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programme article on BBC

 
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infoman



Joined: 22 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2022 11:20 am 
Post subject: programme article on BBC
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Dorking



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2022 2:11 pm 
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Good article. There are small non league clubs that produce, say 30 printed copies for the collectors and groundhoppers etc, if they can do it, anyone can. It's just a lack of will to do so in the main.

I went to Ebbsfleet a couple of weeks ago (National League South) you could pre-purchase in advance to guarantee a copy, which you then collected on the day from the club shop (they ticked you off a list). There was a steady queue collecting theirs! That is one way of doing it - make printed ones a pre-order?

For my Palace ones I have a postal subscription, and cup games are free - really good if you have lots of home games in your cup run! The Christmas/New year ones are sometimes a day or two late, but it's also a bit of a saving.

I do wonder, if Swansea are going to sell a complete set of printed ones at the end of the season for £69, why they couldn't just do a printed copies subscription? Also it's not great for away fans who only want one copy from the whole set.
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manchesterunitedman1



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2022 5:56 pm 
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The Article was interesting to a point, but not a lot of depth for sure.

Manchester United-Liverpool will sell more matchday programmes than any other PL club i suspect with Arsenal, Chelsea-Tottenham H-West Ham'-Leeds United not that far behind perhaps??

I cannot see the logic in stopping to print them yet to offer on line, or even worse stopping at all.

You cannot tell me a Scottish Premier League Club cannot make a profit or break even at worst to give their fans something to take away from the game.

Well it is all about opinions, that is mine-LEAVE WELL ALONE!
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Tynie Topics



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2022 7:40 pm 
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On the topic of Hibs, it does seem to be a case of the club running the programme into the ground then claiming low sales to justify stopping it.

What are the sales figures in England? Hearts are only selling to 5% of average attendances (500-700), but still turn a profit, and fans are now helping out with content to improve the programme and protect it's future.
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littlewiggy



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2022 8:10 pm 
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Newport County, and Duncan Jardine in particular, have bent over backwards during this pandemic / digital demise to keep the hard-copy match programme alive and kicking at NCFC, but I wonder who will be so inclined in seasons to come?

Not me for sure; sex, drugs & rock 'n' roll is all I'm interested in.

Modern match day programmes that you can tuck into your your arse pocket and browse over a frothy ale are becoming obsolete faster than the Commodore 64 home computer, sadly. That is the truth. The internet has already killed far bigger beasts than the programme; such as the High Street for instance.

I feel we're now in an "Evolve or be forever be left a dinosaur" scenario - we need to find an alternative or accept becoming as extinct as the Dodo.

(didn't he play for Spurs??)
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SeasideMark



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2022 9:48 pm 
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BBC Radio Wales did their own version of this story and approached me for a comment on air, sadly I couldn't do it as I was working (they called me at 8am on the day and I start work at 9.30am - nothing like plenty of notice Confused) so I suggested they contacted Duncan Jardine as I know how much effort he and NCFC have put in to keep hard copy programmes alive. I didn't hear the broadcast but I hope he had a chance to put his views forward.
It's a very interesting point but as Liam says we live in a digital age and hard copy news is becoming as much a part of the past as the Sopwith Camel is to aviation. I have been made redundant from print journalism twice in the last 20 years and we no longer get a print copy of our local rag here.
That's the hard truth, you don't put your feet up with a newspaper any more you put your feet up with a mobile phone.
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littlewiggy



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2022 10:06 pm 
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Spot on, Mark.
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derby1884
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2022 10:07 pm 
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I can only judge Championship issues this season but I'd definitely say the standard has markedly dropped since the pandemic struck. Whether that is down to finances or clubs have lost interest, I can't say, but honestly the likes of Peterborough might as well give up issuing as what they do issue is an insult.
The article moves on to non-league - at that level, mysteriously, the programme seems to be gaining traction if anything. Below tier 3, the issues are vibrant, relevant and not overly bulky.
And clubs seem to want to publicise their offering -this week I wrote to Balsall & Berkswell in the Midland Lge Div 3 on the off chance they did a programme.
Got a reply back within 12 hours from a club director with a PDF copy attached and offering to send me a hard copy if that was what I'd prefer. A great way of raising his club's profile.
12 page issue, nothing fancy, everything you need to aid you in watching the match.
It's not difficult - cut out these 96 page behemoths and get back to basics!
Once Chris Kirchner has dealt with the trivial matter of taking over Derby, untangling the mess and paying the debts, I'll maybe drop him a line with a few suggestions as to a) why we should have a programme and b) what it should look like
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littlewiggy



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2022 10:18 pm 
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I honestly think we're currently slap-bang in an evolve or die situation.

