The Good Old Days

[New Forest]

One of the other threads has shifted from Bryan Horsnell's Collection to modern day football being crap.

I will just say one thing. Watch The Bid Match Revisited with Brian Moore. The two things I noticed were the state of the pitches and the spikes on the wire cages.

[Cpfc jim]

Hi new forest can't argue with you on your observations about the less impressive aspects of shall we say pre sky football but the statement still stands modern football is crap it's an opinion not shared by all but by quite a few and trying to leave my rose tinted specs to one side modern football is to me anyway cold commercial boring no fun no romance and boring lol if you've got a credit card then hey come on down if not who cares you've been going for X amount of years go away and make way for those who do I get no pleasure writing this but football has played a large part in my life and now it doesn't for the above reasons the big match revisited shows fences shitty pitches it also shows fans going potty when their team has scored what it doesn't show is one single poxy mobile phone the bane of modern life there are good and bad aspects of old/modern football but as they say opinions are like arseholes everyone has one and this arsehole prefers the former it's a good thread though hopefully one that will run

[derby1884]

It's not crap as such, just a sanitised experience. If anything, the pitches are too perfect now.
Anyway, it's also ridiculously expensive.

All in all, I get far more pleasure and interest following the non-league game nowadays.
At least I can relate to it
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[Flaming Pie]

I’m a bit like you Derby, apart from the odd game at Tranmere, Everton or Liverpool( when you can get in!) most of the matches l go to are the grandkid’s football on a Saturday. We are never going to get it back, but I think a lot of us yearn for the past, when we were fitter, had more energy and took chances like littlewiggy’s mate sleeping in a cave. Many years ago, I would think nothing of jumping a train , often on my own , to go and watch the likes of king Crimson playing a free concert in Hyde Park . Couldn’t imagine in a million years doing that now I’m an ‘oldie’ . I often wonder where l got the nerve from. I remember Ricky Tomlinson talking about following Liverpool for years, and just deciding one day l can’t be bothered doing that anymore. Nowadays I’m mainly an armchair fan . By the way, that second -half at Anfield today was probably some of the best football l have ever seen in over 60 years of watching the game. It was sensational. I also recently viewed some of England’s 1966 World Cup games, and ( apart from the final) a lot of them were not great viewing. I remember George Best saying at the time that the tournament never excited him at all. I know what he meant!

[Cpfc jim]

Modern football being crap has nothing to do with the skill levels that are lightyears ahead of previous generations of players it's about the fan experience of attending a match and the club attitudes towards fans which basically culminates in throw your season ticket on the pitch if you want there's 40.000 people waiting to take your place

[ndg1860]

I read the bits here and in the Bryan Horsnell's posts. While I did not experience the "old days" having ostensibly migrated from Australia only recently, there is one part of modern football that is something that needs mentioning. Simply put, my team QPR will not play a home Saturday afternoon game at 3pm until early December, if that. Why?

That is, the old Saturday afternoon 2:30 or 3pm kickoffs are a thing of the past for the upper echelon of the sport. Away games are worse, when there is no other option than to stay a night if you do not have a car. Obviously, as mentioned, many back in those days were doing so in venues such as caves. But, life has moved on a bit and not all can do it that rough at our age these days. Some may also understand that many of these away games are quite a distance and thus the cheaper train travel is to buy quite significantly ahead of time. Then, tv chooses that game and moves it from one day to another with no compensation for the fan who has just spent something in the order of £60 or more on tickets that are absolutely no use at all and will have to spend more on a new set.

When Sky ruined football, they really did so. From the above to ridiculous salaries, the game is no longer real "good old days" football but just some sort of strange entertainment for the tv watchers. The fans, who ironically give the atmosphere that the tv desperately wants, are continuously being marginalised by these same tv companies.

[Leigh Treymaine]

Agree with most so try watching Scottish football. It's still the game we were brought up on despite a few glitches. I'm talking about the actual game on the pitch not the consistent battle with the authorities by one club.

