BUYERS BEWARE!!! Andreja Zivkovic/andgaudi

[thfcbasil]

I was contacted by the above person who offered me a number of tickets involving Tottenham against Yugoslavian teams. These included a mint condition OFK Belgrade cup winners cup semi 62/3 and an even rarer friendly v. Napredach, spelling may be wrong. We negotiated a price and he wanted the money sent by Western Union, Moneygram, Bank transfer or in a letter. When I pointed out having never done any business with him I did require some buyer protection he become rather irate. He accused collectors in this country of having a bad attitude and no trust. I countered this by saying you send the tickets and I will pay once they arrive then! As you may expect this was dismissed out of hand.
Apparently according to him he has an ebay account. I suggested that he could put them on ebay at a buy it now price and I would pay the 10% he would lose thus giving him the same net amount. At least ebay has some buyer protection if they are lost in the post. Despite a number of messages when he thought I might pay him direct, guess what? Nothing since. Do these tickets exist? If I had sent the money would I have got anything in return? I think the jury is out on that one and I will let each individual decide. As he has not posted for about four years and the last time he was trying to sell the amazingly rare Sarajevo v. Man UTd programme I know where my money lies and it is certainly not in his pocket. Should traders like this be banned from the site before someone does send them money? Any views? I know what mine is!!

[RoddyN]

I think he may have links with Srdan Stajic , who conned several British collectors about 10 years ago with a similar type of scam. I though that Stajic had been jailed.

[andgaudi]

thfcbasil wrote:

I was contacted by the above person who offered me a number of tickets involving Tottenham against Yugoslavian teams. These included a mint condition OFK Belgrade cup winners cup semi 62/3 and an even rarer friendly v. Napredach, spelling may be wrong. We negotiated a price and he wanted the money sent by Western Union, Moneygram, Bank transfer or in a letter. When I pointed out having never done any business with him I did require some buyer protection he become rather irate. He accused collectors in this country of having a bad attitude and no trust. I countered this by saying you send the tickets and I will pay once they arrive then! As you may expect this was dismissed out of hand. Apparently according to him he has an ebay account. I suggested that he could put them on ebay at a buy it now price and I would pay the 10% he would lose thus giving him the same net amount. At least ebay has some buyer protection if they are lost in the post. Despite a number of messages when he thought I might pay him direct, guess what? Nothing since. Do these tickets exist? If I had sent the money would I have got anything in return? I think the jury is out on that one and I will let each individual decide. As he has not posted for about four years and the last time he was trying to sell the amazingly rare Sarajevo v. Man UTd programme I know where my money lies and it is certainly not in his pocket. Should traders like this be banned from the site before someone does send them money? Any views? I know what mine is!!

Buyers Beware?Beware of what exactly?Did I steal your money, your tickets, anything that belongs to you?No.

I don't know how old are you but by posting something like this you are acting like a 5 years old who asked his momma for a lolly & momma refused.

The tickets we were talking about are mine.I can do whatever I want with them, burn them, keep them for the next 30 years or sell them tomorrow.For a sale to be successful, both sides have to agree on terms of the sale.We couldn't agree.Not a big deal.

You tried to force me to accept your terms of sale, I refused.Because of that now you are asking for my ban from this forum.It says a lot what kind of person you are.

I have never become irate during our communication.There was certain(very well-known) Manchester United collector who had attitude similar to yours(trying to force me to accept his terms of the sale).By the way, when he first contacted me he did that by using fake e-mail address(using a different name).I can/will produce proofs for all this if needed.What I said to you, I said to him too:Your paranoia is your & only your problem.Trying to diminish the value of rare items is one more mutual quality of you & this MU collector.You tried that with super rare Napredak-Tottenham 12.10.1976 ticket(from a friendly match).However you admitted in your post here that this ticket is the rarest of them all I offered to you.

Tickets might get lost in the post?A plane could fall on you the minute you leave your house.It can happen, no?

