Scotland's 3rd best club side

[oldbolt]

How poor a showing was that against Tottenham? I read a comment from a Hibs fan who said he should have enjoyed Hearts humilation but instead he was embarrassed for Scottish football.

Where would Hearts be in the English league system?
Definitely not as strong as the likes of West Ham or Birmingham who had an impressive result in Portugal.Would Sheffield United have rolled over like that against Spurs at Bramhall Lane? I doubt it.
Somewhere in mid table/lower half of England's 3rd tier is where I reckon they'd be.And that's being kind to them going off last night's performance.I just think that with their greater resources they would be able to hold their own with Bury and Rochdale over a full season.

[JJPROGRAMMES]

Bad news a head for Scottish football in general in european competitions, this year they were ranked 16th in Europe and at the moment their ranked 28th for next season which means the SPL Champions will have to start in the 2nd Qualifing round of the champions league & the Europa league teams will start in the 2nd & 3rd qualifing rounds.

(If you google "uefa coefficients" select the second one down (kassiesa) click on it then click on country ranking then top right 2013).

[ForestMick]

As you say Kevin, bad news ahead for Scottish football. Sadly, none of the sides covered themselves in glory last night, and like Norn Irn, it will be a long slow decline in Europe for Scottish football unless something changes soon.
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[Auchinleckian]

The professional game in Scotland is p*ss poor, and has been for many years now. Left behind when television monies came in, because they thought they were bigger than they were. Dominated by just two clubs since time immemorial, bar a brief flirtation with the New Old Firm, it's hardly surprising that the vast majority of the population couldn't give a toss about it.
I saw Craig Levein, the Scotland manager on BBC Scotland news last night saying that because Hearts had already played a number of competitive games this season, including the previous round, that he expected them to get a good result against a Spurs side who hadn't played yet. Speaks volumes really.
Look at the gates in the Scottish Premier League, where if you take the Old Firm out along with Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen and Dundee United, and you're lucky to crack 5,000 amongst the others. Coupled with barmy plans to reduce the league to 10 teams and it doesn't take a genius to work out that the game's in a perilous state.
Strange thing is, there isn't the leakage into watching a semi decent product at the top end of the Junior game, where attendances are also dwindling. Never mind, I've got another Scottish Cup jaunt this year with the mighty 'Bot. EEKA PEEKA!

[cfcmartin1965]

Guernsey have been accepted into the Combined Counties League in the lower reaches of the non league pyramid so maybe some of the SPL clubs might want to try their luck at this level[/img]

[Tynie Topics]

I was there, it wasn't good, but lets look at the facts before belittling the Scottish game.

Spurs get, what, £90/100m in TV money per season? Hearts get less than £1m (Championship sides get far more money from TV deals than the SPL can ever hope to).

That, frankly, is the difference between top Scottish and English sides, Sky have tipped the balance forever. Not even the Old Firm can really challenge the top half of the EPL, the rest would be lucky to sit mid table in the Championship, the financial disparity is gaping.

For all the ills of Scottish football and talk of 10/12 team leagues (completely daft), give Hearts (or Dundee Utd, or Hibs, or Motherwell) 5 seasons worth of EPL money, and we wont be getting beat 5-0 at home by Spurs.
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[Tynie Topics]

Auchinleckian wrote:

Never mind, I've got another Scottish Cup jaunt this year with the mighty 'Bot. EEKA PEEKA!

Of course the irony is, you follow what is the equivalent Old Firm of Junior football, more fans and resources than almost anyone else......
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[Auchinleckian]

What you mustn't forget though is that Talbot are, essentially, a community club. The money, what little there is, comes from the fans (and the players and management) via sponsorship of games, and the 100 club.

The 100 club is a fund raising activity that costs £10 per month, for 10 months of the year. The fans pay in, all the first team squad and management do, and the committee. They get nothing back, but it gives our manager, "Pep" Sloan, money to move in the transfer market, to recontract players when their terms are coming to an end, and for various other contractual matters. There's no prize draws or the like with the club, everybody's annual £100 goes into the team pot. For a club that resides in a village with less than 5,000 inhabitants you will appreciate that this (fairly substantial) source of money is hugely important to the club.

Despite this financial input, wages have dropped over the last few years. You can imagine the position that a successful club like Talbot would be in without this support from ALL concerned. Some other Junior clubs have followed Talbot's lead in fund raising in this manner. I doubt you' get it in the SPL though as everyone kens that it would just be swallowed up in player's wages.
EEKA PEEKA!

[Bremner4]

Scotland produced some world class players in the 60's, 70's and 80's, including two of the greatest players to play for Leeds, Bremner and Strachan.

