Manchester United v Benfica 1968 European Cup Final REPLAY

[manchesterunitedman1]

Now for a bit of quality on a Saturday morning


There are reproduction postcards available for the cover of this programme and have been for years, this image is the original programme.

To see other items from my collection covering all aspects of Manchester United programmes, tickets, autographs,menu's, newspapers and many other catergories visit me at
www.flickr.com/photos/manchesterunitedman1/
www.flickr.com/photos/manchesterunitedman1/sets
Just click on any image to download for free
Leslie Millman
ALWAYS LOOKING TO ADD TO MY COLLECTION WHETHER IT IS AN ITEM FOR A £1 OR THOUSANDS OF £'S

[PABLO76]

Its condition is a little confusing Leslie, matchday fold??

Impossible item to value if there truly is only 2, how did you come by it and when?

You have PM by the way

[manchesterunitedman1]

PABLO76 wrote:

Its condition is a little confusing Leslie, matchday fold??. Impossible item to value if there truly is only 2, how did you come by it and when?. If anyone else has a copy besides this and the only other one known to show up then let me know!. If an item such as this came onto the market there are enough mature Arsenal and United collectors who would have an interest and a level of pricing would soon be established. You have PM by the way

No thieving printers fold no doubt shoving it in his pocket and kept it for 30 years until he sold it and i purchased it from someone else in 1999.

If anyone else has a copy besides this and the only other one known to show up then let me know!. If an item such as this came onto the market there are enough mature Arsenal and United collectors who would have an interest and a level of pricing would soon be established

PM Replied too.

Leslie Millman-manchesterunitedman1/

[CharityShield]

Your collection is fantastic, how on earth do you find some of these programmes?

Us mere mortals dream of getting close to your collection!

[manchesterunitedman1]

CharityShield wrote:

Your collection is fantastic, how on earth do you find some of these programmes? Us mere mortals dream of getting close to your collection!

Thanks for the kind words.

It has taken so far a lot of time, patience, good fortune to be in the right place at the right time, having a good name and reputation. Ebay has been a great assistance, auctions also to a lesser degreee for me,nurturing of contacts over 45 years and of course being able to spend a few quid here and there when the opportunities have arisen all funded by sometimes 18 hours a day working for many years and all of this despite having to sell some of my collection in 1984 and then most of it in 2000 due to outside influences, but i never gave up the hope that one day i would get most of it back and then some, so once again thanks for the supportive words!
Leslie

[treble99]

mention it once and up pops another.

i am informed that another one of these is in Graham Budds next auction.

it has come from a seller whose father was a printer of the day.

it has been hawked around and all offers declined so off to auction it goes at £3000-£5000 estimate

[manchesterunitedman1]

Rest assured i shall be doing my utmost to ensure the price is kept around the highest estimate or beyond!
Leslie Millman-manchesterunitedman1
www.flickr.com/photos/manchesterunitedman1/sets
www.flickr.com/photos/manchesterunitedman1/

[The Voice of Reason]

manchesterunitedman1 wrote:

Rest assured i shall be doing my utmost to ensure the price is kept around the highest estimate or beyond! /

Do you mean shill bidding or do you collect 2 copies of everything? Surely you would not buy it to deprive another collector of having one in their collection .

I would be surprised if there are not a few more than 2 in existence. Programme collecting in the 60s was a lot bigger than it is today and King and Jarrett were big printers at the time doing both Arsenal and Chelsea. I would have thought a few employees or their mates begging them would have bought a few more out than just 2! On a similar note does anyone recall the 'mega rare' Chelsea v United from last season which initially sold for just under £200 - I see the last one on ebay struggled to make £15.

[treble99]

quality items always find the correct level when 2 or 3 opinions/ valuations are sought off leading collectors
If they have a difference of opinion or the vendors expectations are not met then auction at a sensible commision is the right way forward.
all of the above stop people trying to nick things at cheap prices

-----------------------------------------

www.flickr.com/photos/63580000@N04/sets
the worlds largest private Manchester United collection coming to a computer near you
updates most days

[manchesterunitedman1]

The Voice of Reason wrote:

manchesterunitedman1 wrote: Rest assured i shall be doing my utmost to ensure the price is kept around the highest estimate or beyond! / Do you mean shill bidding or do you collect 2 copies of everything? Surely you would not buy it to deprive another collector of having one in their collection . I would be surprised if there are not a few more than 2 in existence. Programme collecting in the 60s was a lot bigger than it is today and King and Jarrett were big printers at the time doing both Arsenal and Chelsea. I would have thought a few employees or their mates begging them would have bought a few more out than just 2! On a similar note does anyone recall the 'mega rare' Chelsea v United from last season which initially sold for just under £200 - I see the last one on ebay struggled to make £15.