I can send the names of collectors who have done deals with me many times to the owners/mods of this website/forum if they want that.Some of these collectors bought programmes/tickets from me several times, some 10 times, some more than 20 times.They always sent me the money first, they always got their programmes/tickets.Nothing got lost, never.

One thing though, those collectors are not from UK, they are from other countries.Maybe they do not count?

One thing really made me laugh.One question of yours.Mister Cliff Johns question: Do these tickets exist?

Seriously Mister Johns?You wanted to play that card(being a naive victim)?

Okay, I will enclose links to the print screens of correspondence between Mister Johns and me.Let us all see the truth.Not only that he knows those tickets exist, but he clearly says he has 2 OFK Belgrade 1963 ones, but his tickets are not in a perfect condition as mine.

Mister Johns, despite all this I wish you the best.

Regards
Andreja

P.S.
Yes, I still have Sarajevo-Manchester United 15.11.1967 programme(after all these years).Guess what, like Picasso painting its value can only increase, furthermore, it is pleasure looking at it.

Links to the print screens of the communication/e-mails between Mr Johns & me:


http://i.imgur.com/jpzmahC.jpg?1

http://i.imgur.com/5W5ntL7.jpg?1

http://i.imgur.com/vhscFEO.jpg?1

http://i.imgur.com/TKzjtpk.jpg?1

http://i.imgur.com/dITKx8f.jpg?1

http://i.imgur.com/U3Q2mag.jpg?1

http://i.imgur.com/5aYCGY6.jpg?1

http://i.imgur.com/ntISCBY.jpg?1

http://i.imgur.com/LD0wuZX.jpg?1

[andgaudi]

RoddyN wrote:

I think he may have links with Srdan Stajic , who conned several British collectors about 10 years ago with a similar type of scam. I though that Stajic had been jailed.

Who are you?Do you know me?I don't know you.

I have never been in any contact with you.


That's why I'm asking you nicely not to link my name with persons I do not know.

Thank you.

[treble99]

What these people are telling you is that the items you say you have and the way you are offering them for sale reminds them of the famous conman Srdan Stajic

Many people,me included,have had a right stiff one put up them by Srdan to the tune of about £30,000 in total
We are aware, having receieved,notification from the court in Pancevo,that Srdan was obliged to go to trial about a year or two ago at this court.
We do not know the outcome
About that time you appeared and were offering the same super rare items as Srdan offered
He definately had some of the items he offered
The trouble was he didn't have them all and he didn't have two of them but when two people wanted them he just sent them an envelope of newspapers
Several people i know and indeed myself bought from Srdan and receieved the items.
But when we/i kept going we were all eventually stuffed big time

The line of communication and the methods he used were exactly the same as you are using
You will go to the Western Union office and you will transfer the money.
Nothing else is acceptable
Exactly the Srdan way

So you may or may not know Srdan.
You may even be Srdan as a computer hides everything but the reality is nobody will send you the amounts of money you want in the hope that these items may one day appear
Srdan may have done you a total dis service and you may be very genuine but still nobody will send you many thousands of pounds
You may well have dealt with many other people in other countries but if they are not known to your potential buyer that is no good
Even then i would have vouched for Srdan one time after i received my rare Sarajevo programme and rare Sarajevo poster but having not received my second programme i must now caution all against him

You may well have a super rare Sarajevo programme and several super rare Tottenham tickets but you must see that this alone arouses mass suspicion
You may only have scans which are much easier to get and prove nothing as to the owner
I believe you told me you were an architect
How does an architect find so many super rare items from so many clubs
It is not like you are alone in your part of the world looking for these items but if you have no interest in the world of collecting it is suspicious that you have so many super rare items

I don't collect paintings and you know what the chances of me finding an unknown Constable and a Rembrant and a Picasso are
That is what you are asking people to believe

When we spoke i invited you to send the Sarajevo to a solicitor or a National auction house but my only choices were Western Union or getting on a plane to Belgrade with the cash and meeting you
Just as you can of course how choose to sell then any potential buyer can choose to buy how they want
I am totally sure there is no middle ground and as such you will be unable to sell to anyone on this forum

