Football Programmes Centre

Ruud Van Driver · Joined: 16 Feb 2011 Posts: 1265

Was seriously considering a bid on eBay item 200703972282 but the bidding looks a bit iffy, what a shame

Crying or Very sad

Of course I could be wrong with the above programme but it set me thinking there could be a separate section on this site for anything similar that is beyond legitimacy, a sort of eBay sellers rogue gallery, does anyone agree? Would certainly help safeguard us programme collectors from paying over the odds or bidding against the seller

Has anyone out there got any other "large percentage of bids with the same seller" examples?

1980Cossie · Joined: 16 May 2009 Posts: 830

I'd say 100% not shill bidding, the seller is a Spurs dealer and has been for years so the buyer will be a spurs collector and will have no doubt bid for more than one of his items listed which are more often than not very scarce items.

Ruud Van Driver · Joined: 16 Feb 2011 Posts: 1265

1980Cossie wrote:

I'd say 100% not shill bidding, the seller is a Spurs dealer and has been for years so the buyer will be a spurs collector and will have no doubt bid for more than one of his items listed which are more often than not very scarce items.

Glad I covered myself with an "I could be wrong" then, thank you. Doesn't win many of them though.

1980Cossie · Joined: 16 May 2009 Posts: 830

I'm almost certain that this is the top bidders feedback profile and looks like a Spurs collector,

http://feedback.ebay.co.uk/ws/.....llFeedback

Ruud Van Driver · Joined: 16 Feb 2011 Posts: 1265

1980Cossie wrote:

I'm almost certain that this is the top bidders feedback profile and looks like a Spurs collector,

http://feedback.ebay.co.uk/ws/.....llFeedback

No, I'm referring to the second highest bidder shown as m***k who has a feedback score of 44, in the last 30 days they have bid 38 times on 34 items of which 100% are with the same seller.

The one you refer to is no doubt legitimate and is currently the highest bidder

Eddie Reeve · Joined: 08 Sep 2010 Posts: 123

Have to agree with Cossie I would trust this seller 100%
I think it's just a coincidence that the underbidder has bid on a lot of his items recently

Dorking · Joined: 05 Feb 2010 Posts: 2529

For a few months last year I was regularly only buying high priced items from Dick Rattray. It can happen that a seller has a load of rare stuff that one collector wants.

Wullie · Joined: 10 Jun 2009 Posts: 3423

I've seen some dodgy bidding in my time, but must say i can't see anything wrong here. I think we have to careful before marking people down as "rogues" . To be honest, if i was the seller and read this thread i would be fuming.

wdy11 · Joined: 14 Mar 2010 Posts: 418 Location: Kent

I can vouch for this guy. He was a friend of a fellow spurs collector and is one of the biggest Spurs collectors out there. He always sells high end Spurs stuff and over the past few months has been listing some very rare stuff selling for hundreds a pop. His listings are on a weekly basis and I think most Spurs collectors have cottoned on to that fact and hence probably has a cliental of high end collectors hence the prices he realises.

I hope this helps. I do think the idea of an eBay black list similar to programme monthlies is a good idea.

Ruud Van Driver · Joined: 16 Feb 2011 Posts: 1265

Fair enough, looks like I may be barking up the wrong tree!

The only other point of note however is that 8 items have been won yet feedback has not appeared in either direction to or from m***k, unless I'm misreading things and the 8 items shown in green are items where m***k is currently the high bidder, don't think so though. I can find no feedback given or received over the 30 day period to a bidder with a feedback rating of 44. I do of course appreciate that feedback isn't always given.

Floor Pie · Joined: 02 Dec 2010 Posts: 286 Location: Bristol

Very weird... and people say yeah he is legit but all these things ruud is highlighting seem to me there is definatley shill bidding going on. Sellers have been slammed on here in the past with alot less evidance! Ebay should just change everything back to the way it was a few years ago when everything was dispalyed!!!

PABLO76 · Joined: 01 Nov 2009 Posts: 753

Have to agree with both sides here, the seller is a reputable dealer, but the underbidding looks very dodgy, puts me off straight away, rightly or wrongly.

1980Cossie · Joined: 16 May 2009 Posts: 830

Ruud Van Driver wrote:

1980Cossie wrote:

I'm almost certain that this is the top bidders feedback profile and looks like a Spurs collector,

http://feedback.ebay.co.uk/ws/.....llFeedback

No, I'm referring to the second highest bidder shown as m***k who has a feedback score of 44, in the last 30 days they have bid 38 times on 34 items of which 100% are with the same seller.

