ebay item gone missing

[Tynie Topics]

Oh well, had to happen sometime, after selling a few hundred programmes over the last year, one hasn't arrived at the buyers destination despite me using PayPal postage label and having a return address on the envelope.

Who is responsible for reporting the item missing and claiming back the value? (it was only a 99p programme), or is it not worth the hassle and simply refund the 99p?
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[ToffeeDan]

The sender can recover the costs from the Post Office. Supposedly to buy another one (or to repay the buyer).

[holtie96]

I would normally just refund for the sake of all the bother but from a recent experience would advise chatting with the buyer first. I recently had the same experience (I have also rarely had any problems). I gave a full refund including postage and then only got neutral feedback!!!!!!!!!
Therefore make sure your expectations are made clear before making yourself out of pocket all be it for a couple of quid.

[ForestMick]

Interesting one. I would say that for the amount of money you are talking baout, it is easier to refund and try to get it back from the post office yourself. However, TECHNICALLY, I would say that if you add the note that 'the seller cannot be held resposnible for losses in the post, but will provide buyer with proof of posting to help trace' on your listing, then this helps stop the opportunists 'claiming' that they have not received it, getting their money back from you, and getting a free programme.
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[Museum de Latique]

ForestMick wrote:

Interesting one. I would say that for the amount of money you are talking baout, it is easier to refund and try to get it back from the post office yourself. However, TECHNICALLY, I would say that if you add the note that 'the seller cannot be held resposnible for losses in the post, but will provide buyer with proof of posting to help trace' on your listing, then this helps stop the opportunists 'claiming' that they have not received it, getting their money back from you, and getting a free programme.

I see a lot try that but it is not enforceable. If a buyer takes it to Paypal dispute you have to have a tracking number to "prove" you have sent it. A post office reciept is not acceptable.

So you end up with the buyer refunded anyway from your account, probably a negative and a possible problem with the new buyer protection section.

Just refund and claim yourself. It is the better way.

[Auchinleckian]

Am currently also dealing with a similar situation, and the 2006 West Ham vs Liverpool FACup Final programme having gone awry. Only the 2nd time it's personally happened in over 25 years.
Post Office have procedures for checking and if they can retrieve it for me, so much the better. However, I'm of the opinion that I will not refund until all such procedures have been exhausted as how else can I know that I'm not being taken for a ride? As the programme has a reasonable sell on price of between £25 and £35 it would be silly to pay the money up front without taking all reasonable precautions first. The buyer has been informed though that they will get a full refund once the Post Office has carried out it's investigation.

[1980Cossie]

ForestMick wrote:

Interesting one. I would say that for the amount of money you are talking baout, it is easier to refund and try to get it back from the post office yourself. However, TECHNICALLY, I would say that if you add the note that 'the seller cannot be held resposnible for losses in the post, but will provide buyer with proof of posting to help trace' on your listing, then this helps stop the opportunists 'claiming' that they have not received it, getting their money back from you, and getting a free programme.

Once a paypal dispute has been opened you have two options. Give the buyer a full refund and claim off the post office. Or wait until Paypal do it automatically after X amount of days and then claim off the post office, there's no point stating in your listing i'm not responsible for missing items etc etc once a paypal dispute is opened your screwed. the only way a seller can win is by adding a tracking number as proof it was signed for at the other end, paypal investigate this either way after you add the tracking ref. Once a dispute is opened your account goes to minus £X amount, or if you have money in your account they just take it off your balance and hold the money until the dispute is resolved. There is no procedure in place to stop buyers claming anything sent 1st or 2nd class never arrived. In theory 1st or 2nd class should only be used if the item has no value at all otherwise your not covered and if the buyer has no honesty you will lose out. anything with any value should be sent recorded or special delivery. The whole thing just leans towards buyers. They couldn't care less about the sellers.

