British Programme Collectors Club - Norman Lovett

[Jim LFC]

Norman Lovett and the British Programme Collectors Club appeared to be one of the main pioneers of our hobby when the pastime seemed to be at it's peak. This was at the time when football was more accessible to everyone and the young lifeblood of programme collecting were able to focus on their hobby and amass relatively cheap items with minimal distractions from the media or technology.

In the mid 70's when there were only 3 TV channels and no internet or games consoles Mr Lovett produced the following 2 books which gave extensive advice on collecting and showed selected prices from rarer items. Despite the banality of some of the pages, overall they make fascinating reading.

[Jim LFC]

I used to look at these pages of "The Top Collectors of the World" and marvel at the amount of items everyone possessed, this is when I only had a few hundred in my own collection. An early example of biggest willy competition? (Apologies to Ruth! ) Some of you will recognise one or two names on the list but one sticks out for me...Corporal Thickbroom with potentially 10000 items!!

[Ruud Van Driver]

Thank you for taking the time to share that Jim, wouldn't mind having a read of them if you ever see any for sale or if anyone else on the forum has copies they want to part with.

Last question on them! Were the 'tips for future investment' accurate or not?
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[garyspain]

I have the yellow one somewhere.

Fascinating reading. Some names there from the past and of course some still very active.

[Tynie Topics]

I recall David MacDonald of Glasgow writing articles for Programme Monthly in the dim and distant past, wasn’t he an Aberdeen collector? Is he still around?
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[Jim LFC]

Ruud Van Driver wrote:

Thank you for taking the time to share that Jim, wouldn't mind having a read of them if you ever see any for sale or if anyone else on the forum has copies they want to part with. Last question on them! Were the 'tips for future investment' accurate or not?

Judge for yourself Ruud!! Below is the reprinted text from the book...

REVIEW OF PRICES UP TO 1977
Since publishing the first book on collecting programmes "The Programme Collectors Handbook and Price Guide", (1974), the hobby of programme collecting has received a terrific boost from the press and public alike. Many rare items have been unearthed and programmes, which were previously discarded as being valueless, now regularly
find their way into the collection of an ardent collector.

The first book covered prices very scantily and this has been taken into consideration in reaching the decision to publish this new book on prices.

Many antique dealers now handle programmes - three or four years ago, such a thing was unthinkable, but the willingness of collectors to pay £2, £30 and even £40 or more for one item, has convinced many dealers that programmes are no longer just relics of the past to be discarded lightly.

Regular auctions, featuring soccer programmes, are held in various parts of the country, the main one being the monthly auction solely for soccer programmes, organised by the British Programme Collectors Club, in Hull.

With regular auctions and sales, in Liverpool, London, The Midlands, Scotland and other areas, the hobby is spreading very rapidly indeed.
The weekly magazines, such as "Shoot" and "Exchange and Mart", regularly feature topics on football programme collecting or advertisements for programmes wanted or for sale. Such magazines are eagerly scanned by the programme collector.

PROGRAMMES WORTH INVESTING N.
Programme collectors vary in their collecting habits a great deal. Many collect simply the cheaper items, those which were available 18 months ago at 5p or thereabouts (now 15p each). Others, with more funds available to spend on the hobby, tend to specialise in vintage items, which vary in price from £2 — £40 each.

From an investment point of view, the more expensive items are the ones which are in greatest demand and hard to find. Such items appreciate in value much quicker than the lower priced items. At the lower end of the scale, an increase of 10p has been noticed over the past 18 months in many items, whilst in the upper part of the scale, rare items have risen in value by at least £1 in most cases to several pounds in others, over the same period.

The decision now, on what to save for future appreciation, can be a very important one and great care has been taken in this publication to ensure that all of the available facts have been included to help everyone interest in collecting.

The possibilities for investment are endless and the volume of capital at your disposal will obviously influence your decision on what you will invest in.

If you study the price lists of the various dealers, you will note those who are giving you good value for money or those who are extremely expensive.

In all cases the condition of the programmes is of prime importance.
ALL PRICES IN THIS BOOK REFER TO PROGRAMMES IN GOOD, CLEAN CONDITION (Unless otherwise stated).

If programmes have faults, such as those listed later in this book, the price can be expected to be halved immediately.

If in very bad condition, it may even be of no further value whatsoever, unless extremely old and scarce. It is good policy to collect a few items from the various sections some from the £2 upwards section, some from the lower priced section for your general collection and also a future possible investment due to that particular club being in a precarious position in the Football League. Programme collecting is having a great perk at the moment - ensure you take full advantage of it.

In my last book I discussed the much sought after 1923 Cup Final programme between Bolton and West Ham, the first ever Wembley Cup Final.

In 1968, we were selling copies of this at £5 each.

In 1974, I mentioned in the book that poor copies were bringing £15 and good copies were then selling for £20 - £25 each.

Today, the 1923 Cup Final exceeds the £40 mark, having been sold for that amount regularly during the past season from our stocks and from stocks of other dealers.