There was a 'golden period' when due to no European football in England, Souness took several England internationals to Rangers.

Could you imagine Joe Hart, Ashley Cole, Frank Lampard et al going to play in the SPL nowadays? Never.

As well as SKY money killing the English game they have also killed the Scottish game, they have a lot to answer for in my opinion.

Last night was men against boys (I hate Spurs and wanted Hearts to win), after three minutes you knew it was going to be a rout. Leeds had a player on loan from Spurs last season, Jake Livermore - he was rubbish at Leeds but against Hearts he was made to look world class.

Troubled times for the SPL and all below them, and it is a shame
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Little Billy Bremner is the captain of the crew, for the sake of Leeds United he would break himself in two, his hair is red and fuzzy and his body's black and blue as Leeds go marching on!

http://www.lufootballprogrammes.com

[Tynie Topics]

Auchinleckian wrote:

What you mustn't forget though is that Talbot are, essentially, a community club. The money, what little there is, comes from the fans (and the players and management) via sponsorship of games, and the 100 club. The 100 club is a fund raising activity that costs £10 per month, for 10 months of the year. The fans pay in, all the first team squad and management do, and the committee. They get nothing back, but it gives our manager, "Pep" Sloan, money to move in the transfer market, to recontract players when their terms are coming to an end, and for various other contractual matters. There's no prize draws or the like with the club, everybody's annual £100 goes into the team pot. For a club that resides in a village with less than 5,000 inhabitants you will appreciate that this (fairly substantial) source of money is hugely important to the club. Despite this financial input, wages have dropped over the last few years. You can imagine the position that a successful club like Talbot would be in without this support from ALL concerned. Some other Junior clubs have followed Talbot's lead in fund raising in this manner. I doubt you' get it in the SPL though as everyone kens that it would just be swallowed up in player's wages. EEKA PEEKA!

I get all that, as you say a lot of clubs fundraise in a similar manner, but you cant get away from the fact that Auchinleck are part of the Old Firm of Junior football, where 90% of other clubs cannot compete, and where you come as close to dominating the Junior Cup as any clubs can get.

My Junior club is a "real" Community Club as recognised by the SFA, and we have 12 teams through all age groups, that's where our money goes and why the team at the top of the tree, the Junior team, rely on youth as we dont have a pot to piss in.

Out of interest, do Talbot have a youth set-up?
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[Tynie Topics]

Bremner4 wrote:

As well as SKY money killing the English game they have also killed the Scottish game, they have a lot to answer for in my opinion.

Money is killing the game throughout Europe.

I read an article in this months When Saturday Comes, where it points out that the current Champions of Germany (Dortmund), Portugal (Porto) and France (Lille) cannot even keep hold of their Championship winning teams for a crack at Europe before the big money from England and Spain comes in to cherry pick their players. The great clubs like Ajax and Benfica cannot even hope to compete in CL these days.

It's a sad day when the fourth placed EPL side is shorter odds to win the Champions League (sic) than the Champions of Germany.
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[Auchinleckian]

Tynie Topics wrote:

Auchinleckian wrote: What you mustn't forget though is that Talbot are, essentially, a community club. The money, what little there is, comes from the fans (and the players and management) via sponsorship of games, and the 100 club. The 100 club is a fund raising activity that costs £10 per month, for 10 months of the year. The fans pay in, all the first team squad and management do, and the committee. They get nothing back, but it gives our manager, "Pep" Sloan, money to move in the transfer market, to recontract players when their terms are coming to an end, and for various other contractual matters. There's no prize draws or the like with the club, everybody's annual £100 goes into the team pot. For a club that resides in a village with less than 5,000 inhabitants you will appreciate that this (fairly substantial) source of money is hugely important to the club. Despite this financial input, wages have dropped over the last few years. You can imagine the position that a successful club like Talbot would be in without this support from ALL concerned. Some other Junior clubs have followed Talbot's lead in fund raising in this manner. I doubt you' get it in the SPL though as everyone kens that it would just be swallowed up in player's wages. EEKA PEEKA! I get all that, as you say a lot of clubs fundraise in a similar manner, but you cant get away from the fact that Auchinleck are part of the Old Firm of Junior football, where 90% of other clubs cannot compete, and where you come as close to dominating the Junior Cup as any clubs can get. My Junior club is a "real" Community Club as recognised by the SFA, and we have 12 teams through all age groups, that's where our money goes and why the team at the top of the tree, the Junior team, rely on youth as we dont have a pot to piss in. Out of interest, do Talbot have a youth set-up?

asfunction:com.greekattic.media.TextLinks.Go,2,0

The above link takes you into the Auchinleck Talbot Boys Club website Tynie. Hopefully the stars of the future.

