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ForestMick



Joined: 24 Nov 2008
Posts: 1646
Location: Nottingham

PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2020 12:30 pm 
Post subject: New Members
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I have to admit that, due to my addictive personality, programmes just like gambling, drugs, alcohol & so many other things in my life tend to take over my life, overwhelm me so I have to step back. At the moment, I’m back in after an absence of a few years. So, what is the point of this ramble? This - this is my story, & just like me, you will all have 1. So will the 118 others who are currently guests on the site. So, my point & my question is - how do we discover the story of the guests; & how do we change their status from guest to member? I have come across far too many crusty old dealers (if the cap fits by the way, if you’re reading this) who are killing this hobby & turning people away in their droves, with their rudeness & sheer bloody minded attitude that ‘we don’t need these young upstarts (& even if we do, I’ll be dead soon, so what do I care?)’

There are 118 people RIGHT NOW, viewing this forum as guests, & I am the only member. Imagine 118 new members joining today, that would be great, wouldn’t it? I think so & would hope that everyone else does because it would be good for us all. So, if you don’t agree, welcome to the beginning of the end; if you do, how do we change those guests into members, to keep the site, & the hobby, thriving?
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Pete’s Picture Palace
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Joined: 19 Feb 2013
Posts: 3516
Location: Wallington Surrey

PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2020 12:42 pm 
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Very good points Mick.

There are now 5 members and 130 guests.

Some of the guests may be ex members who have either been banned, who like to see what's going on or if they're being talked about, and others may have gravitated to the new site on ProBoards and aren't members of both.

But good questions - how do we attract new members, particularly in these days when a lot of people have a lot of time?

Answers on a postcard.... Old programmes, old photos, badges, tickets, shirts, experiences of old grounds & travel, auctions, Ebay... etc. And this place is a fount of knowledge. If you have a question, someone here knows the answer!

So any potential new member among the 130 guests - please start a thread - ask us a question - share with us your experiences and your collections.


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sharrowblade
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Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 3413
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2020 1:10 pm 
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I suspect that a lot of guests are actually current members who haven't signed in.
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Pete’s Picture Palace
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Joined: 19 Feb 2013
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Location: Wallington Surrey

PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2020 1:12 pm 
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My sign-in is automatic - isn't everyone's?
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holtie96



Joined: 30 May 2009
Posts: 2178

PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2020 2:57 pm 
Post subject: Logging in
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The site keeps logging me out...so perhaps I show up as a guest?
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beaudog



Joined: 06 Nov 2011
Posts: 244
Location: st11 9rh

PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2020 3:05 pm 
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I think it is a generation thing. Growing up in the 50s and married before we won the world cup, most of my friends and myself were collectors of everything and anything. One of my addictions was football programme collecting and I had many ways of acquiring them. I would spend hours reading, rereading, storing, catalogueing, swapping, showing and the hobby was all consuming. Every programme had unique points. You could easily recognise the cover of most clubs from 20 paces. I tied this in with geography and knew virtually the name of every football ground and the nickname of the clubs. Reading my Soccer Stars allowed me to memorise many of the teams of the day and the attraction led me to cycle to quite a few of the grounds and pick others off by travelling on the "railway specials"
more a way of life and an enjoyable way to enjoy.
Having stood on the outside markets for a few years it is apparent that few youngsters are interested in the hobby and they are immersed in today, the modern technology and have little feel for the history of their club and the game.
However, it is always a pleasure to be able to relate stories of yesteryear and to show artefacts and with the wonders of technology relive and enjoy several of these moments.
Always encourage,always be open to talk and help the newcomers and on this beautiful Sunday afternoon feel a little better with your self.
STAY SAFE EVERYONE.

PS. THANK GOODNESS FOR EBAY, HELPING O KEEP ME SANE.
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ForestMick



Joined: 24 Nov 2008
Posts: 1646
Location: Nottingham

PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:14 pm 
Post subject: Re: Logging in
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holtie96 wrote:
The site keeps logging me out...so perhaps I show up as a guest?


