Ingerlund going home

[Auchinleckian]

I've seen some crap Ingerlund teams in my time but that one took the biscuit. The most negative, anti football 120 minutes I've ever had the misfortune to see. Hodgson's got a lot of hard work in front on him, not least of which is telling the Ingerlund players what an opposition goal is.

[Wullie]

The played the Chelsea game, and it didn't work....

[MINSTERMAN]

Age old problem - squander possession cheaply throughout the team then collectively run themselves into the ground trying to get it back. Wonder what the extra time possession stats looked like?

The best team won - let's quickly move on, and please no witch hunts about the missed penalties.

Counting down now to when the proper stuff starts again. First friendly on the 19th July, and hopefully the first programme of the new season at the same time

[bluenosebrowny85]

were neally as good as scotland

[Rafehod]

watched this shambles as the rest of you, and agree that I can never remember an England team play in this style. If they must play like this they have to be good at it........and we aren't !!

Possesion was woeful and Ashley Young and James Milner have been nothing short of shite the whole tournament. Why they were on the pitch at the start is beyond me.......

We looked tired from the start of the secong half and the Italians just seemed much sharper and dare I say it in better physical condition. We were second to the ball and showed no vision or focus other than to play for penalties.

Italy deserved it 100 percent and who would have thought it they were the more attacking team...ITALY more attacking!!! even though it was by default cos we were so deep they had no option.

Anyway Germany all the way for me, you play the beautiful game...

[sharrowblade]

We Wuz robbed, after sorting out the european heavyweights of France, Sweden and Ukraine, Roys Boys crashed out to the Italians after another masterclass of how not to play football. Pensioner Pirlo has never had such a horrid night and Di Rossi may never recover from having to endure the runaround from Rooney. Ashley Young mesmorized the Italian defence. The Germans have had a lucky escape, Lahm ...was said to be s**tting himself over the prospect of going head to head with Milner. Schweinsteiger, Gomez, Mueller, Podolski, Klose, you boys would have taken one hell of a beating, it's not everyday you get a chance to go toe to toe with legends such as Ashley Young. In the end, we've been kicked out by a cheating former West Spam clogger. Hold your head up high Mr Hodgson, the lads gave it their all, we were 'unbeaten', no team had the answer to the positive mind thinking behind our revolutionary 10-0-0 formation. We now have the World Cup campaign to look forward to where the likes of San Marino and Leichtenstein will have to be prepared to 'reap the whirlwind', we'll then march on Rio de janeiro where the South Americans will revere us, and we'll eventually crush the rest of the world, and the likes of Messi will pay homage to England's youngsters Gerrard and Lampard. Keep the faith.
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[pnefan]

The manager didn't hve the BALLS to substitute Rooney at half time !
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[grantham]

The players aren't the only problem here, Roy is as much to blame as the under-performing, overpaid 'tired' England squad, his tactic of setting a side up not to lose for me is the same setup that isn't one to win.

Football is about scoring goals and they generally only happens if you create plenty of chances, I don't buy into this Spain brand of football that sees them clock up a 1000 passes in a game, they win games because they score goals. People may argue because they have worn down the opposition, but there is more than one way of acheiving that, England did none of them for pretty much 4 games.

The one man who should have been England manager BRIAN CLOUGH is the brand of football I want to see England play and that is counter-attack and at pace. Something I believe would have happened under Stuart Pearce.

Well another 2 years until the next early exit, unless Roy sticks with the 'old guard' and failure to quailify is a possability

[Senior82]

Moldova away, 74 days to go. Bring it on.

[Fishy]

pnefan wrote:

The manager didn't hve the BALLS to substitute Rooney at half time !

Funny you should say that.......... I'd forgotten that he was playing until he tried that overhead shot at the end of the first half! Oh, yes - he did turn up to take (and score) a penalty at the end!

[Auchinleckian]

The truth is, at international level at least Rooney is a fud. He was supposed to be the talismanic "world class" player England so craved. In reality he's a poor imitation of an international footballer, and as long as England fail to see this they'll not move on. He'll score goals against the likes of Lichenstein, but he's a typical flat track bully. Milner? What is the point of somebody who runs around like a headless chicken and can't pass a ball? Young, see Rooney.
As an earlier post said, you have to score goals to win games, and if Hodgson doesn't take this on board he will be absolutely slaughtered by the popular press. Remember Graham Taylor anyone?

[pompeypete]

Just proves that 'playing in the best league in the world' does nothing for English players.

Until these teams put internationals first ie releasing players for friendlies etc, the England position in the world rankings will never change.

Having said that I like to think that Roy will bring in more younger, hungrier players........
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[Kickoff3pm]

I think what it shows is the manager did well to keep us in the tournament and that game as long as he did. If we had gone there under the last manager we would have suffered the same embarrassment as the last world cup. The truth is we don't have the players in depth and we need to play to our strengths, problem is our strengths don't have the legs to do it on their own.

Those that are good enough are now too old to play so many games in a short time. Don't forget we lost Barry, Lampard and Ramsey all of them would have given Parker & Gerrard a rest or taken some of the work off them. Those two deserve a bloody knighthood for the shifts they put in.

[Auchinleckian]

Kickoff3pm wrote:

I think what it shows is the manager did well to keep us in the tournament and that game as long as he did. If we had gone there under the last manager we would have suffered the same embarrassment as the last world cup. The truth is we don't have the players in depth and we need to play to our strengths, problem is our strengths don't have the legs to do it on their own. Those that are good enough are now too old to play so many games in a short time. Don't forget we lost Barry, Lampard and Ramsey all of them would have given Parker & Gerrard a rest or taken some of the work off them. Those two deserve a bloody knighthood for the shifts they put in.