The one very suspicious thing in the above posts is that you refused the opportunity to receive the full amount including costs by selling the items on ebay
Even then the potential buyer would not have the protection he believed he would have as he would only get his money back(if the items weren't received) if he had paid by paypal AND the cash was still in the paypal account of the person he paid
Other than that all that happens is that ebay close the account and paypal tell you they will monitor the account and should that person ever be daft enough to put money in that paypal account they will grab it and refund you
Been there,done it.Lost out(again)
So why would you not accept the opportunity to get your asking price by using ebay?
Please answer

This is a polite posting to explain why you are getting the attitude off forum posters that you are.
This forum for once is working the way it should and alerting each other to a potential problem
This is the same way it will work if you complete deals with people on this forum in a pleasant way who would then vouch for you
Rare impossible to find items.Deals in other countries with unknowns
BTW Srdan screwed people with rare badges in other countries

None of the above is new
Indeed in August 2012 on this very forum a thread was started,by me,on this very subject and contributed to y Gary Spain who had also been stung by Srdan

I stress again that this is a polite explanattion and i hope i don't get a dogs abuse posting back

It is your rare programme and your rare tickets and you can sell as you want
THFCBasil can buy as he wants

[andgaudi]

treble99 wrote:

What these people are telling you is that the items you say you have and the way you are offering them for sale reminds them of the famous conman Srdan Stajic Many people,me included,have had a right stiff one put up them by Srdan to the tune of about £30,000 in total We are aware, having receieved,notification from the court in Pancevo,that Srdan was obliged to go to trial about a year or two ago at this court. We do not know the outcome About that time you appeared and were offering the same super rare items as Srdan offered He definately had some of the items he offered The trouble was he didn't have them all and he didn't have two of them but when two people wanted them he just sent them an envelope of newspapers Several people i know and indeed myself bought from Srdan and receieved the items. But when we/i kept going we were all eventually stuffed big time The line of communication and the methods he used were exactly the same as you are using You will go to the Western Union office and you will transfer the money. Nothing else is acceptable Exactly the Srdan way So you may or may not know Srdan. You may even be Srdan as a computer hides everything but the reality is nobody will send you the amounts of money you want in the hope that these items may one day appear Srdan may have done you a total dis service and you may be very genuine but still nobody will send you many thousands of pounds You may well have dealt with many other people in other countries but if they are not known to your potential buyer that is no good Even then i would have vouched for Srdan one time after i received my rare Sarajevo programme and rare Sarajevo poster but having not received my second programme i must now caution all against him You may well have a super rare Sarajevo programme and several super rare Tottenham tickets but you must see that this alone arouses mass suspicion You may only have scans which are much easier to get and prove nothing as to the owner I believe you told me you were an architect How does an architect find so many super rare items from so many clubs It is not like you are alone in your part of the world looking for these items but if you have no interest in the world of collecting it is suspicious that you have so many super rare items I don't collect paintings and you know what the chances of me finding an unknown Constable and a Rembrant and a Picasso are That is what you are asking people to believe When we spoke i invited you to send the Sarajevo to a solicitor or a National auction house but my only choices were Western Union or getting on a plane to Belgrade with the cash and meeting you Just as you can of course how choose to sell then any potential buyer can choose to buy how they want I am totally sure there is no middle ground and as such you will be unable to sell to anyone on this forum The one very suspicious thing in the above posts is that you refused the opportunity to receive the full amount including costs by selling the items on ebay Even then the potential buyer would not have the protection he believed he would have as he would only get his money back(if the items weren't received) if he had paid by paypal AND the cash was still in the paypal account of the person he paid Other than that all that happens is that ebay close the account and paypal tell you they will monitor the account and should that person ever be daft enough to put money in that paypal account they will grab it and refund you Been there,done it.Lost out(again) So why would you not accept the opportunity to get your asking price by using ebay? Please answer This is a polite posting to explain why you are getting the attitude off forum posters that you are. This forum for once is working the way it should and alerting each other to a potential problem This is the same way it will work if you complete deals with people on this forum in a pleasant way who would then vouch for you Rare impossible to find items.Deals in other countries with unknowns BTW Srdan screwed people with rare badges in other countries None of the above is new Indeed in August 2012 on this very forum a thread was started,by me,on this very subject and contributed to y Gary Spain who had also been stung by Srdan I stress again that this is a polite explanattion and i hope i don't get a dogs abuse posting back It is your rare programme and your rare tickets and you can sell as you want THFCBasil can buy as he wants

Hello Ray,
How are things, health, business, UK economy?