Two copies of this item have appeared in the last 43 years-fact, now a 3rd is to be auctioned at Graham Budds shortly. There is no relevance how big the printer was, it is a case of how many of the printing staff basically nicked one as a souvenir before they were all destoryed. Considering neither of the other two were ever sold at auctions and all of these years no one has decided to cash in, then maybe 3 will be the new 2?, perhaps in time another odd one here and they may surface like this one has and once this item is advertised on the net via Grahams magnificent catalogues it may indeed be the start of the floodgates opening-who knows, however while there are two in circulation and a third to join those ranks it has to be considered a rarity and as i have said before there are a good number of serious and mature Arsenal collectors and those from the United side that will be looking at this and not be put off by the estimate for certain. I would expect this item to sell with no trouble at all. As for shill bidding i think that is more suitable to ebay unless someone is prepared to bid up the item on the day but could end up with it sitting in their lap at a daft price unless they were seriously intent on buying it, my collecting colleague RAY Adler[treble99] has summed the situation up correctly for sure. As for your comment about depriving some other collector you may call yourself the voice of reason but a statment like that tells me you are not in the real world if that is how you think, and programmes with such a high profile such as this will engage collectors to rip each other to shreds to get it, not stand aside and allow someone to just buy it without a fight, I know of 4 such United collectors with money who will most certainly not be standing aside!, however if i wanted to bid for it your saying i cannot because i already have one?-maybe i want to buy it to use it as in an exchange deal with someone who wants it but they have someting i need?.

[The Voice of Reason]

If you know of 4 United collectors who will be bidding for it why make the statement YOU will be ensuring it goes above the reserve? I accept it is a highly desirable item that will definitely sell and I also accept you would be perfectly within your rights to buy a spare to use as a bargaining tool in another deal. However, the way you worded your original piece suggested 'shill bidding' when clearly, in light of the afore mentioned other collectors, it is going to sell anyway.

No disrespect intended but In one way its a shame you already have it. Regular forum readers enjoy the contributions from United's 'Foremost' collector and also those of the owner of United's 'biggest' collection. A local derby dual between ManUman1 and Treble99 would have made a fascinating story - Ovett v Coe at the Moscow Olympics esque!

[treble99]

don't mention derby duals.
i've still not got over the last one yet.

i am not sure what all the excitement is over this programme and i will explain why.
undoubtably the rarest and most significant Manchester United programme in this catergory is the game against Wolves in 1957/58.
This is the game that would have been played had the plane not crashed.
The point i would like to make is that the game should have been definately played,was postponed and then played later.
That in my opinion is completely different to a game that it turned out was possibly never going to be played and in hindsight wasn't played.
This is nothing more than a printer getting ready in case and eventually not needed.
As replays for most most big games such as finals come up fairly i am not surprised that this programme was prepared as i believe they were prepared for almost every big game
If the game ends up without needing a replay then most things are binned.

There is undoubtably a monetary value to this programme but i for one am not going stupid on it.
There was one offered on ebay about 10 years ago.
i valued it at £2250 and bid accordingly.
i ended up the underbidder and the winner was Tony Veys a well known Manchester United dealer.
He reproduced the programme which he sells to this day.
I am aware that having done the reproductions he sold the programme on to get his money back.
Didn't know where it went to but it probably is the one already mentioned on this forum.
If not then there is another one.
There won't have been many as this is nothing more than a glorified printers proof.
Is it any different to the one i have on my flickr page which is a printers proof of the 1957 FA Cup Final between Manchester United v Aston Villa which would have taken place at Goodison.
Further comments suggest that Everton did this regularly just in case.
I suspect i have the only copy in existence of this programme but my own valuation is £1000-£2000 and not £3000-£5000.

if you want to check it out go to
www.flickr.com/photos 63580000@N04/sets
it is in the section marked postponed and abandoned as i had nowhere else to put it

i am not saying that the United v Benfica won't sell for that much as i believe it will, but i am just saying that i won't be in the fight as i actually don't rate it because as i say the game was never played.
One mans opinion i suppose.

I am led to believe that the seller was offered £2500 for a private quick deal so unless somebody was trying to nick it cheap then that is the market valuation

[hibernian]

treble99 wrote:

don't mention derby duals. i've still not got over the last one yet. i am not sure what all the excitement is over this programme and i will explain why. undoubtably the rarest and most significant Manchester United programme in this catergory is the game against Wolves in 1957/58. This is the game that would have been played had the plane not crashed. The point i would like to make is that the game should have been definately played,was postponed and then played later. That in my opinion is completely different to a game that it turned out was possibly never going to be played and in hindsight wasn't played. This is nothing more than a printer getting ready in case and eventually not needed. As replays for most most big games such as finals come up fairly i am not surprised that this programme was prepared as i believe they were prepared for almost every big game If the game ends up without needing a replay then most things are binned. There is undoubtably a monetary value to this programme but i for one am not going stupid on it. There was one offered on ebay about 10 years ago. i valued it at £2250 and bid accordingly. i ended up the underbidder and the winner was Tony Veys a well known Manchester United dealer. He reproduced the programme which he sells to this day. I am aware that having done the reproductions he sold the programme on to get his money back. Didn't know where it went to but it probably is the one already mentioned on this forum. If not then there is another one. There won't have been many as this is nothing more than a glorified printers proof. Is it any different to the one i have on my flickr page which is a printers proof of the 1957 FA Cup Final between Manchester United v Aston Villa which would have taken place at Goodison. Further comments suggest that Everton did this regularly just in case. I suspect i have the only copy in existence of this programme but my own valuation is £1000-£2000 and not £3000-£5000. if you want to check it out go to www.flickr.com/photos 63580000@N04/sets it is in the section marked postponed and abandoned as i had nowhere else to put it i am not saying that the United v Benfica won't sell for that much as i believe it will, but i am just saying that i won't be in the fight as i actually don't rate it because as i say the game was never played. One mans opinion i suppose. I am led to believe that the seller was offered £2500 for a private quick deal so unless somebody was trying to nick it cheap then that is the market valuation