I think that would definitely account for some of the guests; I think there will be a few more looking to get a valuation/sell a collection on behalf of a friend/relative that passed away; but there will be a fair few that could be prospective new members. These are the ones that have engaged with the forum, & personally speaking I’m of the opinion that if we don’t want the hobby to die, we need to make every effort to welcome these people with open arms.
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holtie96



Joined: 30 May 2009
Posts: 2178

PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:26 pm 
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Absolutely! Easy
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whitenoize



Joined: 23 Jan 2015
Posts: 193

PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:57 pm 
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I think part of the problem is that modem programmes are massed produced corporate crap. Half are full of ads with little individuality. My boy loves football and our club bit has absolutely no interest in collecting stuff and looks at me as a weirdo as I seek out the match day programme when we get to the ground. Mind you he will have a cracking collection in the future!
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ForestMick



Joined: 24 Nov 2008
Posts: 1646
Location: Nottingham

PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:26 pm 
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whitenoize wrote:
I think part of the problem is that modem programmes are massed produced corporate crap. Half are full of ads with little individuality. My boy loves football and our club bit has absolutely no interest in collecting stuff and looks at me as a weirdo as I seek out the match day programme when we get to the ground. Mind you he will have a cracking collection in the future!


I think that’s a small part of it, but it’s much more complex than that. My lad is very much like me, but I have always made sure that he doesn’t live completely in the modern PlayStation, iPhone world that a lot of his 6 year old mates live in. Consequently, he has a thing for memorabilia, & a good knowledge of the history his club for a 6 year old. His mates & the rest of the World have the latest iPhone & PlayStation/Xbox, where everything is available instantly. Programmes have tried to compete with that, & failed miserably. Instead, programmes should have embraced the gulf between them & technology, rather than trying to close that gap.
The World is very different to what it was 50 years ago, but programmes don’t need to be. We as collectors, just need to do everything we can to encourage new collectors (they are out there)
Just like the old golf club members who don’t want ‘these young buggers in our club, ruining it’ & would rather see the club die with them; some of the older dealers with their arrogance & downright rudeness, mirror the attitude of the old golf club members. Sad but true, I’ve been a victim of it, & I know a few more that have
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grantham



Joined: 20 Mar 2009
Posts: 870

PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:57 pm 
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I would put the large number of guests down to bots, they obviously don't have logins and love to index forums. I bet if Craig was to look at the database, there will be alot of repeated ip's
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mdjw_41



Joined: 21 Aug 2009
Posts: 449
Location: York

PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:02 pm 
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I wonder how many people have passed on the hobby through their family? My Dad, who several of you will probably have dealt with in the past, was a full time programme dealer in the 80's before having a more full-time job. In that time he amassed a huge stock and always dabbled for both his own collection of Hull City items and collecting more items to sell.

eBay then appeared and that saw a new avenue to sell in free time. As my Dad had all the Hull City programmes from the War, I focused on football tickets for our Hull collection and then in turn, buying other teams tickets and selling those. That then became team sheets, other club items, all sorts found in online auctions, eBay and car boot fairs.

I have a busy job but my hobby is dealing in football memorabilia. I'm sorting through the aforementioned programme mass and enjoy sorting and then selling these, along with the items I go search for online. At the moment, with this lock down if gives me even more time to do so.

I wonder how many other "younger" sellers come through - I'm claiming at being younger despite mid 30's approaching Surprised

Anyway I find this forum a great place and it's been so helpful in aiding my knowledge of the hobby.
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whosbrianwilson



Joined: 08 Aug 2011
Posts: 216

PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:16 pm 
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I get logged out everytime, given up trying to resolve it, so only log in when I want to contribute with a post. So lots of times, j would be on as a "guest" as well.
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Leigh Treymaine