It is strange why you did not explain why you contacted me back in 2010 using fake e-mail/fake name.Can you tell us why?



I have told you from the start not to burden me with the problem you supposedly had with some other person from Serbia.However, you cannot seem to stop.



You have tendency not to tell the truth.I know, as you went back on your word several times during 5 years we wrote to each other.

Your point about Western Union is not true.Read the correspondence between Mister Johns & I, it will be clear to you I named Moneygram/bank transfer too.


Yes, every Serb is/can be Srdan(in your paranoid mind).I have heard that zillion times from you.


Mass suspicion?Wow, what is the number?Millions?You know very well that I have met with a Serb collector who has good reputation on this forum, showed him Sarajevo-Manchester United 1967 programme.You choose to question/not believe that.When I proposed to meet him again, but this time bring a person with me who will shoot our meeting & the programme with the video camera,than upload the footage somewhere on the internet you ignored that.Can you tell the good
people on this forum why?


There are two Serb collectors selling rare items on this forum as well as several more selling rare items on ebay?Why are they not suspicious?


You lied again, there were 4 options for us to do Sarajevo 1967 programme.Yoy coming to Belgrade, me coming to Uk, us meeting in Paris & me sending the
programe to a lawyer in UK.We have agreed to meet to Paris, than you went back on your word.When I finally told you I would accept to send the programme to a lawyer in UK with one small term you have accepted that.However, you went on your word again.Do you want me to post links with your e-mails saying
you would do what I just described?


Your paranoia has no boundaries.It is suspicious that an architect finds so many super rare items?What professions are suspicion free?


Why did I not not accept the opportunity to get my asking price by using ebay?Because in the meantime I have found out that Red Star-Tottenham 1972 ticket, much more common one than the ones I am selling, was sold for more, on ebay, than mister Johns offered to me for one of the two more rare tickets.Mistery solved?You want a link to the auction?

Deals in the other countries with the unknowns?You do not know who are those collectors/from which countries, yet you qualify them as irrelevant.If I was a shrink I would say you have problem with your attitude, however I am only an an architect, hence I will keep my mouth shut.I have always been very polite to you.You know that.

Regards
Andreja

[treble99]

Your reply does not surprise me

I told you that my post was a explanation on why people were treating you the way they are

For goodness sake this is just a piece of paper
A collectable and wanted one,yes but just a piece of paper

People flying to Paris or meeting in small cafe's in exotic cities
It isn't going to happen

Of course people are paranoid
Nobody knows you so why will they trust you
You are not a well known dealer or collector.You are just an architect and yet you have found many the Holy Grails for all the serious British collectors
All of the people at my level are not used to being told what we must do.
We are used to agreeing a deal and receiving the goods and paying for them.
You accuse me of being paranoid for not either send a large amount of money into a country we can't get to easily or getting on a plane with a large amount of cash and meeting you in a city we don't know
That is provided you can get an exit visa,which you said you couldn't initially but then could

The money might not have been Western Union as you say.It might have been money gram or banl transfer but the theory is the same isn't it
Send a large amount of money into the air and wait and hope the programme appears.
As you know many of us have been there and done that and got screwed so it is never going to happen again i think

"Mass suspicion" as you will be aware is just a term
This is a relatively small collecting world and even smaller at the level for which you have an amazing power of finding gems
A large percentage of collectors at this level will only deal one way