We move with the times or we're dead.
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Tynie Topics



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2022 10:59 pm 
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littlewiggy wrote:
I honestly think we're currently slap-bang in an evolve or die situation.

We move with the times or we're dead.


They said that about books when the Kindle came along.

Books are enjoying a resurgence, just like vinyl.

Clubs who stop producing printed programmes are doing it because they cannot be bothered, not because of lack of demand. Their marketing depts convince them the future is all digital. It isn't.

Who saves Tweets, Facebook, Instagram content for future historians? digital programmes won't stay on servers forever. We exist in an era where there is a real danger of history being very poorly recorded or even lost.
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littlewiggy



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2022 1:04 am 
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Tynie Topics wrote:
littlewiggy wrote:
I honestly think we're currently slap-bang in an evolve or die situation.

We move with the times or we're dead.


They said that about books when the Kindle came along.

Books are enjoying a resurgence, just like vinyl.

Clubs who stop producing printed programmes are doing it because they cannot be bothered, not because of lack of demand. Their marketing depts convince them the future is all digital. It isn't.

Who saves Tweets, Facebook, Instagram content for future historians? digital programmes won't stay on servers forever. We exist in an era where there is a real danger of history being very poorly recorded or even lost.


Very well said Tynie.

Hopefully you're right, but I see programmes & hard copy tickets saying goodbye to the digital age. Folks even get on the bus these days scanning their phones & glancing at no sod. Nobody buys tickets anymore or bothers the driver.

We'll live in a cash-less society soon, too.

Mind you, so long as Newport County are punching above their weight at the top end of Division Four, I reckon I'll learn to live with it.
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Tynie Topics



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2022 10:01 am 
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littlewiggy wrote:


Very well said Tynie.

Hopefully you're right, but I see programmes & hard copy tickets saying goodbye to the digital age. Folks even get on the bus these days scanning their phones & glancing at no sod. Nobody buys tickets anymore or bothers the driver.

We'll live in a cash-less society soon, too.

Mind you, so long as Newport County are punching above their weight at the top end of Division Four, I reckon I'll learn to live with it.


I think tickets as we know them are on their way out, they will be defeated by technology but I don't think they hold the same widespread affection as a printed document like a book or a programme, or a vinyl record.

You can now get your own card reader that connects to your phone, so at some point you'll be able to buy a programme from a seller on matchday with a card (maybe some already provide this?)

However I think there will always be a demand for programmes, albeit smaller than used to go before. The figure of 1-in-3 always stuck in my head from years ago as to how many fans bought a programme at a game. In many cases that will have dropped to 1 in 10 or 1 in 20.

Provide fans with content that they want to read, and isn't available (easily) elsewhere and they will buy in numbers that make it worthwhile. It also needs a club to realise this, and not listen to marketing bods who are only interested in video content and Tik Tok.
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manchesterunitedman1



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2022 10:03 am 
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Tynie Topics wrote:
littlewiggy wrote:


Very well said Tynie.

Hopefully you're right, but I see programmes & hard copy tickets saying goodbye to the digital age. Folks even get on the bus these days scanning their phones & glancing at no sod. Nobody buys tickets anymore or bothers the driver.

We'll live in a cash-less society soon, too.

Mind you, so long as Newport County are punching above their weight at the top end of Division Four, I reckon I'll learn to live with it.


I think tickets as we know them are on their way out, they will be defeated by technology but I don't think they hold the same widespread affection as a printed document like a book or a programme, or a vinyl record.

You can now get your own card reader that connects to your phone, so at some point you'll be able to buy a programme from a seller on matchday with a card (maybe some already provide this?)

However I think there will always be a demand for programmes, albeit smaller than used to go before. The figure of 1-in-3 always stuck in my head from years ago as to how many fans bought a programme at a game. In many cases that will have dropped to 1 in 10 or 1 in 20.

Provide fans with content that they want to read, and isn't available (easily) elsewhere and they will buy in numbers that make it worthwhile. It also needs a club to realise this, and not listen to marketing bods who are only interested in video content and Tik Tok.


more or less spot on Tynie!
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manchesterunitedman1



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2022 10:38 am 
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This is an article on programme sales, Manchester United headed that list as top sellers and nothing has changed in the last 50 odd years...

