Will there ever be another big London fair?

[colchestersid]

I was thinking this over the weekend. As far as I know nothing has been organised since Covid - venue costs, the physical effort of loading and unloading heavy boxes, ULEZ, parking difficulties, National Rail opting out of running most weekends, collectors choosing to stay at home and scour eBay - all of these factors seem to work against the big central fair

But..

I'm sure there could be scope for someone to organise something big - maybe dealers bring along just current season and high value stuff rather than heavy/low value - have more single tables for collectors to sell quality stuff - include card dealers, badges, Panini, Topps, shirts (all the stuff that appeals to younger collectors).

I think the problem with even the Premier, New Year and International fairs were not that they were too big but that they weren't big enough. This country needs an annual football collectors convention to bring everyone together..

[DavidAppleton]

I think the chances of a 'big' fair returning to London is remote due to the reasons given above.

One way forward would be to have a mega collectors convention (to encompass sports memorabilia with perhaps postcards, books, comics, music etc.) at a big venue on the outskirts of London (say Wembley to the north or Croydon to the south).

This would attract high quality dealers and would have a reasonably big advertising budget which in turn would attract the footfall to justify the event.

[EYES OF BLUE]

colchestersid wrote:

I was thinking this over the weekend. As far as I know nothing has been organised since Covid - venue costs, the physical effort of loading and unloading heavy boxes, ULEZ, parking difficulties, National Rail opting out of running most weekends, collectors choosing to stay at home and scour eBay - all of these factors seem to work against the big central fair But.. I'm sure there could be scope for someone to organise something big - maybe dealers bring along just current season and high value stuff rather than heavy/low value - have more single tables for collectors to sell quality stuff - include card dealers, badges, Panini, Topps, shirts (all the stuff that appeals to younger collectors). I think the problem with even the Premier, New Year and International fairs were not that they were too big but that they weren't big enough. This country needs an annual football collectors convention to bring everyone together..

We still need more Programme Fairs throughout the country to carry on attracting new collectors , people still collect football memorabilia , we just need to attract them , Cracking Fair yesterday at Derby by the way , very busy

[gregl2020]

It was only the first 'edition' but hopefully the Essex Retro Football Show can fill part of the gap. It's on the Central Line (Loughton) so well-situated for those in London and the outskirts. Plans for the second event are already underway and I'm hoping the success of the first one will tempt many more people to visit/take a table next time.

[ndg1860]

I do wish all the smaller fairs good luck and there are more and more now that things have settled down after the virus. However, these are little bits and more often than not the same dealers are there.

What I think the initial post was getting at is the need to bring together a much larger selection of dealers, from various parts of the country instead of just nearby. I am heading to Wolves in a month's time in the hope of catching some northern dealers who do not make it to London or close by. I recently went to the fair in Birmingham, but of the few programme dealers, there was basically only one new one for me as the remainder were at another fair in the NE. I am sure it is the same for those who live in the north that they would like to see dealers and others from the south. If we could get a rather large number of dealers together, from throughout the country (including Scotland, Wales and all of Ireland), into one large fair then that would be the ultimate. I never got to go to any of the past London Fairs and so am unknowledgeable of their makeup, but this is what I would envision the "grand" fair to be.

[colchestersid]

The International fair used to have three large conference rooms so about 30 dealers. I'm not sure if that many "traditional" dealers are still in business hence the thought that it gets opened up to other parts of the football collecting community

By the way the London Film Fair is still going strong after nearly 50 years at the Royal National Hotel

https://londonfilmconvention.co.uk/events/

Ultimately what would be great would be a football equivalent of Comic-Con - a major convention centre packed with every type of football history, culture, collecting, exhibits, old players etc. Bit of a pipe dream of course but a definite gap in the market there

[New Forest]

You are probably too young to remember the Boys Own Exhibition - I think it was called that - held at Olympia - I think. To start with the name would have to go. But, it had everything boys collected stamps, cigarette cards and football programmes. I still have Wally Barnes autograph. Could it happen again or have those times gone forever.

[Dorking]

I think that relatively few boys collect what we collect nowadays.

