Alternative buying/selling platform?? PLEASE READ!!!

[PABLO76]

I know this subject has been bought up many times before, including a few asking very recently of other ways than here and Ebay to shift programmes etc.

I am interested to know what are peoples thoughts on the best way for you personally to sell your programmes and memorabilia.

I have the wheels set firmly in motion to provide a new website which will hopefully solve this problem and was looking for a bit of free market research and where better than the members here who between us probably know every nook and cranny of the collecting world.

How would you prefer to list your stuff, set price with an offers section or 99p/50p/10p??? start and open auction style?

How would you like to pay for this? Annual subscription? a price per item listed? or a small percentage of the selling fee?

Any info, advice or feedback will be greatly appreciated and every reply fully taken on board. Afterall, I am hoping if this takes off, that it will benefit every football programme/badge/shirt/memorabilia collector here and beyond.

If it suits you, please by all means PM me.
Cheers for now, Paul.

[RobertD]

HI

the problem you have is that lots of other people has already done the samething, we seem to have lots of programme/ticket websites all owned by different people. What we need is one site that perhaps picks up a feed from these others sites so we only have to search the one site.
The issue is everyone wants to do their own thing and they don't realise that if everyone works together, we could produce one site that could seriously rival ebay for football stuff.

I think to get most website owners and dealers to list on one site, we would need a site that does not charge listing or selling fees but a one off yearly fee of maybe 15 pounds.

[PABLO76]

Thanks for your thoughts Robert.

Might I add that this would have the full capabilities of being an auction style site like Ebay but would centre around what sellers and buyers want most and that seems to be to sell at a set price and buy without massive premiums.

As I said I'm just trying to gauge peoples preferences and make sure that if and when this takes off it will be worth while for buyers and sellers alike.

[ashburton-grove]

The problem with football programmes is that the majority of them are common. So when I used to sell regularly on ebay I had to relist an item up to ten times before it sold, e.g. Watford v Luton 1980s..no offence Watford or Luton supporters.
For me to join I would want unlimited relists, unlimited listings and only one fee at the end, e.g. 10% final value. But make sure there is a price limit like ebay, because you'll end up with hundreds of Arsenal v Anybody 1965 priced at £4.99 and they'll never sell and you'll have one website full of over priced tat.
I wouldn't join if there was a yearly fee either, I don't sell much and the site might not work as good as ebay.
Most programmes on ebay sell for 99p and postage is about that too, so if you could cater for the small time seller like me and charge me 10p if my item sold I'd be glad to join.
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[paulo]

I am with Ashburton here. I mainly use ebay or this forum to sell my excess programmes and ticket stubs that I get in job lots when I am after only one or two items. So as you can see I am not a dealer, just trying to raise a few £££s to fund my next purchases.

I am normally selling somewhere between 400 and 500 items on ebay and just relist on free listing days. I normally shift between 15 and 25 items so paying a yearly fee would not appeal. Mostly at 99p - £3.

I have tried ebid but failed to get a single sale. As much as we all hate ebay, its the only site that gets regular results.

Collectors that are not as serious as many on here, dip in and out of the hobby, may struggle to find a site unless it has been very well advertised.

[Rafehod]

Hi Pablo

Its great that you are attempting to offer a new way for people to sell programmes and I applaud you for that as there are too few realistic streams to do this.

As previously mentioned Ebid is as useless as underpants to a dolphin and others who have tried end up listing their own programmes only as no one else joins them.

The costs of a worthy site I believe would be high although I am not an expert in this field believe me but had a small unrelated site a number of years ago. I and others would want to upload photos with each listing and this would increase bandwidth and your monthly running costs markedly a site carrying say at least 50000 - 100000 photo images would be expensive me thinks especially adding auction and buy it now facilities and large membership details, possible shop facilities, easy uploading facilities, advertising costs etc etc

My own preferences to list on such a site would be no upfront fees or relisting fees and 10% of a final value fee if sells, but Like stated earlier you would get a load of tat on the site probably duplicated many times. Its a difficult one but best of luck and I would definately support if traffic brings sales. I would also be willing to place a flyer for your site in with any programmes I sell on Ebay to raise awareness of the site as I believe others would also do on here if you forward me a some and could be a cheaper way to advertise.

Thanks
Martin

[kcs]

Personally I don't think the 10% final sale fee for eBay is to bad, so something with a similar price would be good.