[Tynie Topics]

Cpfc jim wrote:

Modern football being crap has nothing to do with the skill levels that are lightyears ahead of previous generations of players it's about the fan experience of attending a match and the club attitudes towards fans which basically culminates in throw your season ticket on the pitch if you want there's 40.000 people waiting to take your place

If there's 40,000 waiting to take your place, then there isn't really an argument against what the clubs and UEFA/FIFA are doing, regardless of what we think.

Let's face it, programme collecting is largely an old mans game, vast majority of people involved are 40+ (like me), so it's no surprise that many hark back to the old days, but modern fooball isn't "crap". As I said elsewhere it has it's good and bad points, as did football in the 70/80's which is the era most of us on here began watching. The game evolves constantly.

Todays Liverpool v Man City wasn't crap, superb football, but I bet the ticket prices were silly money and the ko time was shite.

The good and the not so good in one game, but it was a sell out.
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[Jim LFC]

Fabulous game today with a wonderful atmosphere reminiscent of the good old days. As a loyal supporter I am rewarded with guaranteed tickets for every home game. Today's ticket price on the Kop was £37 for a game between 2 of the best teams in the world. It's extremely difficult to get tickets for away games these days ( unless you don't mind sitting in the home end ) Whereas in the past, ticket availability was far more accessible or you could pay on the gate at most venues. I've rather got used to the erratic kick off times, although I'm not a fan of the Monday night games.

Whilst I concur with a lot of the views on the two threads, one thing I don't miss is the extreme violence that was prevalent most weeks. I suppose you just got used to looking over your shoulder every other week.

[Grumpypants]

The only thing I agree with New Forest post is, that the Bryan Horsnell,s collection post was somewhat distracted from it's original talking point.
I like to watch the 'Big Match Revistited', but do not need to be pointed out at the points that were made, as I saw it at first hand. The state of the pitches, to me, made it part of the thrill of the game at the time. The state of the pitch, usually mud baths, showed the skill of the individual players, and wondering if the ball would reach past the goal line or get stuck in the mud. I don't think many players in the modern era would have these skills to deal with these pitch conditions. Most would be far too upset about getting mud covering up their tattoo's or mud on their multi coloured flurencent boots or gloves.
The fencing-in was a pain in the arse at the time. It was really the only deterrent at the time, now there is a much more terrifying deterrent, the surveilance camera!!! Now your every move is monitored, great if there is a major incident. But to zoom in on someone because they smuggled in a bag of crisps to eat during the game, therefore depriving the clubs extra money to go towards paying a players wages of £100,000 a week.
I used to love FA Cup Final days. I would plonk myself in front of the television on Cup Final morning, regardless of the teams involved , and watch the build up towards kick off. Television profiles of the Finalists players, the way to the Final and the penultimate, the Community Singing. Fantastic to watch how a simple event could unite two sets of supporters together and build up an electric atmoshere.
The kick off time was always 3.00 p.m, now it's in the early evening, bowing down to the television companies demanding this to gain maximum amount of viewing and astronomical amounts of money being made. Nothing is thought about the poor old supporter who may have to travel back up North and arrive home in the early hours of the morning.
I can't remember watching a full Cup Final in the last 30 years. The competition as far as I was concerned, was demeaned ever since Man Utd decided not to play in the competition, but rather play in some 'Micky Mouse' competition in a place far away, just for the sake of money. The other factor being, playing the semi-finals at Wembley. Who came up with that decision??? It took away the special prestige of playing there.
The draws for the Cup still excites me, especially when a small club draws a 'Big Club'. This is usually deflated when 'Big Clubs' decide to field third or fourth team players against 'Minnow' clubs, therefore depriving the smaller club players playing against the so called 'best' players in the sport, and for the supporters from having a chance to see the 'Best', but still paying way over the odds for a ticket to watch basically, a reserve reserve side. It is great though, when this backfires on the 'Big Clubs' and they are actually defeated. Then on the other hand, not nice for the 'Big Clubs' who have played reserve players and have progressed quite near to the Final, for those players to be dropped from any further interest in playing and re-introducing the 'Big' star players
Cup Final programmes are no better. You need a mail sack dolly to wheel away the catalogue style effort from WH Smith's. The contents of programme is complete trash, the price is exorbitant and storing them is an absolute nightmare.
Still can't figure out why I am called Grumpypants!!!