Your final points i will answer as well
"Why are people not suspicious of other Serbian collectors on this forum? "
It is because they are collectors and dealers who came to the forum and did not claim to have immediately found the rarest items ever.
And they were experienced collectors and dealers
They found much smaller items and sold them for relatively small amounts
The items appeared and they got paid.
They built up a reputation and they are known to us
They tried to help when Srdan was at the height of his cons
They know many/all the other collectors in Serbia and there are not that many
But they don't know you

Your final point is that you have been polite to me at all times
I agree you have
I have been polite in return which is why i explained my post was an explanation,which it was
It was not an accusation

This is also an explanation.Nothing more

On this forum there are no more than 3 or 4 people who might want and can afford the items you are offering
These are the people you need to work with if you want to sell your items
All of them will want the item first
You will decide how you wish to proceed and that is your choice but i am sure sending anything over fifty pounds to you first will just not happen
That is all thanks to Srdan Stajic

Unfair,no.
You don't know him?.Then that is unlucky
Paranoid?No
Careful? Yes
Untrusting?Yes but that is no reflection on you

This is not an attack.It is a simple to understand explanation which is an explanation of facts
I hope you have the items you claim and i hope you find a buyer
The simple truth is above and as such i believe that this polite explanation covers all points you have raised and all the reasons you have not raised

[thfcbasil]

There are so many question marks that anyone but a naïve five year old would be wary. By your own admission you are not a collector and yet you join a forum from a different country intended for collectors. You post advertising a very rare programme and then do not contribute for four years. You claim to have an ebay account with hundreds of people having bought from you but will not use it or divulge the user name. Would I send you a couple of hundred pounds? No is the simple plain truth. You leave out much of our conversation but include the parts that suit you. I know the tickets exist but do they exist in your possession was my point. Anyone can get a scan it does not mean they have the tickets or programmes. You would not use a buy it now option on ebay that would give you the same net amount. You would not post to a friend in Belgrade to inspect the tickets before payment. You obviously look at items on ebay despite not being a collector as you quoted the price achieved by a Red Star ticket moaning I had offered you less. My retort was simply put it on ebay then but you chose not to, why? They are your items do what you want with them but why anybody not interested in collecting would choose to keep them rather than sell is strange. I have by the way written on this forum regarding the honesty and integrity of two of your fellow countrymen, Vladan and Vladimir. If you want to show you are as honest as them post me the two tickets and as soon as I get them I will pay the money however you want. I will also write on this forum that I received them and indeed they are the ones shown in the scan. The option is yours.

[thfcbasil]

You state that I tried to force you to accept my terms, nonsense. I offered you three different solutions. A compromise to just sending you a fairly large sum of money. Nothing I know in comparison to that required for the United programme. We agreed a price, 180 euros I believe for the OFK and Friendly Napredek tickets. What we could not do is agree on how it should be paid. It was you who wanted to sell or you would not have come onto this forum. I am not sure anybody will agree to your terms and as Treble has stated you need to earn trust not just assume it. People have lost money in similar circumstances and once bitten twice shy. Choosing not to accept the alternatives offered will also make people question why. If we have done you a disservice then it is a fellow countryman of yours that has put doubt in our minds. I would like the tickets we agreed upon and as a gesture of goodwill will pay you 200 euro if they are posted to me and payment will be made the day they arrive by whatever method you opt for. I do not think I could be fairer than that. I await your response. Regards Cliff.

[thfcbasil]

What a huge surprise!!!!! No reply despite offering him more than the price agreed. What a difference in attitude since he found out I would not send him cash. Interesting if anyone here would trust him? Treble gets banned for banter and at times, maybe, over stepping the mark and yet we tolerate someone who may well con people out of sizeable amounts of money. I know which of the two I would ban.

[Tynie Topics]

Firstly I’d say that it’s not an either/or choice when it comes to banning anyone, and given we only have one moderator on here you need to draw this to his attention if you think a ban/warning is warranted. I doubt he reads everything on here.

As for this case, I have sympathy for the seller who is trying to get his point across in a foreign language and I have sympathy for you in trying to negotiate a deal where you feel you have some form of guarantee should things go wrong.