The listing fee is a little bit of an annoyance but at least you have the option of listing something at 99p, however, your not guaranteed to get a reasonable price for the item. So, if you list at a higher price your already occurring costs, if this can be cleared or minimised to say 5p an item I would again be happy with this. This sort of pricing strategy may also reduce the amount of 'run of the mill' items as the mark up is not as high as it could be.

Paypal fees do annoy me but I am guessing as stated previously we have the choice of accepting a cheque.

One thing that you will need to do to compete with eBay on this front is to generate enough exposure to attract both buyers and sellers, something eBay has in abundance.
I thought this site would rival eBay in terms of buying/selling programmes but I have advertised some semi-rare items and had little if no interest at all - and this site has way over 1000+ members.

I wish you the best and will observe with a keen interest as both a buyer and a seller.
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Showcase your collection in an online programme guide!
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[paulo]

KCS - Interesting comments about this site. In my opinion there are two types on here, those that get into the spirit of the site and want to help other members out and those that act like dealers* and pounce on every post trying to get a sale at inflated prices.

*before you all jump on me I am not saying that all dealers are bad, just some people on here want to hold out for top prices.

[kcs]

paulo wrote:

KCS - Interesting comments about this site. In my opinion there are two types on here, those that get into the spirit of the site and want to help other members out and those that act like dealers* and pounce on every post trying to get a sale at inflated prices. *before you all jump on me I am not saying that all dealers are bad, just some people on here want to hold out for top prices.

Don't get me wrong, I love this site and the helpfulness of 95% of members, but although I try and sell stuff on here - I try and not lose site into what the true member of the forum is all about
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Showcase your collection in an online programme guide!
Display your research in a comprehensive history archive!

[Tynie Topics]

Personally, I think the ship has sailed as far a viable alternative to ebay is concerned, it has the market well and truly cornered, and as a consequence, all of us by the short and curlies when it comes to fees.

Where ebay excels is attracting sellers who are not programme collectors, people who have found programmes in grandads loft and listed them on ebay along with their old CD’s to see if they get anything for them. Before ebay, they could have ended up in the bin or the local charity shop.

With a programme specific site, you won’t attract many of these types of sellers, you will see the same old faces selling the same old stuff at the same old prices.

The auction format is also the big attraction (not Buy It Now), it’s the thrill of the chase and the hope you end up with a bargain. How much would it cost to establish a site with such auction features as ebay? No idea, but I doubt it will be cheap.

Don’t want to piss on your chips, but we’ve seen these sites come and go and unless there is decent money behind the concept, you will have a difficult job in denting ebays trade.
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[sharrowblade]

Tynie Topics wrote:

Personally, I think the ship has sailed as far a viable alternative to ebay is concerned, it has the market well and truly cornered, and as a consequence, all of us by the short and curlies when it comes to fees. Where ebay excels is attracting sellers who are not programme collectors, people who have found programmes in grandads loft and listed them on ebay along with their old CD’s to see if they get anything for them. Before ebay, they could have ended up in the bin or the local charity shop. With a programme specific site, you won’t attract many of these types of sellers, you will see the same old faces selling the same old stuff at the same old prices. The auction format is also the big attraction (not Buy It Now), it’s the thrill of the chase and the hope you end up with a bargain. How much would it cost to establish a site with such auction features as ebay? No idea, but I doubt it will be cheap. Don’t want to piss on your chips, but we’ve seen these sites come and go and unless there is decent money behind the concept, you will have a difficult job in denting ebays trade.

Bang on, Tynie. Spot on from every aspect.

Sorry Paul, but as Tynie says the time has gone, the horse has bolted already as it were. When ebay began there was nothing like it, and they very quickly realised that they had to broaden the range of categorys which enabled them to secure millions in the form of venture capital.
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A Sheffield United Programme guide

[sharrowblade]

PABLO76 wrote:

and where better than the members here who between us probably know every nook and cranny of the collecting world.

Sorry Paul, I think you're overestimating the knowledge of many of the members on this forum, who quite frankly outside the knowledge of their own club know literally 'SWEET FA' about collecting.
_________________
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A Sheffield United Programme guide

[Eddie Reeve]

Quote:

Piss on your chips

- Love it

I have to agree with the other posters, unless you've got millions to spare I can't see how you you can rival Ebay.