[Tynie Topics]

Jim LFC wrote:

Fabulous game today with a wonderful atmosphere reminiscent of the good old days. As a loyal supporter I am rewarded with guaranteed tickets for every home game. Today's ticket price on the Kop was £37 for a game between 2 of the best teams in the world. It's extremely difficult to get tickets for away games these days ( unless you don't mind sitting in the home end ) Whereas in the past, ticket availability was far more accessible or you could pay on the gate at most venues. I've rather got used to the erratic kick off times, although I'm not a fan of the Monday night games. Whilst I concur with a lot of the views on the two threads, one thing I don't miss is the extreme violence that was prevalent most weeks. I suppose you just got used to looking over your shoulder every other week.

That's actually surprisingly good. For a top game in Scotland most tickets are over £30 (apart from OF games which appear to have creeped over the £50 mark)
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[paulobee]

I'm enjoying Brentford's first season in the EPL (something I didn't think I would enjoy but you have to give it a go just once at least!) and only our sixth season in the top flight in all our 132 years.

Our new ground has a capacity (17,250) which is big enough for us, the home supporters, and big enough to allow 1700 aways. That's good enough. It has a good look about it. It's close to the pitch. It has its own style. Hemmed in on all sides by railway tracks.

Leaving Griffin Park, without the supporters there, was a crying shame but, more importantly, things happened and we have to remember what took place and those poor souls we lost to a pandemic. We said our goodbyes in a 5-0 victory over The Wednesday a week before lockdown........ that is what I will remember.

The atmosphere is a party one at present, as it should be, but if the Bees manage to stay up, against what 95% of pundits would have told you in August, then the second season syndrome may well kick in and we drop. I wouldn't mind that at all! At times it's exhilerating. At other times, especially away from home, it can be tiresome to be checked you have a ticket and you're not carrying a bottle top......!!

I've enjoyed watching Brentford tooing and froeing in the bottom two tiers for nigh on 35+ years (1973 to 2008). Then came 2008/09. Ever since, it's been an upward trajectory thanks to the backing of a Super Bee. 13 seasons of incredible improvement. Buying and selling of some good footballers, playing the game well and not so well, at times.

We've made a mark in our first seven games and I hope it continues in the next 31.

I see what others are saying, I would dearly love to go back and view a game from the late 1970's or mid-1980's again, from above, looking down, seeing what we saw for 90 minutes but watching again from afar.

What would we think of it all?!

[Flaming Pie]

Cpfc Jim, have to disagree with your remark that the skill levels today are light years ahead of players from decades ago. To me , what has changed is the fitness , diet , training regime and ,in most cases ,shear size of the modern day pros . I watched the Stoke v West Brom game the other night . Most of the West Brom team looked like giants. But, in my opinion, although they were not in the same league as athletes as the modern day West Brom ,, the West Brom team that won the FA Cup in 1968 were far more skilful than their modern day equivalents. Take a look at the Hungarian team that came to Wembley and wiped the floor with England in the 1950s. Also, The Busby Babes or that great Real Madrid team of the 1950s early 1960s. I know a lot of Premiership games are not really up to much,,but , as Jim LFC said, £37 to watch those two great teams yesterday was a bargain. He was present at a game( second-half) that will be remembered for years to come. Mo Salah and Phil Foden, brilliant. Just my opinion, as you said everyone is entitled to that!

[Thedoog10]

One of the things I miss his the chose you had were you could view the game I seldom stood in the same place .
Know I have sat next to some knobs who whoffel on about anything bar the game that have supposed to have come to watch there jobs , girlfriends TV progs ,Brexit covid !!!.

[Pacey Winger]

A few years back, we went to Liverpool for a short break and I took in the stadium tour. (Did Goodison as well)

The new stand was not long completed and I remarked to the steward about how impressive the ground was. The steward shrugged and said it was but it wasn't the same anymore.

He pointed to the Kop and said "look what they have done to the Kop" referring to the seating. He then told me how the Kop to him was standing at the back and when Keegan scored, ending up pitch side.