Joined: 02 Aug 2011
Posts: 171

PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:26 pm 
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Nothing really directly to do with this thread but I suppose it comes under its umbrella ,so to speak.
In fact it could be headed TIMEWASTERS and those who have been in the hobby for a long time will have had their fair share. I'm not talking about people with whom a deal can not be arranged, for whatever reason, but those who have no idea of the etiquette required in transactions.
A recent example {of many} is someone on the other forum, who I believe
also may post on this one,advertising for Grountastic magazines.
As I am getting rid of a great deal I spent a good half day writing out lists/content etc for around 50, along with scans, from issues 20-80 with a few missing at prices £3-4{the 20s/early 30s can command a decent price if lucky}with a rider of being very flexible on price if a few were required.
List and scans sent by post, received, and nearly a month later-nothing despite 2 polite emails.
All it takes is a quick email, many thanks but not interested and it's put to bed{with probably a few muttered expletives}.
We all have these stories but it still grates with me why some people cannot just say they are not interested, changed their mind, or whatever.
I know, in the scheme of things it's not important, but!
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manchesterunitedman1



Joined: 17 Jan 2010
Posts: 2966
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2020 10:49 am 
Post subject: Re: members
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Leigh Treymaine wrote:
Nothing really directly to do with this thread but I suppose it comes under its umbrella ,so to speak.
In fact it could be headed TIMEWASTERS and those who have been in the hobby for a long time will have had their fair share. I'm not talking about people with whom a deal can not be arranged, for whatever reason, but those who have no idea of the etiquette required in transactions.
A recent example {of many} is someone on the other forum, who I believe
also may post on this one,advertising for Grountastic magazines.
As I am getting rid of a great deal I spent a good half day writing out lists/content etc for around 50, along with scans, from issues 20-80 with a few missing at prices £3-4{the 20s/early 30s can command a decent price if lucky}with a rider of being very flexible on price if a few were required.
List and scans sent by post, received, and nearly a month later-nothing despite 2 polite emails.
All it takes is a quick email, many thanks but not interested and it's put to bed{with probably a few muttered expletives}.
We all have these stories but it still grates with me why some people cannot just say they are not interested, changed their mind, or whatever.
I know, in the scheme of things it's not important, but!


Hi Leigh

Yes the world is full of ignorant Bastards and too many of those gravitate to collecting or being involved in our hobby-I should not sit on the fence and just say what I think Laughing
I have always maintained that manners cost nowt, but if your an ignorant asshole then you are never going to change.
One of my pet hates is receiving something from a seller be it valued at a fiver or five hundred or 5 thousand and it is slung in the envelope and not a single word of thanks. Gone are the days "in the main" when sellers would print off the paperwork and send to you with a "Thanks" scribbled on the bottom. For those who still do it is well appreciated.

Throw away society rules ok-do not get me started on feedback which is just another example of manners, in saying thank you for a good transaction[both ways]-although i have to admit these days even the asshole sellers recognise that to have good feedback is to show that you are satisfying your customers needs-but the times i have written to sellers saying simply "I have left you feedback-please have the courtesy to do same for me, you were paid on time".

I do not sell too much so i do not get timewasters tbh, if i did, they would get short shift for sure!

OK that is enough now-said more than enough Laughing Wave
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Leslie Millman
Twitter: @manyuman1

To see 17,300+ original images relating to Newton Heath & Manchester Utd 1878-2020 then visit www.flickr.com/photos/manchesterunitedman1/sets to see entire uploads.

1000's more images to be uploaded, to view the latest uploads go to www.flickr.com/photos/manchesterunitedman1/

Click any images-16.3 + MILLION views to date to the Flickr site since 2007 growing every day. New Uploads weekly. Thank You to one & all for visiting!
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manchesterunitedman1



Joined: 17 Jan 2010
Posts: 2966
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:16 am 
Post subject: Re: New Members
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ForestMick wrote:
I have to admit that, due to my addictive personality, programmes just like gambling, drugs, alcohol & so many other things in my life tend to take over my life, overwhelm me so I have to step back. At the moment, I’m back in after an absence of a few years. So, what is the point of this ramble? This - this is my story, & just like me, you will all have 1. So will the 118 others who are currently guests on the site. So, my point & my question is - how do we discover the story of the guests; & how do we change their status from guest to member? I have come across far too many crusty old dealers (if the cap fits by the way, if you’re reading this) who are killing this hobby & turning people away in their droves, with their rudeness & sheer bloody minded attitude that ‘we don’t need these young upstarts (& even if we do, I’ll be dead soon, so what do I care?)’