Ray
I have got to agree with you and cannot believe the valuation for this issue. I just can't see the reasoning in the price.
I am still after a couple of Hibs matches from the 60s which were postponed on the day. I would pay very good money for them. If there was a programme like the Man U one, it would honestly not even be on my wants list. Nice to have but in my opinion irrelevant.

[Cantona93]

I have to agree. To me postponed issues are much more collectable as there is always an intention to have played the match.

[manchesterunitedman1]

One mans meat scenario as far as i am concerned, I also have a printers proof for the 1956-7 FA Cup Final but as far as i am concerned it is a curiosity as it never actually made it to become a finished article. Had the 1968 EC Final ended after extra time as a draw then 2 days later the teams would have met at Highbury, the programme would have been very common indeed in todays market with a very minimal value. However, the game was never played and all the programmes were destroyed bar a handfull or less.

If you are an avid collector of your teams programmes whether the game was played or not or collect any programme issued by your club whether your team is actually involved then there are SOME collectors would pay out a lot and some would not-I fall into the catergory of the former-i made my decision and i paid out my brass when it was offered to me privately knowing only one copy was around residing in Kent at that time and all these years later still only 2 have surfaced, a 3rd is about to come available it seems as well after all these years-others may follow given the publicity when it sells for a good price.

Now then here are two others which were postponed from the 1972-3 season and if and when they turn up then they will sell for a substantial amount. I cannot say how many of these have ever surfaced but the match v Palace sold with commissions for over £1100 recently but another copy traded for £1800 maybe 2 years ago privately/auction?-based on that the recent buyer had a good deal despite some thinking it was a crazy price, the other postponed match from the same season v Everton will fall into the same price catergory i suspect-i have personally not seen another one but am aware of 3 other collectors who have a copy.
The above two postponed programmes can also be downloaded from my flickr site along with some recent new addittions, if any collectors of United/Palace/Everton want scans of the insides-just get in touch with a PM.
www.flickr.com/photos/manchesterunitedman1/
www.flickr.com/photos/manchesterunitedman1/sets
Leslie Millman-manchesterunitedman1

[treble99]

seriously good information that Leslie.
i was not aware of the £1800 private trade and have amended my notes accordingly and upgraded the valuation of my own copy now because of this information. thanks.
do you know how many United v Strasbourg's(the undated one from April 1965) there are
i have only ever seen the copy i have but i am sure there are some more on the street
same question for United v Fulham-29/12/1963
and United v Leicester 29/3/1965
again in both cases i only know of the 2 i have but there must be a couple more

any info appreciated

--------------
www.flickr.com/photos/63580000@N04/sets

the worlds largest private Manchester United collection coming to a computer near you
updates most days

[manchesterunitedman1]

treble99 wrote:

seriously good information that Leslie. i was not aware of the £1800 private trade and have amended my notes accordingly and upgraded the valuation of my own copy now because of this information. thanks. do you know how many United v Strasbourg's(the undated one from April 1965) there are i have only ever seen the copy i have but i am sure there are some more on the street same question for United v Fulham-29/12/1963 and United v Leicester 29/3/1965 again in both cases i only know of the 2 i have but there must be a couple more any info appreciated Raymond I know of one further copy v Fulham 1962-3 PP, for the Leicester item from 1965 besides the one we traded years ago to my knowledge just one other around, and as far as the Strasbourg undated again just one other. For the 1 home PP re Bristol City in the 1970's i am aware of 1 plus the one you will have and as far as some of the other PP homes from the later 1960's who honestly knows!. I suppose a better indication would be to ask Iain to ask the question in the United Review Collectiors club, so i have just emailed him so he can ask the question. -------------- www.flickr.com/photos/63580000@N04/sets the worlds largest private Manchester United collection coming to a computer near you updates most days

[treble99]

Well somebody and his friend or enemy got themselves very excited at Graham Budds auction with the above Benfica v Manchester United selling for £6000.
With the bits and pieces on top that's £7000.
I think its safe to say everybody's happy on this one.
The seller got a high price and is happy the underbidder must be relieved.
the winner is over the moon and the auctioneer made £2k.
Everybody is happy
The Bexley Heath Youth v Manchester United Youth went well at £2k plus the bits.
You can see one on my flickr page at
www.flickr.com/photos/63580000@N04/sets

I have now uploaded 2000 images of the worlds largest private Manchester United collection.
At this rate another 10 years should finish it off.

[PABLO76]

Surprised to see the Benfica one go quite that high, but then demand is high too, in certain areas.

Which game was the Bexley Heath one Ray?

[treble99]

youth cup 1953/54