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Raxfactor



Joined: 16 Jan 2020
Posts: 97

PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 3:48 pm 
Post subject: Bids at Auction
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I was wondering if anybody has had experience of bidding for an item at auction via a auto bid, then the item being sold to a room bidder for the same amount.
It seems to me that auctioneer has made a mistake, by not checking his screen when selling the item.
Is there any course of action of complaints procedure or do you put this down to experience and move on.
Interested if anyone has any views on this type of event.
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colchestersid



Joined: 08 Mar 2009
Posts: 698

PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 4:35 pm 
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In that situation I'd say the auctioneer would favour the room bidder

With the speed of live auctions and the human element involved I imagine every auction leaves at least a couple of people frustrated at missing out. You can of course complain but once the next lot is called there isn't much anyone can do to wind back the clock
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ndg1860



Joined: 27 Aug 2020
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 4:58 pm 
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Do you mean auto-bids on easylive or the saleroom? They are quite different from what I have experienced. On easylive the auto-bid sits and you can alter it, including deletion, up until that lot comes up for bidding. On the saleroom, it is treated as a normal bid like with eBay bidding, it appears as a bid already done and you cannot delete or alter it lower one the bid has been made. So, that should mean that you should be bidding as fast as possible.

However, room bidding may mean a commission bid, which I believe takes precedence over all other bids.
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Raxfactor



Joined: 16 Jan 2020
Posts: 97

PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 5:07 pm 
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I posted an auto bid at Sheffield Auctions yesterday via the saleroom so it had been on the system for some time, the lot came up the room bid the same as me and they got it.
I don't have a problem if there is some rule stating equal bids then the room bidder gets it.
However I thought the room bidder should beat my bid to win the item, I think it is a mistake by the auctioneer not checking the on line bids or what the highest on line bid was.
I wasn't live bidding.
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Raxfactor



Joined: 16 Jan 2020
Posts: 97

PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 5:12 pm 
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Anyway I have complained stating the above that the room bid should of bid higher to best my bid, needless to say I have got nowhere no apology or sorry we have made an error, just the auctioneer has taken the room bid.
Not an expensive item but I don't often do the auctions.
I did flag it up as soon as it happened as I checked my auto bid and the winning bid were identical.
Human error in my opinion, you live and learn.
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Enniskillendoc



Joined: 21 May 2019
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 6:16 pm 
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The same happen d to me today at Sheffield auctions. I had an Autobid put in through EasyLive Auctions. I had put this bid last night. The winning bid was the same as mine. It seems that Sheffield have a problem with recognising online bids.
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grantham



Joined: 20 Mar 2009
Posts: 1032

PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 8:01 pm 
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Quite common with Sheffield Auction Gallery I'm afraid, I won an auction using the-saleroom.com even showed up on my winning list, went to pay for it and they said someone in the room won it.

I told them to watch the auction stream back, they confirmed I won it, but decided I was too slow bidding despite the auctioneer acknowledging the bid during the stream !!

I guess they prefer 'in the house' bidders.

As it happens though it turned out well for me, the item I wanted (Rothmans number 1) appeared in a later auction elsewhere and it was a far better deal buying the first 10 editions in hard-back rather than an average condition paperback

Feat was in my favour that day
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RIKERBCFC



Joined: 22 Mar 2016
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2024 3:07 pm 
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I don't think the auction houses are doing anything wrong , all you need is your final bid to be on the wrong side of a set of bids.
Example if you have an auto bid of bid £30 , and the bidding goes room bid £20 , auto bid £22 , room bid £25 , auto bid £28 , room bid £30 , which takes your auto bid out at £30 as your auto bid can not go to £32 which would be the next bid above £30 , as you can not make 2 bids in a row 28 and 30 then you lose the item to a room bid.
However if your auto bid is in at £20 you would win the item as the last room bid before your auto bid is £28 and you win the item at £30.
Hope this explains the logic , also you might not have won the item at £30 as the room bidder could still go to £32 which your auto bid can not.
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sharrowblade
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Joined: 03 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2024 10:11 pm 
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RIKERBCFC wrote:
I don't think the auction houses are doing anything wrong , all you need is your final bid to be on the wrong side of a set of bids.
Example if you have an auto bid of bid £30 , and the bidding goes room bid £20 , auto bid £22 , room bid £25 , auto bid £28 , room bid £30 , which takes your auto bid out at £30 as your auto bid can not go to £32 which would be the next bid above £30 , as you can not make 2 bids in a row 28 and 30 then you lose the item to a room bid.
However if your auto bid is in at £20 you would win the item as the last room bid before your auto bid is £28 and you win the item at £30.
Hope this explains the logic , also you might not have won the item at £30 as the room bidder could still go to £32 which your auto bid can not.


I think that's pretty much 'spot on'.
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Tintowner



Joined: 17 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2024 8:52 am 
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In my experience of auction houses, if all bids are level, the room bid always takes it over commission or internet bids.
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Raxfactor



Joined: 16 Jan 2020
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2024 1:54 pm 
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The technical term is wrong footed, to avoid this it's best to use +1 feature which funnily enough I have used but didn't really understand it's real function, I was thinking if I am that close to winning I will go one extra bid.