There are 118 people RIGHT NOW, viewing this forum as guests, & I am the only member. Imagine 118 new members joining today, that would be great, wouldn’t it? I think so & would hope that everyone else does because it would be good for us all. So, if you don’t agree, welcome to the beginning of the end; if you do, how do we change those guests into members, to keep the site, & the hobby, thriving?


Well Mick, Good to see that you have returned!

As a few have already mentioned there are various reasons perhaps for the Guest scenario, on the other forum the pattern is similar I spotted when I and 2 other members were on and 102 or so guests were also on one night-I do not know the actual reasons to be honest, but to encourage people to visit collecting forums such as this and Pro Boards then there needs to be a wider area to spread the word and the only medium nowadays is Programme Monthly but that is limited too.

I have mentioned several times the Football programme Covers website that is linked to Flickr that shows over 32,000 covers of any clubs at any level, there are 230 odd members and it is the 80-20 rule where 80% off the uploads is coming from the same 20%-yes a few new people join now and again, one guy has posted one Brighton programme cover in 10 years but has a link to 1000's of women wearing not a lot!, so many others are members and have no interest and have massive collections and have never posted as they do not want to share and want to keep it to themselves-fine with that so why join?. this is the link to the site https://flic.kr/g/7MMVT that is the link to the site not the kinky stuff!

If you go to Fairs it is all middle aged men and a few odd guys in their 30's around, when in the 1960/70/80'S there were a lot of schoolboys very keen , a lot of those boys continued and as time moves on Girls arrive and the stuff is shoved into some boxes and forgotten or your Mother slings it all out when you leave home-it is a classic tale I guess.

Today the somewhat high level of pricing for some clubs[mine!] and a few others plus Internationals[Cup Finals are dropping like lead weights] can only be obtained by the "more mature" person not always but in general, the majority of the dealers at the International Fair are all of the older variety-very few younger guys in their1930's-that is just how it is.

Who is buying the stuff at the auctions now-only they will have that demographic and no one is going to share it are they?.



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Leslie Millman
Twitter: @manyuman1

To see 17,300+ original images relating to Newton Heath & Manchester Utd 1878-2020 then visit www.flickr.com/photos/manchesterunitedman1/sets to see entire uploads.

1000's more images to be uploaded, to view the latest uploads go to www.flickr.com/photos/manchesterunitedman1/

Click any images-16.3 + MILLION views to date to the Flickr site since 2007 growing every day. New Uploads weekly. Thank You to one & all for visiting!
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Carlisleprogs



Joined: 30 Jun 2013
Posts: 347

PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:08 pm 
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I think there are two separate issues. One is trying to encourage new collectors to the hobby generally, which I think will be an uphill task; and the second is to get established collectors to contribute actively to the forum.

I have been a member for years but have only started to contribute fully in the last few weeks. Having spare time at the moment has helped, but also positive comments from regulars like Leslie, Pete, etc has encouraged me to keep posting.

All collectors have interesting items and often personal stories and memories to go with their items. A variety of topics and personal recollections involving programmes both old and recent will hopefully attract new visitors who can then be encouraged to join a positive and welcoming forum.
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chelseapeter



Joined: 29 Jul 2018
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:15 pm 
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HI.MANNERS COST NOTHING.WHENEVER I BUY ITEM ON EBAY ALLWAYS SEND MESSAGE .RECIVED ITEM MANY THANKS.I WOULD SAY ONE IN THREE ACKNOWLEDGE THE MESSAGE.AND SOME SEEM VERY SURPRISED I BOTHERED TO MESSAGE THEM.MAYBE GOOD MANNERS IS A AGE THING.
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ForestMick



