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Does a programme exist?
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Does a programme exist?

 
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Boroflag



Joined: 12 Nov 2009
Posts: 163
Location: Middlesbrough

PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:05 pm 
Post subject: Does a programme exist?
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Evening all,
I am looking into whether a programme exists for

European Cup Winners Cup Semi-Final 2nd Leg
Sporting Lisbon 1-1 Lyon

21-04-1964

If it indeed does, does anyone have a copy to sell?

Thanks in advance
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cardiff55



Joined: 22 Jun 2009
Posts: 475

PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:37 pm 
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I know my club, Cardiff City, played Sporting around that time in the CWC. There was no programme, I think Lisbon issued a monthly or weekly newspaper.
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Driver8



Joined: 15 May 2011
Posts: 103

PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:41 pm 
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I doubt very much there was a dedicated programme for the match mentioned.

A stated above Sporting did publish a weekly / monthly newspaper:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/sporting-lisbon-newspaper1969-ARSENAL-FC-LONDON-UEFA-FAIRS-CUP-PROGRAMME/294024474726?hash=item4475397066:g:BO4AAOSw-ntfWS-L

As this is numbered 982 it does suggest there might have been something issued in 1964.
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manchesterunitedman1



Joined: 17 Jan 2010
Posts: 3081
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:45 am 
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Well you can make up your own mind....

Manchester United beat Sporting at home and then went to Lisbon and got thumped 5-0 after Denis Law headed against the bar at 0-0!. This is what came from the match and i have always been wary that this may have been produced by a 3rd party-you judge as the condition has always been immaculate but there is the possibility that Mr. Eddie Philips of the then Manchester Programme Shop had purchased a load from Sporting yet you never see a copy that looks like it is "match used", so as I said before, you decide.....

https://flic.kr/p/dHKS9X
https://flic.kr/p/dHKRZz
https://flic.kr/p/dHKREg
https://flic.kr/p/oVFuzn

The tickets ARE originals!
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Driver8



Joined: 15 May 2011
Posts: 103

PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:02 pm 
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Match stats can be found here, which includes another copy of a ticket (scroll down)
https://www.wikisporting.com/index.php?title=1964-03-18_SPORTING_%E2%80%93_Manchester_United

I note on the inside cover of the Sporting v Manchester United programme it has suplemento ao no 684. The Sporting v Arsenal newspaper (26/11/1969) currently on ebay is numbered 982.

Assuming these numbers refer to the same club publications and that it was issued weekly: 982 - 684 = 298, which is approx 6 years, which doesn't quite fit in with the period March 1964 and November 1969 ?

Not sure if this helps in anyway in proving it's provenance (or not)?

Any thoughts?
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manchesterunitedman1



Joined: 17 Jan 2010
Posts: 3081
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:20 pm 
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Driver8 wrote:
Match stats can be found here, which includes another copy of a ticket (scroll down)
https://www.wikisporting.com/index.php?title=1964-03-18_SPORTING_%E2%80%93_Manchester_United

I note on the inside cover of the Sporting v Manchester United programme it has suplemento ao no 684. The Sporting v Arsenal newspaper (26/11/1969) currently on ebay is numbered 982.

Assuming these numbers refer to the same club publications and that it was issued weekly: 982 - 684 = 298, which is approx 6 years, which doesn't quite fit in with the period March 1964 and November 1969 ?

Not sure if this helps in anyway in proving it's provenance (or not)?

Any thoughts?


However if it was issued fortnightly then it does fit in on the basis of home and away's each week.

If this was a pirate or a boot legged version then the attention to detail in Portuguese would not been there, I suspect they were all Imported just as Eddie Phillips Imported every mint conditioned Eintracht Frankfurt v Rangers in 1959-60 Season and also the other matches Eintracht played at home in the European Cup with Yellow-Pink-Green-Orange-Blue covers that have ever appeared in the UK, he also was innovative and ahead of everyone one else having the nouse to forage out the European away's, he did this also in 1966 when United were at Benfica[El Beatle image of Georgie Best] and a few other matches in Germany notably Eintracht Frankfurt in 1963-NEVER NOT seen anything but mint conditioned copies. I suspect he never brought in that many maybe a few hundred a match perhaps, but they were just pence back then.

However, your earlier post has convinced me that the Sporting -MU is the real deal! Bow

oh and by the way there was no need to mention let alone show the United collapse! Laughing
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Twitter: @manyuman1

To see 18,000+ original images relating to Newton Heath & Manchester Utd 1878-2021 then visit www.flickr.com/photos/manchesterunitedman1/sets to see entire uploads.

1000's more images to be uploaded, to view the latest uploads go to www.flickr.com/photos/manchesterunitedman1/

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Last edited by manchesterunitedman1 on Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Merseman



Joined: 24 Apr 2014
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:21 pm 
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Would it have continued weekly in closed season? Might explain difference.
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manchesterunitedman1



Joined: 17 Jan 2010
Posts: 3081
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:27 pm 
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Merseman wrote:
Would it have continued weekly in closed season? Might explain difference.


Benfica issued their own magazine monthly highlighting the recent games and the ones coming up and discussing everything about the club from the different Sports they played beside football. Benfica was the star of Portugese football, Sporting Lisbon were the poor relations way back then, so numbering their programme may have been how they operated?>

https://flic.kr/p/69ZdbS

https://flic.kr/p/6cofWD
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Leslie Millman
Twitter: @manyuman1

To see 18,000+ original images relating to Newton Heath & Manchester Utd 1878-2021 then visit www.flickr.com/photos/manchesterunitedman1/sets to see entire uploads.

1000's more images to be uploaded, to view the latest uploads go to www.flickr.com/photos/manchesterunitedman1/

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Driver8



Joined: 15 May 2011
Posts: 103

PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:22 am 
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I've had another look at the programme and I can't find anything to suggest a pirate.
The style of the pen pics and team picture do resemble that of the Old Trafford leg, but that might be what Sporting were trying to emulate.
The 'welcome' page is in both Portuguese and English. The English wording appears to be a 'translation' from the Portuguese. It doesn't look like this emanated from someone with English as their first language.
There is no cover price but this could be explained by it being a supplement to the newspaper and not sold separately.
The officials are mentioned on the team page. The referee was Kitabdjian (apologies to any Leeds fans for mentioning his name!). The two linesmen are listed as Boudon and Norbert. Boudon is most likely Maurice Bondon. I couldn't find anything for Norbert. It is possible this was his forename and not his surname?
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maurice_Bondon
Would someone trying to produce a pirate in 1964 had access to details for the officials? Doubtful.
My opinion is the programme isn't a pirate. At first glance it may appear so but this is just because it stands out as being something not typically Portuguese.

Portugal has never been renowned for it's matchday programmes usually preferring newspaper issues on a periodic basis, as appears to be the case with Sporting.
There does seem to have been some sort of attempt by some clubs to introduce matchday programmes to the game around the late 1960's. I have several for European, international, domestic league and cup matches circa 1967 - 1969. They don't appear to have continued much passed this period and I would assume they weren't deemed a success.
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