As the auctioneer does not see your top bid, you may well be holding the bid at one increment below your top bid. In this event, you're winning the item at a lower price and cannot bid against yourself. This means that somebody else may have the chance steal your lot for your maximum bid.

In auction jargon, this is called being 'wrong-footed'.



To avoid disappointment, we highly recommend using our +1 feature when leaving an Autobid.

This is our way of helping you to combat being wrong-footed - it means that the system will bid one extra increment for you.
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martino



Joined: 21 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2024 9:54 pm 
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As already said this has happened to a lot of us but the Auction House is doing nothing wrong.

If they get conflicting bids they will always choose the "room" bidder.

It is interesting when the Auction house gets two identical commission bids and no other bids.

In that case I think the first bid lodged wins.
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AFC Wimbledon



Joined: 05 Feb 2013
Posts: 48

PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2024 11:34 pm 
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I agree, auctioneers' general practice is the room bidders always get preference over online bidders when the bids are equal. I think it's because they give preference to people who have made the effort to be there.

I was going to start a new post, but having seen this I thought I would just expand on it a bit.

I've just bid at Mullock Jones online using EasyLive. I put my bids on a couple of days ago and have just checked this evening how I did. I won 35 lots. Yes, 35 lots. On EVERY ONE, I won the lot on my MAXIMUM BID. EVERY SINGLE ONE. Some were below the lower estimate, some were in the middle, some were over the estimate. But EVERY ONE of the 35 lots I won it at my maximum bid.

Has anyone else had a similar experience? How is this possible? Are they saying that for EVERY SINGLE ONE of my 35 lots, there was an under bidder that bid exactly one bid increment less than my top bid?? I find this hard to believe.

Any thoughts on this would be good
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colchestersid



Joined: 08 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2024 7:36 am 
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That sounds worrying but as I never leave commission bids at auction I can't really give any more insight

Have you spoken to them?
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ndg1860



Joined: 27 Aug 2020
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2024 7:54 am 
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That does sound very strange. I had a single item that I left an auto-bid for and, yes, it was won with the maximum bid. I thought it a bit strange. Similarly at Lockdales just recently. I won with the max of my auto-bid.

I just checked my auto-bids for Sportingold (six lots) and four were won at the top auto-bid.

I also had a rather similar experience with another auction recently and thought that the bidding skipped a bid to reach my maximum auto-bid. I was watching as I was free just at that time. If it did, then this is more concerning and goes with all of the above and your especially.

Rather do hope this was just a strange coincidence as given so few items that I tend to bid on and not wanting to wait around for them, I do do auto-bids.
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RIKERBCFC



Joined: 22 Mar 2016
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2024 8:14 am 
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I made commission bids at MullockJones Yesterday , some I won others I did not , but of the ones that I won not all of the items I won were at the full price of the commission bid.
Also an auction house can legally take commission and auto bids up to their reserve price without having anybody bid against you. The auction house does not legally have to declare the reserve price.
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Dorking



Joined: 05 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2024 10:39 am 
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An auction house in terms of loyalty would work in this order

- themselves
- the seller
- the bidder

If you say you are willing to pay £20 for something then they will take that as your bid because they make more commission for themselves plus they make more money for the seller
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RIKERBCFC



Joined: 22 Mar 2016
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2024 11:19 am 
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Sorry Dorking I disagree. Auction houses do not take your maximum bid as the price you will pay. By law they have to follow a set of rules which includes being fair to both seller and buyer. If you bid say £50 and the reserve is £30 they will sell to you at £30. If you bid £50 and the under bidder is £30 you will get the item at £35. They can not invent phantom bids to push you to your Maximum as it is against the law and they risk losing their licence if they do. I have been to many auctions and seen the commission bids treated fairly.
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ndg1860



Joined: 27 Aug 2020
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2024 11:58 am 
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RIKERBCFC wrote:
Sorry Dorking I disagree. Auction houses do not take your maximum bid as the price you will pay. By law they have to follow a set of rules which includes being fair to both seller and buyer. If you bid say £50 and the reserve is £30 they will sell to you at £30. If you bid £50 and the under bidder is £30 you will get the item at £35. They can not invent phantom bids to push you to your Maximum as it is against the law and they risk losing their licence if they do. I have been to many auctions and seen the commission bids treated fairly.


Actually, many auction houses do create phantom bids. However, not what Dorking is suggesting. They do this to start the bidding and you will hear that they have a bid for £X which will be less than the Reserve and is only done to encourage buyers to bid higher than that and thus exceed that Reserve so that the lot can be sold.
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RIKERBCFC



Joined: 22 Mar 2016
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2024 12:17 pm 
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ndg1860 wrote:
Actually, many auction houses do create phantom bids. However, not what Dorking is suggesting. They do this to start the bidding and you will hear that they have a bid for £X which will be less than the Reserve and is only done to encourage buyers to bid higher than that and thus exceed that Reserve so that the lot can be sold.


Correct this is actually defined as bidding against the reserve which is totally legal.
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