The one you refer to is no doubt legitimate and is currently the highest bidder

I think this is the 44 feedback ebayer your looking for. Only seems to buy Tottenham items off the ebay seller in question.

http://feedback.ebay.co.uk/ws/.....llFeedback

Ruud Van Driver · Joined: 16 Feb 2011 Posts: 1265

1980Cossie wrote:

Ruud Van Driver wrote:

1980Cossie wrote:

I'm almost certain that this is the top bidders feedback profile and looks like a Spurs collector,

http://feedback.ebay.co.uk/ws/.....llFeedback

No, I'm referring to the second highest bidder shown as m***k who has a feedback score of 44, in the last 30 days they have bid 38 times on 34 items of which 100% are with the same seller.

The one you refer to is no doubt legitimate and is currently the highest bidder

I think this is the 44 feedback ebayer your looking for. Only seems to buy Tottenham items off the ebay seller in question.

http://feedback.ebay.co.uk/ws/.....llFeedback

Exactly....! Sherlock

1980Cossie · Joined: 16 May 2009 Posts: 830

As long as sellers use a different IP address to shill bid from ebay don't care. I used to report another ebayer daily who was doing it and had been for years, still does it now but ebay always send the same automated reply which states we investigated your claim and found there to be no case of shill bidding this time.

Wullie · Joined: 10 Jun 2009 Posts: 3423

The guy M...K could be just one of those who doesn't leave feedback, hence his low rating of 44 (it's not compulsory) so the seller doesn't bother listing feedback.I myself have stopped giving feedback unless it is given first. So what can the seller do ? Refuse the highest bid because the buyer leaves no feedback ? I think not.

Ruud Van Driver · Joined: 16 Feb 2011 Posts: 1265

Wullie wrote:

The guy M...K could be just one of those who doesn't leave feedback, hence his low rating of 44 (it's not compulsory) so the seller doesn't bother listing feedback.I myself have stopped giving feedback unless it is given first. So what can the seller do ? Refuse the highest bid because the buyer leaves no feedback ? I think not.

Wullie, m***k DOES leave and receive feedback from the seller as can be seen by looking at Cossie's feedback link, in fact the only three football related items in the whole 44 are all from the same seller, everything else is feedback for 'lady things' or kids stuff! Pretty unusual that the only three Spurs bits are from the same seller...

Getting close to a guilty here I'm afraid Judge

Here's the link again

http://feedback.ebay.co.uk/ws/.....llFeedback

Wullie · Joined: 10 Jun 2009 Posts: 3423

So , a Spurs fan who likes to buy 'lady things' . Nothing unusual about that. Laughing

kcs · Joined: 29 Dec 2008 Posts: 1655 Location: Ashford, Kent

I agree in part that this may look dodgy, but in my opinion this is purely coincidence.

I often bid on the same dealers/members stuff and have a low strike rate, this being because I get outbid by the same buyers.... I would assume that this is happening to the user with 44 feedback. (I predominately only bid on programmes too, and mainly Leeds related too - the same in this instance but with Spurs items), my misses may use my account to bid on other things if we have money in my paypal account - therefore more than one person may be using the eBay account.

I also sell items occasionally, and at the early stages of auctions I get the same bidder placing a bid, he (or she) only wins about one in ten items of mine that they bid on. The items that they win generally go for a little less than expected.

With reference to shill bidding, as a buyer why does this make any difference to you, if you bid 50 quid then surely your prepared to pay 50 quid for an item, if not why would any body bid more than they are prepared to pay, yes slightly annoying you have paid more, but simply don't bid higher than you wish to pay - or less your grievance is not getting something for a good price - is this not what the seller is doing anyway?
I accept that the above statement looks favourable to shill bidding but believe me I am against it just like every other member of this forum, but if you think an item looks dodgy (for shill bidding) then why wouldn't you bid? Shill bidding can never make your initial bid higher than the one you entered.... you will still pay within the limit of what you entered should you win the item.....
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PABLO76 · Joined: 01 Nov 2009 Posts: 753

What absolute bollocks.

You might end up paying the maximum that you bid, but its the principle of the matter, why should you pay £50 for an item when the underbidder at £45 is the seller, and the only other bidder maxed out at £40?

Ridiculous analogy.