I don’t see any case for a banning as I’m not sure he has done anything wrong, you have tried to negotiate a deal but neither party could agree. Don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t pay using the methods he suggested either unless I knew for sure who I was dealing with, I doubt many other people would. I think his location clouds people’s views given past experience, you’re no more likely to be ripped off by someone in Serbia as you are from someone in France or Italy.

Caveat Emptor in this case, just as it is on ebay or through an advert in PM when dealing with sellers abroad. You weigh up the situation before parting with your money, but I think the seller has to do a bit more to ease peoples minds that he is nothing other than genuine. Compromising on payment method would be a start.
_________________
https://www.flickr.com/photos/footballprogrammes/albums

[pafcprogs]

Ages ago when I was in my cigarette card phase I bought a lot from India on eBay...it wasn't cheap ,but had some fabulous cards in an album...and agreed to pay via bank transfer.

Nothing arrived and got no reply to my emails but of course had stepped outside the protective envelope of ebay/paypal ...

Then a parcel arrived...it had been misaddressed and returned to him and he had then stumped up for signed for delivery to make sure I got it...

Huge relief and restoration in my faith in most human nature...on the other hand I have never done a four figure bank transfer to india again!

Peter
_________________
Currently disposing of my collection so please email any wants lists to [email protected].
Most Plymouth post 1959 but plenty of others including reserves, friendlies, Cup Finals Internationals and Club issues, handbooks and other sports.

[Tynie Topics]

pafcprogs wrote:

I have never done a four figure bank transfer to india again!

_________________
https://www.flickr.com/photos/footballprogrammes/albums

[pafcprogs]

Young and Foolish Tynie, young and foolish...

But the cards were amazing....and profitable when I sold up a few years later!
_________________
Currently disposing of my collection so please email any wants lists to [email protected].
Most Plymouth post 1959 but plenty of others including reserves, friendlies, Cup Finals Internationals and Club issues, handbooks and other sports.

[hydemaine]

Wow Ray being all protective and fluffy and trying to share his experience for other users to beware.

He should be banned !

[Tynie Topics]

pafcprogs wrote:

Young and Foolish Tynie, young and foolish... But the cards were amazing....and profitable when I sold up a few years later!

All worked out well in the end, but it must have been brown pants time for a wee while
_________________
https://www.flickr.com/photos/footballprogrammes/albums

[manchesterunitedman1]

Tynie Topics wrote:

pafcprogs wrote: Young and Foolish Tynie, young and foolish... But the cards were amazing....and profitable when I sold up a few years later! All worked out well in the end, but it must have been brown pants time for a wee while

brown pants and wee-wow the full monty eh

[TheMusic]

Just as an update, has anyone had any successful deals with this guy from Serbia since this thread was last commented upon?

[thfcbasil]

I see he has now listed on eBay. When we spoke originally he claimed to have hundreds of successful feedbacks but opted not to use ebay any more due to the percentage taken. I did suggest he put his items on as a buy it now at the price we had agreed and I would make up the amount lost but he declined. It would appear he has only just opened an account recently as he has only 21 feedbacks in total. The tickets are the ones he offered to me and you would now be covered by ebay and paypal protection so any potential deal is safer. I have contacted him and suggested a buy it now price I would pay for one of the tickets but it would appear he is holding out for the amounts listed as he has not responded. Free postage is offered and you would expect that to be special delivery signed for. I did offer originally a number of solutions as to payment but all were rejected. Maybe. I am doing him a disservice but I was aware of problems experienced by other members buying from Serbia and was unwilling to send a bank transfer completely on trust. I also offered him more than the amount agreed if he sent the tickets first and I then paid,he declined so trust or the lack of it works both ways. I have bought items from other Serbian members on this site and vouched for their honesty. Are you considering bidding on any of the items?

[roughyedz]

Having read all of the above , and as a simple bystander here what was the problem sending payment and programmes / tickets to a third party UK solicitor/lawyer ??? or even to the moderator on here ???

P.S. I dont see any reason for anyone to be banned, as nobody has done anything untoward as far as I can see, just people who cant agree on a price / deal . . . it happens and the buyers have to go elsewhere