Having said that I'm surprised Ebid hasn't been more successful - the site seems to work and I would have thought it would be an ideal place to sell low value items

[craig]

Tynie Topics wrote:

Personally, I think the ship has sailed as far a viable alternative to ebay is concerned, it has the market well and truly cornered, and as a consequence, all of us by the short and curlies when it comes to fees. Where ebay excels is attracting sellers who are not programme collectors, people who have found programmes in grandads loft and listed them on ebay along with their old CD’s to see if they get anything for them. Before ebay, they could have ended up in the bin or the local charity shop. With a programme specific site, you won’t attract many of these types of sellers, you will see the same old faces selling the same old stuff at the same old prices. The auction format is also the big attraction (not Buy It Now), it’s the thrill of the chase and the hope you end up with a bargain. How much would it cost to establish a site with such auction features as ebay? No idea, but I doubt it will be cheap. Don’t want to piss on your chips, but we’ve seen these sites come and go and unless there is decent money behind the concept, you will have a difficult job in denting ebays trade.

This post is spot on and i couldnt sum it it better if i wrote 10,000 words on the subject.

This site is rather busy and an auction on here would just be the most plain stupid idea - even if you had 1000 visitors every day a 10 day auction would have so much little interest that you'd be unlikely any item would be sold/have more than one bid.

As for set pricing... Thats already in place on here and I accept it could be improved but i think the standard of just listing in the forums works better than this anyway.

[grantham]

Add my two cents, the difference and sucess of a site is determined by two things in my opinion, offering a product that no one else has or at a better price.

Compare ebay to the numerous book selling websites, I think a more niche market programme website COULD work if you met either or both of the above criteria.

For example, buying from a programme website that offers the Cup finals 50p or a £1 cheaper than ebay would certainly attract buyers (I know, I've done it)

For me, the reason I buy from ebay is simple, if I need a programme and it's within the budget I'm willing to spend on that programme, I will bid/BIN. I'm sure the rest of you are the same.

Repeat that process with more programmes from more people and no reason the idea couldn't work. I think we need to increase the amount of 'new collectors' that join the hobby, but as a group that would be quite easy using ebay as marketing as much as a selling tool as well.

How much work is it to give the buyer of ALL your programmes a webaddress ?

[manchesterunitedman1]

Tynie Topics wrote:

Personally, I think the ship has sailed as far a viable alternative to ebay is concerned, it has the market well and truly cornered, and as a consequence, all of us by the short and curlies when it comes to fees. Where ebay excels is attracting sellers who are not programme collectors, people who have found programmes in grandads loft and listed them on ebay along with their old CD’s to see if they get anything for them. Before ebay, they could have ended up in the bin or the local charity shop. With a programme specific site, you won’t attract many of these types of sellers, you will see the same old faces selling the same old stuff at the same old prices. The auction format is also the big attraction (not Buy It Now), it’s the thrill of the chase and the hope you end up with a bargain. How much would it cost to establish a site with such auction features as ebay? No idea, but I doubt it will be cheap. Don’t want to piss on your chips, but we’ve seen these sites come and go and unless there is decent money behind the concept, you will have a difficult job in denting ebays trade.

A-1000% accurate-EBAY RULES OK!

[PABLO76]

Ok, some very good comments and thoughts here, thankyou everyone who has put in their 2 cents!

Anyone else who has any thoughts, recomendations or otherwise please tell me, in the meantime I am gathering as much info on the ins and outs of the site as possible and will let people know what would be available to you, if and when it starts up.

[manchesterunitedman1]

paulo wrote:

I am with Ashburton here. I mainly use ebay or this forum to sell my excess programmes and ticket stubs that I get in job lots when I am after only one or two items. So as you can see I am not a dealer, just trying to raise a few £££s to fund my next purchases. I am normally selling somewhere between 400 and 500 items on ebay and just relist on free listing days. I normally shift between 15 and 25 items so paying a yearly fee would not appeal. Mostly at 99p - £3. I have tried ebid but failed to get a single sale. As much as we all hate ebay, its the only site that gets regular results. Collectors that are not as serious as many on here, dip in and out of the hobby, may struggle to find a site unless it has been very well advertised.

I think you have to speak for yourself here-NOT ME, EBAY-I love it and it is the best aid to any collector there has EVER been.
My collection has grown immensely since ebay was formed, and yes it is not perfect for sure with rogue sellers, shill bidders, private auctions which condones every known bit of trickery, but the fact remains Ebay has given the power of the buyer BACK to the buyer.

Let us debate the alternative to ebay, Programme Monthly and the ads in there-[now that the Editor has gone we may just see a reduction of the shit he filled 30 pages with each month] but I do not expect too really.