The Football League Review 1970 by Leslie Millman, on Flickr
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henrytheheart



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2022 7:24 pm 
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Tynie Topics wrote:
On the topic of Hibs, it does seem to be a case of the club running the programme into the ground then claiming low sales to justify stopping it.

What are the sales figures in England? Hearts are only selling to 5% of average attendances (500-700), but still turn a profit, and fans are now helping out with content to improve the programme and protect it's future.


From my observations at Tynecastle Hearts is selling a lot less programmes on-the-day post pandemic. Previously buying a programme was fairly easy, but there seem to be less sellers and you rarely see anyone in the crowd reading one. If it was not for the hue and cry after Hibs stopped producing and the dedicated volunteers I get the impression that the club would be happy to forget programmes in any form. For example last season and earlier this season programmes were available to view online but that idea appears to have now been dropped, despite it being promised (if I remember correctly) as part of the season ticket benefits. Hearts women publish online only, but this has been limited to league matches and even this has stopped of late.

There is so much that Hearts could do to increase sales but there appears no push. For example near kick off time there are always long lines at the turnstyles, but no sellers work the queues. Also, if it is wet people will be keen to get into the ground and will be less inclined to buy, but there have never been sellers inside the ground! For a reportedly commercially savvy club its approach to promoting and selling the programme appears half hearted (excuse the pun) at best.

Interestingly I hear that Hibs fans are trying to revive the programme with the clubs approval but without its input. Could this be the way ahead?
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Dorking



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2022 9:24 am 
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Stopping printing them, yet providing them online is better than nothing I suppose, as at least organised supporters groups or collectors groups can arrange a printing service amongst themselves (eg as the Blackburn fans have, and I think Barnet fans do similar)

It is however something of a pain, and it's not the same as buying a copy a hour or two before kick off and having a couple of articles to read while you wait for kick off, the details of the referee to hand etc, and a nice souvenir to put 'on the pile' when you get home. As well as the rituals of keeping on flat and dry if the weather is wet!

People will eventually just not bother!

Loads of programmes have historical articles, and many of those feature images of old programmes where relevant. Future history is being binned off largely for the sake of laziness.

Part of me, when I carefully ensure I get a programme and look after if afterwards is trying to keep a historical record for future generations to look back at and refer to, it's not about the future value, it's about caring for what one day will be the past.

As for tickets - at Palace, the three home games in our FA Cup run have all been print at home on a sheet of A4 paper jobs, now for the semi final, we have a proper printed and posted ticket - which considering last years Final with Leicester winning it was print at home only I didn't expect - so sometimes there is a surprise!
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Tynie Topics



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2022 9:50 am 
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henrytheheart wrote:
Tynie Topics wrote:
On the topic of Hibs, it does seem to be a case of the club running the programme into the ground then claiming low sales to justify stopping it.

What are the sales figures in England? Hearts are only selling to 5% of average attendances (500-700), but still turn a profit, and fans are now helping out with content to improve the programme and protect it's future.


From my observations at Tynecastle Hearts is selling a lot less programmes on-the-day post pandemic. Previously buying a programme was fairly easy, but there seem to be less sellers and you rarely see anyone in the crowd reading one. If it was not for the hue and cry after Hibs stopped producing and the dedicated volunteers I get the impression that the club would be happy to forget programmes in any form. For example last season and earlier this season programmes were available to view online but that idea appears to have now been dropped, despite it being promised (if I remember correctly) as part of the season ticket benefits. Hearts women publish online only, but this has been limited to league matches and even this has stopped of late.

There is so much that Hearts could do to increase sales but there appears no push. For example near kick off time there are always long lines at the turnstyles, but no sellers work the queues. Also, if it is wet people will be keen to get into the ground and will be less inclined to buy, but there have never been sellers inside the ground! For a reportedly commercially savvy club its approach to promoting and selling the programme appears half hearted (excuse the pun) at best.

Interestingly I hear that Hibs fans are trying to revive the programme with the clubs approval but without its input. Could this be the way ahead?


On the part re stopping producing, that was a real danger (online only was suggested) but once volunteers stepped up to help it receded, but I guess it will always be in the background as long as the marketing people control it. I believe the selling part is managed by a third party, not Hearts.

The Hearts programme is 100 years old in 2024, and the club itself is 150 years old, allied to the fact the club is now fan owned I see it's immediate future as being safe, and further improvements will happen for next season.

After that who knows, all we can do is continue to produce something worth buying and hope fans support it.
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