He lamented the high paid players rolling about at the slightest touch and the general pricing of the game for the working man

(I should say this was all before Liverpool won the League, so he may have changed his mind)

He then told me that for his dose of "real football" he and a few of his mates would come up to watch the lower leagues in Scotland a couple of times a year and take in teams like Cowdenbeath. He liked the fact that there was still an honesty about the game, the crunching tackles and the pies us "jocks" like to eat that you squeeze and the juice runs out!

I felt for him, he was clearly struggling between the nostalgic and modern.

The best I could offer him was a bit of advice which was

The pies he was talking about are called Scotch Pies and if juice is running out them when your squeezing them, probably best to avoid them.

[Pete’s Picture Palace]

I've read all the posts and there's a lot of hankering back to the 1970's, the Golden Age of hooligans and a complete lack of facilities. I must admit I loved following Palace all over the place in our 1974-1977 Div 3 days, from Wrexham to Doncaster, from Port Vale to Portsmouth. They are among some of the best of my memories, when the only map we had was a Good Beer Guide and travel was in my old Morris Minor (189 JRA).

But in the 70's the old guys were going all misty eyed for the pre-hooligan days of the 50's when record gates crammed in all over the country and keepers wore woolly roll-neck jumpers and centre halves were quarried, not born (Shankly of Yeats).

And in the 50's they went all misty-eyed about Dixie Dean and George Camsell and hated floodlights and shirt numbers on backs.

What all of you seem to have glossed over were those awful days in the 80's when crowds slumped to 4,000 at Palace and it was a similar story (pro rata) everywhere. (Were you there, cpfcjim, Palace v Carlisle, 17.3.1985, gate 4330?). Why did that happen?

Well, Heysel and Valley Parade were two very important factors. Nowadays I can go to a game, as I did yesterday, thoroughly enjoy it, having paid just under £20 for my seat, watch two teams give 100% with no shortage of skill or passion, and flunk their lines as ever but this is Palace & Leicester we are talking about. And on setting out, I knew that I was 99.9% sure of getting home again unscathed. The same cannot be true of the 1980's, particularly at those two awful events. And then there was Hillsborough, which was a disaster just waiting to happen. A few of you reading this thread must have been at that game, or another game, on that day. I know I was. I can still remember it.

Hanker after those days if you must, but I for one, as I approach my dotage, am happy to watch a game sitting down, standing up from time to time if something major happens or to assist in rousing my team, without feeling fleeced or lucky to be alive. And I can also pop along to Sutton United (like next Saturday, when the Internationals are on again) for the alternative experience of standing up and grabbing a beer in their bar before the game - and paying £13 for my ticket.

What's not to like?

PS: I don't like my club's attitude to supporters like me, who they have shifted out of their seats to fit in a "choir" and now told us we have to download various apps to get into the ground. But that's another issue, it has nothing to do with what's happening on the pitch, which is why I love the game.

[Flaming Pie]

Paulobee, haven’t talked to anyone who isn’t impressed with what Brentford are doing. Even Liverpool fans after that 3-3! Going back into the distant past, they have got the feel of that team that Sir Alf put together at lpswich in 1961-62 that won the title . The only trouble is that if this carries on , the bigger clubs will be after your manager. I’m on them at 10,000-1 to win it

[New Forest]

They say if you remember the sixties you weren't there. You do if you were a schoolboy watching the 'Spurs team of the late fifties and sixties. Sixty years ago and I can easily recall the team. That side led by Danny Blanchflower has, in my opinion, never been equalled let alone surpassed.

I saw Dave Mackay's debut. Ten minutes and he was off down the wing and the crowd loved him. My heroes were Cliff Jones and Dave Mackay. This was before we tragically lost John White and before Jimmy Greaves.

In those days the pitch held up well and there were no barriers - horrifying to see the crowd behind the goal surge forward to catch a corner, and descending ten rows only to come back up again. For all our sakes seats over standing everytime.

[overlap]

"A different game: Football in the 60s and 70s"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-58733322

[Cpfc jim]

Hello flaming pie yes worded that wrong but I do think a top player from yesteryear might find a full pelt game today a bit overwhelming and Pete yes probably was there as previously mentioned I missed 4 home games in 40 years and stood on a largely empty holmesdale after the exodus of fans happened in the aforementioned early 80s