When I was a boy in the 70s and 80s it was stamps, football stickers and programmes, and I made football scrapbooks. Plus stuff out of cereal packets and the like (eg Barratt candy sticks cards). Some friends collected and swapped tea cards but my parents were coffee drinkers only! I'd send off for things like Golly badges and also send off bazooka bubble gum wrappers for items of tat!

And autographs at games I went to.

As I got older I also collected football badges.

Nowadays kids do collect football stickers and cards - that is still a thriving business. But they grow out of it quite young - my son at about 11/12

Some kids (the sort more into computer games than football) like Pokemon cards. I've never understood those an luckily my son never got into them.

My teenage son however has little to no interest in programmes (he liked looking at them when he was under 10)

Maybe he will develop a nostalgia for the past when he is much older - he'll inherit all my collection if he does!

The reality is the majority of collectors of what we enjoy on here are over 40 and probably even over 50

Is cigarette card collecting dying out? Obviously there are no 'new issues' although there might be tea cards still issued (???)

I think some people in 20s and 30s who have money to spend like to collect football shirts - there's a lot of money in that!

So if a fair included badges, shirts, books, even some subbuteo - the full range of stuff then it could be a huge draw

[colchestersid]

By "younger" collectors I also meant guys in there 30's and 40's - startling to think that a 40 year old today probably won't have any memory of football before the Premier League

I agree though - almost all programme collectors are in their 50's and older and it's pointless trying to pitch programme collecting at anyone under 30 (although of course there will always be a few exceptions)

[sharrowblade]

Lets try to address some of the issues already raised in this thread.

Colchester Sid:

'venue costs, the physical effort of loading and unloading heavy boxes, ULEZ, parking difficulties, National Rail opting out of running most weekends, collectors choosing to stay at home and scour eBay - all of these factors seem to work against the big central fair'

This is true. The largest factor is the venue cost. Some of the prices quoted by hotels and football clubs (venues in an ideal world, we'd all like to use) can be very prohibitive

I'm sure there could be scope for someone to organise something big - maybe dealers bring along just current season and high value stuff rather than heavy/low value - have more single tables for collectors to sell quality stuff - include card dealers, badges, Panini, Topps, shirts (all the stuff that appeals to younger collectors).

It takes a lot of time and effort to organize a single regular sized fair.
A good number of times the low value stuff will outsell the so called quality stuff and most fairs already have those items.

This country needs an annual football collectors convention to bring everyone together..

It would be nice, but a convention....is normally financed by large companies with huge budgets, something that our hobby does not have the luxury of.

David Appleton:

One way forward would be to have a mega collectors convention (to encompass sports memorabilia with perhaps postcards, books, comics, music etc.) at a big venue on the outskirts of London (say Wembley to the north or Croydon to the south).

This would attract high quality dealers and would have a reasonably big advertising budget which in turn would attract the footfall to justify the event.

To have a big advertising budget, you have to find someone to finance it and they would expect a return on their investment and there's no guarantee that would attract the footfall


ndg

I am sure it is the same for those who live in the north that they would like to see dealers and others from the south. If we could get a rather large number of dealers together, from throughout the country (including Scotland, Wales and all of Ireland), into one large fair then that would be the ultimate.

I agree its good to have a degree of variety, but dealers who travel, and some of them do travel an extraodinary amount, have to justify it. Again its a nice thought but with current large venue costs the logistics don't add up.

Colchester Sid:

Ultimately what would be great would be a football equivalent of Comic-Con - a major convention centre packed with every type of football history, culture, collecting, exhibits, old players etc. Bit of a pipe dream of course but a definite gap in the market there.


It would be great, but sadly its never going to happen, we haven't got that kind of infastructure in place.

Dorking:

I think some people in 20s and 30s who have money to spend like to collect football shirts - there's a lot of money in that!

So if a fair included badges, shirts, books, even some subbuteo - the full range of stuff then it could be a huge draw.

Regarding the football shirts, yes its currently enjoying a bit of a boom, that's for sure, i've been to few of the retro shirt fairs and enjoyed them, they do have a much younger audience of course, but I've seen racks of shirts at programme fairs and nobody bats an eyelid. All the other stuff are regularly on sale at fairs, and that's good but I'm not sure that it would provide a huge draw.