I think what you're missing though is the fault of the Premier League in all this. All the 4 semi finalists have 90% plus players from their own country playing in their top league. In Ingerlund it's about 30%, so there's a genuine dearth of home grown talent pushing for international places. Don't forget, Arsenal played Chelsea (last year I think, or maybe 2 years back) without an English player on the pitch. You'll soon be scrambling for players like Wales and Ireland do in the lower leagues if this isn't addressed. Which it won't be of course....foreign oligarchs aren't going to put a foreign country in front of their own narrow club's viewpoint, are they?

[Kickoff3pm]

Auchinleckian wrote:

Kickoff3pm wrote: I think what it shows is the manager did well to keep us in the tournament and that game as long as he did. If we had gone there under the last manager we would have suffered the same embarrassment as the last world cup. The truth is we don't have the players in depth and we need to play to our strengths, problem is our strengths don't have the legs to do it on their own. Those that are good enough are now too old to play so many games in a short time. Don't forget we lost Barry, Lampard and Ramsey all of them would have given Parker & Gerrard a rest or taken some of the work off them. Those two deserve a bloody knighthood for the shifts they put in. I think what you're missing though is the fault of the Premier League in all this. All the 4 semi finalists have 90% plus players from their own country playing in their top league. In Ingerlund it's about 30%, so there's a genuine dearth of home grown talent pushing for international places. Don't forget, Arsenal played Chelsea (last year I think, or maybe 2 years back) without an English player on the pitch. You'll soon be scrambling for players like Wales and Ireland do in the lower leagues if this isn't addressed. Which it won't be of course....foreign oligarchs aren't going to put a foreign country in front of their own narrow club's viewpoint, are they?

I don't think Britain joining the common union can be the fault of the FA, although they didn't do anything to hold the flood of cheap overseas players before that it's true. They simply joined in the notion, mostly setup by the media, that anything English had not natural skill or talent. And that included managers.

Both statements were as untrue back the 70s as they are now. Scrabbling to be like others has cost us our place in tournaments since 1970 when as the best team in the world we failed to cope with the heat in Mexico. Yes it goes back that far and supporters born after that date don't realise the path was set and the reason behind it.

I'm more happy now that the FA seem to have reverted to doing what right rather then what looks right. We have some good youngsters and in Brazil (if we get there) you'll see a whole different team, shape and intentions. If the manager keeps his job and the FA keep their nerve.

But as I said, the tournament has to be looked at for what it was and what we had. An aging team, a weakened team, a new manager and less then perfect selection process with legal proceeding etc. I think if we had play Italy first we would have beaten them. Those 20 mins when we were fresh and able to pressure them we looked a far better team. But once our engine room had tied we had no one else to pick up the team. Rooney looked like he had put 2 stone on since the end of the season. Both wingers have failed to produce anything near what they are capable of too.

The only question I have to the manager is why he played Young at all in that game after 3 poor games.

[pnefan]

Fishy

Quote:

Funny you should say that.......... I'd forgotten that he was playing until he tried that overhead shot at the end of the first half! Oh, yes - he did turn up to take (and score) a penalty at the end!

Not surprised you forgot he was playing -

You note 2 incidents Rooney featured in 120 mins + injury time and Pens .

I'd like to know what Rooney's pass completion was or wasn't .

Not doubting his class or ability but his performance was lacking on the night and thats my point .

Spain aren't frightened of subbing World class players if they're not at the races or leaving them out at the start .
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[sharrowblade]

Kickoff3pm wrote:

I think what it shows is the manager did well to keep us in the tournament and that game as long as he did. If we had gone there under the last manager we would have suffered the same embarrassment as the last world cup.

Seriously, I can't see the difference.

From an English football point of view the tournament has been very poor, and no amount of waffle or excuses will detract from that. In the media, today 'the lads gave it their all', 'heartbreak'. Does anybody actually get taken in by this?

We get outplayed by a dreadful french side and scrape a draw, we get outplayed but beat a very mediocre swedish team whose best players include worldbeaters such as Mellberg and Larsson, and then are outplayed let again by the Ukraine and scrape a 1-0 win.

Given that we have some of the most highly paid players in the world playing for us, and are playing nations ranked below us, is qualification for the quarter finals too much to ask for? What's with all this England were now in bonus territory nonsense.

Against Italy, we played for penalties and we paid the penalty.

Boring negative football will only take you so far, .......unless your Chelsea.
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[Senior82]

I don't read too much into the Ukraine game. They were at home in their own tournament and they had to win. We were always going to be backs to the wall at some parts of it. England on the other hand didn't have to win the game.

Although last night was just bizarre. Why play for penalties when we're bloody crap at them. England are the first team to lose 6 penalty shoot outs in major international tournaments.

In the end I wasn't too bothered that we lost, I have a few German friends, the amount of stick I would have got after they annihalated us would have been too much to bear.

[pnefan]

Senior82

Quote:

England are the first team to lose 6 penalty shoot outs in major international tournaments.

Do we get a trophy for that ?

If you analysed each player per position for both sides last night - i think its fair to say you would expect Premier League players from Chelsea Man City Man Utd Arsenal , Lverpool to be on a par with most other players or teams - They're Champions League standard .

Its frustrating and strange why they don't perform for a whole game to a level we all know they can .

As for having too many foreign players in our league - that makes it more strange - these England players have to perform even better to get into Premier League sides .
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[martino]

It will be interesting to see what the Germans do about Pirlo - I suspect he wont get much time on the ball all game and Italy will look a second-rate team as a result.