Ajax v Juventus, 1973 European Cup Final

[Driver8]

Has someone got themselves a bargain or paid a huge amount for a reprint ?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ajax.....&rt=nc

[1980Cossie]

I spoke to the seller and he gave me the measurements, it seemed to me that it was an original of the Dutch version.
It was not much of a bargain as the last one to sell at auction sold for £1400 and the last one to sell on ebay before the one the other day was similar at £1350. Had the seller done a slightly better advert he could have got a little more for it i suspect. Gone are the days of that programme selling for £2500+

[bielma]

1980Cossie wrote:

I spoke to the seller and he gave me the measurements, it seemed to me that it was an original of the Dutch version. It was not much of a bargain as the last one to sell at auction sold for £1400 and the last one to sell on ebay before the one the other day was similar at £1350. Had the seller done a slightly better advert he could have got a little more for it i suspect. Gone are the days of that programme selling for £2500+

Can any of you experienced members tell me what are differences between official programme and a reprint.Do they have same number of pages?Is the word reprint written somewhere, if yes on which page?I was told they have different measurements, what are the measurements of official programme, what of a reprint(please tell me in centimeters)?

[1980Cossie]

Originals:

16.0cm x 23.3cm for original with small lettering on front (Italian VIP)

16.3cm x 23.5cm (approx) varies as can be up to 23.7cm dependent on the way it was folded for originals with large lettering on front (Dutch VIP)

Reproductions:

A known reproduction is 15.7cm x 22.8cm & also there is a 16.6cm x 23.3cm (Serbian Pirate)

Reproductions are either smaller or longer (one way) and/or smaller the other way than the original sizes.

There is also a 1970's reproduction (Italian VIP) but i don't have the size, however doubt it is the exact same size as the original

Reproductions and reprints don't carry the words reprint anywhere and the originals and reprints all have the same number of pages.

Also note i have seen an original with only 1 staple and also originals with 2 staples.

I know a collector in Sweden who has both originals and can test the papers elements (similar to DNA) using a professional digital scanner, he can verify this programme and offer a report which can help with a future sale.

[thegers]

i used to collect European Finals and the only time i ever saw this Programme was in the Ajax museum

[bielma]

1980Cossie wrote:

Originals: 16.0cm x 23.3cm for original with small lettering on front (Italian VIP) 16.3cm x 23.5cm (approx) varies as can be up to 23.7cm dependent on the way it was folded for originals with large lettering on front (Dutch VIP) Reproductions: A known reproduction is 15.7cm x 22.8cm & also there is a 16.6cm x 23.3cm (Serbian Pirate) Reproductions are either smaller or longer (one way) and/or smaller the other way than the original sizes. There is also a 1970's reproduction (Italian VIP) but i don't have the size, however doubt it is the exact same size as the original Reproductions and reprints don't carry the words reprint anywhere and the originals and reprints all have the same number of pages. Also note i have seen an original with only 1 staple and also originals with 2 staples. I know a collector in Sweden who has both originals and can test the papers elements (similar to DNA) using a professional digital scanner, he can verify this programme and offer a report which can help with a future sale.

Thank you very much 1980Cossie.You really know a lot about this programme

[bielma]

1980Cossie wrote:

Originals: 16.0cm x 23.3cm for original with small lettering on front (Italian VIP) 16.3cm x 23.5cm (approx) varies as can be up to 23.7cm dependent on the way it was folded for originals with large lettering on front (Dutch VIP) Reproductions: A known reproduction is 15.7cm x 22.8cm & also there is a 16.6cm x 23.3cm (Serbian Pirate) Reproductions are either smaller or longer (one way) and/or smaller the other way than the original sizes. There is also a 1970's reproduction (Italian VIP) but i don't have the size, however doubt it is the exact same size as the original Reproductions and reprints don't carry the words reprint anywhere and the originals and reprints all have the same number of pages. Also note i have seen an original with only 1 staple and also originals with 2 staples. I know a collector in Sweden who has both originals and can test the papers elements (similar to DNA) using a professional digital scanner, he can verify this programme and offer a report which can help with a future sale.

I sent you a message asking about the prices, received no answer.Maybe you prefer to talk about that publicly.No problem.I would like to know the prices of original ones(Italian and Dutch VIP) as well as prices of reproduction and a Serbian pirate.I am a young collector,I am almost sure I cannot afford the originals, still would like to know the price tag(for a reproduction and a Serbian pirate too).
Many thanks in advance.

[CodeXIII]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AJAX.....2201926098

I reckon this is the Serbian pirate version?

page 4 and page 7 transposed by the blue adidas advert (most successful teams and countries wrong order)
The centre page and several of the adverts don't have a box around them.

apart from that it looks like the original ...



any further input on telling these apart?

[overlap]

CodeXIII wrote:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AJAX-JUVENTUS-30-05-1973-Programme-Final-EC-Cup-TOP-RARE/232201926098?_trksid=p2047675.c100013.m1986&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D40794%26meid%3D93b73b4fa9014868a09d465daa75e998%26pid%3D100013%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D232201926098 I reckon this is the Serbian pirate version? page 4 and page 7 transposed by the blue adidas advert (most successful teams and countries wrong order) The centre page and several of the adverts don't have a box around them. apart from that it looks like the original ... any further input on telling these apart?

That is definitely the Serbian reproduction. One clue is in the Uefa roundel that is in the top right corner. In the original the roundel covers two rows/ decks of the word Juventus. In the Serbian copy it only covers one and a little bit. Also the paper in this pirate one on Ebay is also much much glossier than the original.

[1980Cossie]

Yes definitely the Serbian pirate. The seller knows it is too, i let him know. We spoke a couple of times before i told him but now he can't speak English anymore.

[CodeXIII]

someone's going to be disappointed. £102 bid is live and above his reserve.

thank's for the input, will avoid!

[CodeXIII]

also, the 'o' divider between Ajax and Juventus is on the black background only not overlapping the red and black as with originals.

cheap tat being sold for £100 !

[overlap]

Here is another of those tatty fakes, which are worth about a fiver at most, which went for £287 on Ebay in November.
It has become quite a nice little cottage industry in the Balkans

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AJAX.....&rt=nc

[clowther99]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/406592573959

Researched long and hard to try and get a feeling on whether this was a genuine one. Think it was but could easily be wrong and not me who bought it.

[mattHolmfirth]

It was me that bought it, I'm collecting rarer European Finals for my 16 year old Son. With a 20-30 year hold for them predicting they go back to where they were in a cycle in that sort of time scale. I looked into it as much as I could and I'm pretty sure I've bought an Italian VIP edition at a very bottom price.
It was started at £400 where I bid and had nothing else until 45 seconds to go where 2 dealers bid, I left it until 5 seconds and put my max bid in which I thought £1100 would be about the right price. I was pleasantly surprised to get it for £809, over the moon actually.

[Turin21041999]

Great find mattHolmfirth if original. It's always good to hear stories like that.

In 1979 I remember seeing a Maltese edition of the 1973 European Cup Final and I have never seen it since. I have looked on the centrespot website and it isn't listed there. From memory I think it was still believed in 1979 by many collectors that no official programme existed from the match. I may be wrong on that point.

The person who had the programme also had a Maltese edition of the Italy v England 1973 match in Turin, which was played two weeks later.

These were both decent productions and followed the same style and format. They were never intended to be a reprint of anything, they just produced their own style of programme. The story was that the person who had these programmes had friends in Malta and these had been sent over to him. Both editions had been on sale in Malta around that time.