The climb in prices of those old vintage items is alarming, but exciting, especially if you are lucky enough to have several of them in your collection.

You must decide, as an investor, where the greatest values lie. Cup Finals have risen as have several other sections, but which types of programmes are likely to appreciate in value next year?

These are the questions you will ask yourself as you study the pages of price in this catalogue. I would recommend that those interested from the investment point view should read the section by Gordon Wright - INVESTMENT PROGRAMME

The collectors who have gradually built up their stocks of the lowly placed four division clubs, will now reap their reward by reselling surplus WORKINGTON programmes.

At the end of season 1976/7, WORKINGTON lost their league status and their programme value immediately rose from 10p each to approximately £1.00 each upwards, depending on age and the charges of the person selling.

The same applies to clubs such as New Brighton, Gateshead, Accrington, Bradford Park Avenue and Barrow, all of whom have lost their league status in recent years. Each of these clubs programmes are now eagerly sought after and their values are rising annually.

New Brighton programmes now bring £10.00 as a starting figure and this is for a programme in the period 1946-52.

Pre war issues go even higher, when they are available, in excess of £20.00

Study carefully the various sections and always be on the lookout for club
programmes where you feel the club are unlikely to retain their league status for many more seasons - it will pay off.

The bulk of programmes are collected by real enthusiasts, with no thought of reselling at a future date. They are, in the main, the collectors who make up 75% or more of the programologists of the country.

For those who wish to enter the field of programme collecting, a word of warning — deal only with reliable dealers, of which there are many. Avoid the dealers who have no interest in programmes, apart from how quickly they can pass unsuitable goods on to the unwary — such as reproduced items.

The advertisers in this book have one thing in common — all are genuine — all are recommended by the British Programme Collectors Club.

if any. You will meet other kinds of dealers from whom you will get little satisfaction, if any.

Many letters reach us with complaints about non-delivery, torn and grubby items received when good issues were listed and so on.

You should deal on a very small scale with new dealers until you find out more about them. Do not rush in without first making some kind of check — otherwise you may be one of the unlucky ones.

Beware of the dealer who does not sell programmes for profit but does it for the love of collecting or the kind who say they are in business for the benefit of the younger collector.

All dealers, whether interested in programmes or not, are dealers for one reason, TO MAKE MONEY. They offer a service and like anyone else, expect to make PROFITS to survive

INVESTMENT PROGRAMMES By Gordon Wright
Programmes of clubs which lost their league status before 1940 are tor
almost unobtainable. Even "away" games involving such clubs, command prices now in excess of £10.00 per copy.

Programmes are known to exist of the clubs who left the league before 19
(see elsewhere in this book for the full list of these). Such programmes appear infrequently on dealers lists, many collectors have long ago given up the idea of ever being able to acquire even one of them.

One may think that it is not difficult to prophecy the ejection of a club from the league, with examples of Bradford Park Avenue and Workington both being gated after repeated failure to attain success, but continuous re-election pleas does not necessarily spell disaster.

A glance at the successful re-election pleas will illustrate this.

No one can deny that clubs such as Peterboro, Hereford and Oxford have
merited their election to the league and one wonders how they could have been kept out for so long, success not ensuring automatic elevation to the league. Of the clubs they replaced Gateshead were relegated after their first application for re-election in 23 years, whilst Barrow were relegated, when in fact, two seasons earlier, they had been playing in Division 3.

It would appear therefore, that an outstanding non-league club is likely to
preferred, to a club which has low attendances and is geographically isolated.

The most recent club to fall has been Workington. They too, have suffered from these two problems.

Only Accrington Stanley have been forced to leave the league due to financial reasons, despite the many rumours circulated about clubs in desperate financial circumstances.

The dismissal of New Brighton from the Football League in favour of Workington
is the most puzzling decision of all. Presumably, it was to bring league football to an a which did not have it?

It seems certain that non-league clubs such as Kettering, Wigan, Scarborough and Yeovil must eventually gain league status. The question we all ponder is, "AT WHOSE EXPENSE?"

Clubs which have low attendances and are geographically isolated would appear to be in most danger.

Collectors should decide now who they think will be the most likely to
from grace. Their programmes may be readily available now at 15p each approximately but once they are gone, they can quickly rise to several pounds.

Most of us collect for pleasure, but by purchasing quantities of such programmes as these, at the right time, in addition to our normal collectables, the expenses involved, in being a programme collector can be kept to a minimum.

[martino]

A minor point but some of "The Top Collectors of the World" appear to be dealers, so should they be classed as "collectors" - although they may have been collectors then and subsequently started dealing.

[Pete’s Picture Palace]

martino wrote:

A minor point but some of "The Top Collectors of the World" appear to be dealers, so should they be classed as "collectors" - although they may have been collectors then and subsequently started dealing.

I hate to say it, but could they be "non-collecting collectors"?