[Museum de Latique]

Auchinleckian wrote:

Am currently also dealing with a similar situation, and the 2006 West Ham vs Liverpool FACup Final programme having gone awry. Only the 2nd time it's personally happened in over 25 years. Post Office have procedures for checking and if they can retrieve it for me, so much the better. However, I'm of the opinion that I will not refund until all such procedures have been exhausted as how else can I know that I'm not being taken for a ride? As the programme has a reasonable sell on price of between £25 and £35 it would be silly to pay the money up front without taking all reasonable precautions first. The buyer has been informed though that they will get a full refund once the Post Office has carried out it's investigation.

Thats your choice sir - but just the act of a seller opening a dispute against you - no matter what the fault or not may cause your account to be limited or suspended.

You are currently allowed 3 opened cases a year (or 1%)

If I was your buyer I would opened a case against you straight away on reading that reply.

How do you know he hasnt recieved it - how does he know you have sent it?.

Item of that value I would have as standard sent by recorded mail whether buyer had paid for it or not.

[Auchinleckian]

What you don't understand though is that there has been dialogue between us, and evidence that I have taken whatever reasonable measures are available to me to try and resolve the issue. Why should I pass on extra postage charges to vendors just because I can, when I've dealt with thousands of similar transactions over the last 25 years or so? Should I not expect to get the service I pay for without paying extra?
I am aware of Paypal's power. I bought a collection of post war Manchester United Cup Finals last year, only to find the 1948 FAC Final to be the repro. I tried to deal with the guy but he wouldn't have it, so I took action against him via paypal. I duly got my money back via Paypal, and they told me to keep the programmes as well. Result? Undoubtedly, but how bizarre.
I have never mentioned that I disbelieve the buyer, and I have spoken to him on the phone, as Paypal advise, and I believe that keeping a total written record of everything online with them should stand me in good stead.
However, I'd be an absolute numbskull to respond to anybody who said that they haven't received an item and send them out a total refund, without going through the Post Office's internal investigation procedure. The package may turn up somewhere, it may not. If the procedure says that then there's little that I can do but accept it. To do so beforehand though is ridiculous, just because they're a big multi national organisation.
At the end of the day, as a post office user, if I get proof of postage I should be okay with any claim under the value of £30. If I go into Tesco and buy a ready made meal, I don't give them another 50% of the cost in the hope that it'll be okay. Why should the Post Office be any different?

[Wullie]

How long has it been missing? If more than two weeks, then really we are talking about 99p. Is it worth all that trouble. We have all peeled stamps off envelopes and reused them. think of it that way. Some you win some you lose. You may walk down the street tomorrow and find a pound on the floor...

[holtie96]

I would normally just refund for the sake of all the bother but from a recent experience would advise chatting with the buyer first. I recently had the same experience (I have also rarely had any problems). I gave a full refund including postage and then only got neutral feedback!!!!!!!!!
Therefore make sure your expectations are made clear before making yourself out of pocket all be it for a couple of quid.

[ToffeeDan]

Around early June I had the great good fortune to find myself a few quid in hand and - amazingly - a teamsheet I had been looking for ages to acquire (which I believe would normally set me back around £100) was on offer on ebay BIN for £50. The seller is well respected and known to me. However - typically - it went missing. It seems that it was 'sent to Chester' (after enquiries with the Royal Mail - he did give me the Tracking Number). It didn't show up and a certain (incredibly well known) Everton collector was able to provide him with another copy. Now I'm not saying for one minute that the item wasn't sent out - but bloody typical it should get lost - and I have to say that I was a little bit disappointed to receive a replacement (in perfect condition) that looked like a photocopy.

However since this item is so extremely rare I wouldn't know if the handful that were issued were just run off a photocopy machine back in 1990 so I'll let that pass by.

Sadly although I gave the seller positive feedback I didn't receive any myself - which was a little bit disappointing.

[Tynie Topics]

Thanks for the advice everyone, I think a refund is the easiest way out although as I have return addresses on two seperate areas of the envelope, I'm suspicious.
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