[RobertD]

lets be honest even Rangers and Celtic would struggle to gain promotion if they were in the English Championship. They would have to play 46 hard fought games per year, week in week out.
In every single league game they would have to play at full concentration for 90 minutes instead of going 3-0 up and cruising.

Rangers and Celtic get plenty of money from Champions league but in recent years both clubs don't seem to be splashing the cash on big signing like they used too, maybe some sort of unofficial gentlemans agreement between them to keep outing going down and profit up, afterall both are virtually assured their Champions League places.
I know its far stretched but their both assured champions league places and both stand a 50% chance of winning the league so why splash out.

[Tynie Topics]

RobertD wrote:

lets be honest even Rangers and Celtic would struggle to gain promotion if they were in the English Championship. They would have to play 46 hard fought games per year, week in week out.

That may be true currently, but give them the equivalent TV income plus their 50/60,000 gates, and you may find that they are actually bigger than most clubs in the EPL.

Quote:

In every single league game they would have to play at full concentration for 90 minutes instead of going 3-0 up and cruising.

They dominate the SPL and have done for the last 26 years, just like Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal have dominated the EPL for the last 20 years (or just Man Utd really 12 out of 19).

Quote:

Rangers and Celtic get plenty of money from Champions league but in recent years both clubs don't seem to be splashing the cash on big signing like they used too, maybe some sort of unofficial gentlemans agreement between them to keep outing going down and profit up, afterall both are virtually assured their Champions League places. I know its far stretched but their both assured champions league places and both stand a 50% chance of winning the league so why splash out.

There was only one Champions League place for Scottish clubs this season.
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[manchesterunitedman1]

Tynie Topics wrote:

I was there, it wasn't good, but lets look at the facts before belittling the Scottish game. Spurs get, what, £90/100m in TV money per season? Hearts get less than £1m (Championship sides get far more money from TV deals than the SPL can ever hope to). That, frankly, is the difference between top Scottish and English sides, Sky have tipped the balance forever. Not even the Old Firm can really challenge the top half of the EPL, the rest would be lucky to sit mid table in the Championship, the financial disparity is gaping. For all the ills of Scottish football and talk of 10/12 team leagues (completely daft), give Hearts (or Dundee Utd, or Hibs, or Motherwell) 5 seasons worth of EPL money, and we wont be getting beat 5-0 at home by Spurs.

It was announced this week that Manchester United received £46.5 million from their appearances in the CHAMPIONS LEAGUE ALONE LAST SEASON WHICH WAS FAR SUPERIOR TO THAT OF BARCELONA DESPITE BARCA WINNING IT! and the reason for this was because it appears Manchester United made more appearances on TV with worldwide screenings. Just as well as the interest the Glazers have laid on the club is £45mill a year!. Both Glasgow's Celtic and Rangers are both world famous clubs known everywhere, but can no longer attract some of the best foreign players any longer as they all want a piece of the English/Spanish action, and whilst Nasri will move in a few days and despite him saying only a few weeks ago " It is not about the money-we footballers are paid a lot these days- I am frustrated at not winning silverware" he will start to play up North for 3 times his salary and join the very lucky band of new Blues on weekly wages that would probably cover EVERY PLAYER in all Scottish Divisions. Not wishing to sound critical of the noisey neighbours but look at the donkeys who cannot get into their side or more to the point they do not want in their side, Adebayor, Santa Cruz both on 6 figs a week, Bellamy, SWP, Bridge all on what 80k a week-totally and utterly mental,and the whole of the Scottish League is virtually potless[bar 4 clubs or so] with some clubs who cannot even print a programme this season as not enuff punters to buy one!

[ForestMick]

RobertD wrote:

Rangers and Celtic get plenty of money from Champions league but in recent years both clubs don't seem to be splashing the cash on big signing like they used too, maybe some sort of unofficial gentlemans agreement between them to keep outing going down and profit up, afterall both are virtually assured their Champions League places. I know its far stretched but their both assured champions league places and both stand a 50% chance of winning the league so why splash out.

Trust me, neither club would be prepared to enter into any sort of agreement with the other, especially not a gentleman's agreement!
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[Tynie Topics]

ForestMick wrote:

Trust me, neither club would be prepared to enter into any sort of agreement with the other, especially not a gentleman's agreement!

Rangers and Celtic co-operate more than you think for their mutual benefit.

Just look at the history of joint shirt sponsorship going back 20/25 years.
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[Auchinleckian]

Talbot top of the league after a stunning 4-1 win away at Arthurlie.
EEKA PEEKA!