In conclusion, some interesting ideas and I've probably come across as a bit of a negative Nellie, although I'm trying to be pragmatic.

The Fair scene is much more vibrant now then it has been for years, it is important to realize how challenging it is to put on a fair, to accommodate everybody. As a organizer you want to maximise footfall, its no good having 2 or sometimes 3 on the same day in the same part of the country. So chosen dates are important, You want to make the punters turn up and importantly want to come back. You want to be fair to the dealers, (Cost of stall and experience) you want them to feel that's it been worthwhile for them to travel, (obviously, part of that is down to what items they bring). You have to find a suitable venue, not as easy as you might think, with venue costs spiralling. Ease of parking and travel. Football fixtures, in a city with more than one team you have to take this into account, you don't half of your potential footfall not turning up.

I think it will be a long time before their's an annual fair/event on some kind of super scale unless we are tied into an event that has a compendium of all kinds of activities organized by a big corporation that attracts both young and old alike.
_________________
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sharrowblade/sets
A Sheffield United Programme guide

[Basford United]

New Forest wrote:

You are probably too young to remember the Boys Own Exhibition - I think it was called that - held at Olympia - I think. To start with the name would have to go. But, it had everything boys collected stamps, cigarette cards and football programmes. I still have Wally Barnes autograph. Could it happen again or have those times gone forever.

Can just about remember them, fantastic events for young collectors of many genres! I went to at least 2, Stirling Moss signing autos was one year

[Blackjack]

Lots of great ideas and thoughts in this thread.

I think something similar to comic con would be a great idea, however i do understand it will probably never happen.

Up here in Scotland we have started having more regular programme/ memorabilia fairs and i have been to 1 at Aberdeens Pittordrie stadium and another in Edinburgh which I thoroughly enjoyed though only found out about them due to my stepson working at Pittordrie and me joining a Scotland programme fairs facebook page which is great.
As a collector of Swansea and Wales programmes and memorabilia there wasnt too much for me though the Edinburgh vendors did try for me and i did pick up a programme or 2.
It was great looking through the various stands as many people throughout the country would wether because they are football supporters or for memories sake.
i dont understand why these fairs do not attract more people as hundreds of thousands of people got to matches every week either premier league or at grass roots level.

i for 1 am hopeful that these materialize before i'm on my zimmer frame lol

[Tynie Topics]

The Edinburgh Fair yesterday attracted an attendance of around 130. That was on the back of around 200 at Stirling in June. The fair scene in Scotland is being slowly revived, with the next one in Dundee at the end of November. There's plans for a larger Scottish Fair in June next year at Hampden, which may encapsulate more than just programmes.

However, there remains a lack of under 30's at these events, and the sad fact is the traditional full-time dealers up in Scotland is down to perhaps three, with only one a regular attender at Fairs. Everyone is growing old.....

The newer "retro/shirt" fairs do attract a different demographic than purely programme fairs. In general terms under 40 as opposed to over 40.

How you marry up the two is the question as that is undoubtedly the future going forward IMO, pooling of resources.

"Sports Memorabilia Fairs" with programme & badge dealers, shirt vendors, card dealers, sports book dealers, rugby dealers, signing sessions etc. are the way to safeguard everyone's interests and provide an environment which attract large numbers to attend.

Three a year, Glasgow - Manchester - London.

However is there anyone out there willing to pull it all together? it wouldn't be easy.
_________________
https://www.flickr.com/photos/footballprogrammes/albums

[NWM Football]

Having attended the big fairs in London on both sides of the fence - many years as a collector and a handful as dealer - I hope not.

A week (or more) solid graft for four or five hours of utter carnage. And don't even get me started on the things I have had go missing at the big fairs.

I don't miss the big fairs one jot.
_________________
Visit http://nwmfootball.com/ for programmes, books, DVDs, shirts & sportswear and other football collectables. Click here http://nwmfootball.com/nwm-diary/ to see which Programme Fairs and Antiques & Collectors' Fairs we will be attending.

[Tynie Topics]

There are plans afoot to hold a showpiece Scottish Fair next summer in Glasgow, hopefully with some of the bigger dealers from both sides of the border involved. Early days yet but it looks promising.
_________________
https://www.flickr.com/photos/footballprogrammes/albums