[martino]

Pete’s Picture Palace wrote:

martino wrote: A minor point but some of "The Top Collectors of the World" appear to be dealers, so should they be classed as "collectors" - although they may have been collectors then and subsequently started dealing. I hate to say it, but could they be "non-collecting collectors"?

Or "non-collecting Dealers"

[bisphamseasider]

Recognise quite a lot of names on that list and a few who are still actively collecting today.

I wonder what size their collections are now?

[Jim LFC]

Especially for you Ruud to remind you of your halcyon days....

Interesting to see Arsenal just ousting Darlington into 8th place and Coventry in the top 20. No room for Everton, Aston Villa and Man City!

MOST POPULAR SELLING PROGRAMMES
Many collectors, as well as collecting programmes of their favourite club, will also collect programmes of a club which is doing well in the football league or the F.A. Cup. Due to this, a collector may find he is amassing so many programmes of certain clubs he feels the urge to add them to his permanent list and try to obtain every programme for that club for every season.

In this respect Manchester United are one of the most popularly collected programmes and have been for a great number of years. Despite having an unattractive programme for many years, the sales of the programme never faltered. Now the programme is improving in content it may even sell more.

Leeds United, another programme in the same class as Manchester United, with regard to poor content for a number of years, owe their popularity to their playing record during the 1960s and early 1970s. They too now have a good, well produced programme.

In recent years, Leeds United have been gaining in popularity amongst collectors and whereas previously every young collector asked for a Manchester United programme, nowadays the choice is becoming more even between the two.

Based on current sales of the British Programme Club and taking into consideration sales of previous seasons, the following chart details the club programmes which are amongst the most sought after by the leading collectors of the world. The list applies to current programmes and not older issues.

The demand for programmes of these two clubs, amongst dealers throughout the country, cannot be equalled by any other two clubs.
This list is for sales up to and including the1973-4 season.

1. Manchester United
2. Leeds United
3. Liverpool
4. Chelsea
5. Spurs
6. West Ham.
7. Arsenal
8. Darlington ***
9. Hereford
10. Q.P.R.
11. Oxford
12. Cambridge
13. Hartlepool***
14. Crewe ***
15. Coventry
16. Workington
17. Newport *"
18. Stockport ***

In respect of the clubs marked*** their position as league clubs was considered to be in danger by many collectors and due to this their sales increased rapidly. All survived however.

Recent admissions to the league are always popular programmes as collectors have the opportunity to collect a club right from the beginning of their league career.

Most first division club programmes are popular but the ones detailed above are obtained in large amounts by collectors.

[tackler7]

Quote:

It seems certain that non-league clubs such as Kettering, Wigan, Scarborough and Yeovil must eventually gain league status. The question we all ponder is, "AT WHOSE EXPENSE?"

What stopped Kettering reaching league status?

[Ruud Van Driver]

Jim, sorry for not responding earlier but not long back from a day out, have to make the best of our Summer!

Great to read that lot, thank you once again for taking the time to share. I know it's all relevant but some of those prices, if I'd have just been born 10 years earlier I could have benefitted. That said my Mum would have been 12 so probably best as it is!

Thanks for the Leeds piece too - Good to see us nestled where we obviously belong with the likes of Liverpool & Man U

Cheers Jim
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[Superajm]

tackler7 wrote:

Quote: It seems certain that non-league clubs such as Kettering, Wigan, Scarborough and Yeovil must eventually gain league status. The question we all ponder is, "AT WHOSE EXPENSE?" What stopped Kettering reaching league status?

Always used to be their ground

I've got over 4000 programmes

[Jim LFC]

Ruud Van Driver wrote:

Jim, sorry for not responding earlier but not long back from a day out, have to make the best of our Summer! Great to read that lot, thank you once again for taking the time to share. I know it's all relevant but some of those prices, if I'd have just been born 10 years earlier I could have benefitted. That said my Mum would have been 12 so probably best as it is! Thanks for the Leeds piece too - Good to see us nestled where we obviously belong with the likes of Liverpool & Man U Cheers Jim

No problem Ruud!

[SJJ]

Is Norman Lovett still contactable?

[colchestersid]

SJJ wrote:

Is Norman Lovett still contactable?

I don't think Norman is with us any more?

Could be wrong but I'm sure someone on here could confirm

[derby1884]

As a young collector in the early 70s, I found their catalogue rather confusing.
Did you not have to firstly join the BPCC in order to obtain the progs and there was a discount available dependent upon certain factors?

In the end, I stuck with Peter Holtom and Sports Programmes.
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[colchestersid]

derby1884 wrote:

As a young collector in the early 70s, I found their catalogue rather confusing. Did you not have to firstly join the BPCC in order to obtain the progs and there was a discount available dependent upon certain factors? In the end, I stuck with Peter Holtom and Sports Programmes.

You're right, it was very cliquey and pompous - essentially they limited the numbers of people who could join and then got upset when any business was done outside of their club

[TheSorter!]

To colchestersdid - that sounds very much like Ebay's way of thinking in the present day!