Joined: 24 Nov 2008
Posts: 1646
Location: Nottingham

PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:47 pm 
Post subject: Re: New Members
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manchesterunitedman1 wrote:
ForestMick wrote:
I have to admit that, due to my addictive personality, programmes just like gambling, drugs, alcohol & so many other things in my life tend to take over my life, overwhelm me so I have to step back. At the moment, I’m back in after an absence of a few years. So, what is the point of this ramble? This - this is my story, & just like me, you will all have 1. So will the 118 others who are currently guests on the site. So, my point & my question is - how do we discover the story of the guests; & how do we change their status from guest to member? I have come across far too many crusty old dealers (if the cap fits by the way, if you’re reading this) who are killing this hobby & turning people away in their droves, with their rudeness & sheer bloody minded attitude that ‘we don’t need these young upstarts (& even if we do, I’ll be dead soon, so what do I care?)’

There are 118 people RIGHT NOW, viewing this forum as guests, & I am the only member. Imagine 118 new members joining today, that would be great, wouldn’t it? I think so & would hope that everyone else does because it would be good for us all. So, if you don’t agree, welcome to the beginning of the end; if you do, how do we change those guests into members, to keep the site, & the hobby, thriving?


Well Mick, Good to see that you have returned!

As a few have already mentioned there are various reasons perhaps for the Guest scenario, on the other forum the pattern is similar I spotted when I and 2 other members were on and 102 or so guests were also on one night-I do not know the actual reasons to be honest, but to encourage people to visit collecting forums such as this and Pro Boards then there needs to be a wider area to spread the word and the only medium nowadays is Programme Monthly but that is limited too.

I have mentioned several times the Football programme Covers website that is linked to Flickr that shows over 32,000 covers of any clubs at any level, there are 230 odd members and it is the 80-20 rule where 80% off the uploads is coming from the same 20%-yes a few new people join now and again, one guy has posted one Brighton programme cover in 10 years but has a link to 1000's of women wearing not a lot!, so many others are members and have no interest and have massive collections and have never posted as they do not want to share and want to keep it to themselves-fine with that so why join?. this is the link to the site https://flic.kr/g/7MMVT that is the link to the site not the kinky stuff!

If you go to Fairs it is all middle aged men and a few odd guys in their 30's around, when in the 1960/70/80'S there were a lot of schoolboys very keen , a lot of those boys continued and as time moves on Girls arrive and the stuff is shoved into some boxes and forgotten or your Mother slings it all out when you leave home-it is a classic tale I guess.

Today the somewhat high level of pricing for some clubs[mine!] and a few others plus Internationals[Cup Finals are dropping like lead weights] can only be obtained by the "more mature" person not always but in general, the majority of the dealers at the International Fair are all of the older variety-very few younger guys in their1930's-that is just how it is.

Who is buying the stuff at the auctions now-only they will have that demographic and no one is going to share it are they?.



Wave


Thanks Leslie Thumbs Up I’m back (for now!)

I think therein lies the problem. If Programme Monthly is the potential saviour of the hobby, as Fraser from Dad’s Army would say, ‘We’re Doomed!’
Maybe we do have to accept that programme collecting is the dinosaur of hobbies, & as such it will die out? I don’t think it needs to die out, but I think programme size & available space would be restrictive factors, but maybe that means that collectors just become more selective? Say, first & last, big match issues? I don’t know, I think I’ve provided more questions than answers
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pafcprogs



Joined: 24 Dec 2008
Posts: 901
Location: Westerham Kent

PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2020 1:25 pm 
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On the other hand one of my neighbours dabbles in Militaia collectables and he says his friend who ran a store was at a recent trade event where he was the youngest stall holder. He is 71!

Another friend who dabbles in house clearances is reduced to burning furniture as there is no market.

But I do think there a re fewer and fewer collectors out there for things like programmes /cigarette cards ...postcards seem continue to have a following

Mention the site whenever I chat with any collectors...but there a re so many distractions online I am not surprised the younger generation are not interested to the degree we would hope them to be....
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Most Plymouth post war but plenty of others Cup Finals Internationals and Club issues, handbooks and other sports.
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