I was getting cheated 40 years ago sending away postal orders to dealers and getting back what they wanted to send to me, not always what i ordered but what suited them and the same happened a few months ago when i actually spotted something on an ad in PM from one of the country's biggest dealers-maybe he is the biggest?, i bid for 2 items , i made an offer to pay UP TO XXX for each one, after the auction date closed i was contacted to say i had lost out on one but won the other one-so i paid and received my programme with the "slight mark" it was advertised as, it arrived not with a slight mark but with two large marks on the cover top and bottom where glue had gotten on it and it had been stuck to some other paper!, so i rang up threw this rubbish back at them and that was that-a waste of my time, my efforts and all i was told was " we are very busy and dont have the time to look carefully at everything" and this was an item for £80 so i cannot imagine what you would get buying a slightly marked item for eight quid to look like.

Who buys anything blind these days-very few of us, well I will not anymore and that was the first time in 10 years i had done this, ebay has given me as the buyer the power back-I can see it and if i dont like what i see i walk away, if i want more information or images i can ask quite easilly, as a buyer it is now so easy to complete the transaction with sending the payment via Pay Pal-if the seller prefers a cheque i can do that as well costs a stamp and a few minutes to send it.

As I am not a seller then i am not involved in the continual debates about the fees they charge or Paypal charges as to be honest i could not give a hoot, any seller with a modicum of acumen should allow a % within their starting price to cover, if they are peeing around at 99p but hope topull in 100+ then you have as a seller shot yourself in the foot and the arse both at the same time!.

Everytthing will find it's level in the market place, ebay has been responsible for finding tons and tons of stuff that members of the public would have slung out, like the woman who found a suitcase of pre-war and war time programmes in her Uncle Bills loft when he croaked it-she was going to sling them in a skip put put one at random on ebay and drew £345quid-now she ekes them out when a holiday is coming up or a big bill or she wants something for herself-wonderfull story and we as the buyers would have lost all of that stuff to bin bags and the waste bins! How much stuff in the 1960-1970-1980'shad been slung out till members of the public became "mini dealers" bootsales and antique fairs are on their knees due to ebay, I suspect the two most popoular words spoken during the beginning og this 21st centruy are EBAY and GOOGLE.

STILL IF ANYONE WANTS TO GO BACK TO THE BAD OLD DAYS OF PAYS YER MONEY AND YOU GET WHAT YOU GET[A LOTTERY] THEN YOU MUST BE CRACKERS!

I bet there is not a collector in the world who can say that ebay has not benefited their collections with whatever it is they have an interest in collecting and similarly how many of us have sold stuff on ebay to free up space to get cash to buy what we really want[off ebay!].

Ebay-the peoples auctions! Leslie Millman-manchesterunitedman1
www.flickr.com/photos/manchesterunitedman1/

[Tynie Topics]

Leslie has it pretty much spot on for me.

I often think whether I would still be collecting programmes if it weren't for ebay (I started collecting long before the internet) and I have to say I probably would not, frustrated by poor descriptions of items (no pics remember), questionable prices, and an bidding system designed to fleece you for as much cash as possible even if you were the only bidder.

I think in the past, many dealers have been guilty of effectively price fixing (strong words, but its my belief). Programmes which I thought I would never have a hope in hell of owning have turned out to have been not so super rare afterall and are now available at a quarter of the price dealers used to price them at in their catalgoues. That would never have happened were it not for ebay.

Same goes for the offers system, which in my view is frankly a corrupt way of selling programmes - although to be fair everyone knows the rules prior to bidding. Ebay again has blown that away, and the offers system is thankfully dieing a slow death. The Sports Programmes offers list is a relic of the past.

For all its faults on fees and questionable rules, ebay has been like a hurricane straight through the comfy little world of programme dealing.

I would go as far as to say thay if it weren't for ebay, programme collecting as a hobby would be on its knees.

Finally, I'm all for a competitor to ebay, competition is good, but the new kid on the block will need to have very deep pockets and a very good marketing startegy. Anything less and, well...........you're fired.
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[RobertD]

Ebay has the most items thats for sure but most of the stuff for sale is modern and worthless.

I think a site like this one should have a custom google search box that only searches the sites of top quality dealers/traders, I tried this last night and managed to create one that worked very well.
This would enable a buyer to search all good traders at once, ok so we would not make any money from it but it would be a usefull tool.