Derby to stop issuing programmes

[derby1884]

Today's announcement rather stopped me in my tracks..........


Produced in-house together with ACA Creative, The Rampage will be a bumper 100-page A4 monthly publication featuring exclusive interviews and club-centric content complemented by a gallery of photographs from the club’s illustrious history to present day and replaces the match programme.

https://www.dcfc.co.uk/news/2020/09/rams-to-launch-new-monthly-magazine-for-202021-campaign
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[manchesterunitedman1]

derby1884 wrote:

Today's announcement rather stopped me in my tracks.......... Produced in-house together with ACA Creative, The Rampage will be a bumper 100-page A4 monthly publication featuring exclusive interviews and club-centric content complemented by a gallery of photographs from the club’s illustrious history to present day and replaces the match programme. https://www.dcfc.co.uk/news/2020/09/rams-to-launch-new-monthly-magazine-for-202021-campaign

That is incredible!, so why cut off the revenue-there must be what 10,000 programmes at least sold for a home game at what 3 quid a go x 23 + CUP matches so even if 25 a season that's 250k at least, if a club can turn it's back on money like that[as a minimum surely] then indeed the game is screwed!


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[colchestersid]

Derby have been issuing programmes (not always in a format popular with collectors) for 117 years. I think they are being optimistic in thinking that a £5 monthly magazine is going to turn a profit when the programme doesn't. Bigger clubs than Derby have seen official magazines die a death

[derby1884]

From what I've experienced, the sales-per-game would be a lot less than 10,000.

Subscription rate for the new monthly magazine is £60 which I presume covers eight issues. Nine at a push if we get to the play-offs.

I'm a programme collector, though, not a magazine collector. So I doubt I'll bother any longer.
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[Dorking]

I went to an FA Cup game last night at what could be described as a village football club. Okay it was a big match for them compared to their usual league fayre, but they managed to produce a programme, and shift a box-full. There will be a hardcore of collectors who buy regardless of the quality, out of habit, so if necessary just cut the page count and bring the content back to basics.

I liked what Colchester did and made a programme part of the admission. Gives kids something to read if nothing else.

[New Forest]

Why are some clubs choosing not to issue programmes? Is it that they are too big and too expensive and then not very good. What ever it alienates supporters.

Last night I saw Walthamstow v Maccabi London Lions in an FA Cup match played in front of a near sell-out crowd (300 being the limit). Cracking programme 40 pages for only £1 and in full colour and mostly original content. It sold out. Print it and they will buy.

Lots of groundhoppers in evidence and some Orient fans who have no live football from their own club at present. Its a chance for non-league clubs to appeal to a few more fans.

[andyjess]

If the news from Derby is true, I'm devastated, and I don't even follow the Rams. It is the start of the end of our hobby methinks. Doom and Gloom I hear you say.
I know clubs like Barnet and Stevenage stopped producing but when a big team (averaging 25-30k every home game) takes such a decision, it is inevitable others will follow suit.
Yes, the big big boys with loadsa money (Mancs, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs, Liverpool, etc) probably will always produce, but in 5-10 years time I predict they will be doing an A4 size production, similar to what is sold in theatres in the West End of London.
The next sized Clubs (eg Derby, Forest, leeds, Wolves etc) will stop production altogether.
The small clubs will still produce probably as long as a club member is prepared to edit the programme, if not they won't.
I think it's a sad day for our hobby, and in a way, we've only ourselves to blame. Magazines such as Programme Monthly have been giving out Divisional awards since the 80's encouraging teams to try and better the other teams in their league. So programmes have got larger in size, more pages added, more colour and we have today modern magazines which to be honest, I don't even read. They get stored away and a tick goes against them in my programme ledger.
Oh, I wish the the halcyon days of the late 60's/early 70's, the smaller than A5 size, 16-24 page, black and white with spot colour production, which was full of information, and mainly advert free.You know the ones I mean, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs, west ham were southern examples. Why can't we go back to that, and charge £1. At least we would have a new generation of collectors, whereas if it stays the way it is, our hobby will die out as no new collectors will be out there, and probably nothing to collect.

[Dorking]

I am surprised they didn't use Covid as an excuse. There was some talk of clubs having to re-evaluate the sale of programmes because of the possibility of transmission, something I believe almost every club has taken no notice of

Would the club be expected to provide copies of teamsheets for those who want them? I went to a game at Stevenage a year ago, and there was a heck of a queue of fans at the club shop, who got to the ground early, but wouldn't go in until they managed to secure a teamsheet!

I remember when fans of the original Wimbledon FC began to protest against their club owners (who later took the club to MK and renamed them etc)

One of their first protests was to not buy any club merchandise, including the matchday programme.

Their own supporters Trust made their own glossy (unofficial) programme, and it outsold the 'official' version, and it was a pretty reasonable effort too.

I believe Derby have quite an established memorabilia collectors society - I wonder if there if the appetite amongst those collector stalwarts to try and get something off the ground? It is a slog for sure - not least the matchday selling, where you can almost guarantee to miss the start of the match, but perhaps the old sellers could be retained.

Programmes can be sold on the streets without a licence, in the same way that the Big Issue can be, because it is a publication.

[Footyfan]

Leeds United, like a lot of clubs, have been down both the Monthly Club Newspaper and Monthly Magazine route.
Neither venture lasted long with both titles foldiing.
EBay is chock full of copies of both for sale with no takers
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12-Leeds-United-Football-magazines-Leeds-Leeds-Leeds-dates-range-1999-2010/233693317509?hash=item3669350985:g:ISsAAOSwTJ1fIsZk
These magazines just do not have the same appeal as a matchday programme.
Looks like a pretty shortsighted decision by DCFC, time will tell.

[Five and In]

As others have said, it could be the beginning of the end for the modern programme if others follow suit.

That said, I have no time for the bumper size efforts we have these days.
As andyjess said earlier, I don't read them and just filed them away up until a couple of years ago when I stopped buying them completely apart from special ones like the last match at The Lane and the first at the new stadium.
I go back as far as the 1920's with my collection.

I don't think the hobby will die though.
There will always be collectors for the older items and as the years pass by, some of the 70's/80s ones will become of interest again as they too become "the older items"

[Pacey Winger]

My own club (Stirling Albion) also ditched the programme a few years back in favour of a monthly magazine but it only lasted three seasons or so and we are now back at a matchday programme. Like others, i hope Derby do the same in the fullness of time.

Its down to cost, sales and revenue i guess. Speaking to people in the know, even Celtic and Rangers up here dont sell masses of programmes despite regullar 50k crowds. Indeed the figures quoted to me were about 3k to 7k which i found incredible.

[colchestersid]

Pacey makes an interesting point - if clubs are only reaching 10-15% of their supporters at each game with their programmes then that may be a greater consideration than making a small profit (or loss). Why go to all the trouble of issuing when you can just tweet 22 million followers at no cost (Manchester United) or even 68,000 (Colchester United)? Even clubs at step 8 of the pyramid routinely have 5,000+ followers on Twitter

I'm sure I remember seeing some stats on sales from the 70s when West Ham regularly sold 20,000+ programmes for each game so reached 60-70% of the crowd - those days are long gone

[andyjess]

Re your last paragraph Sid, If it was a 24 page A5 size programme, selling for a pound, West ham would sell 20,000 every week and so would most clubs imo.

[kenners46]

My 18 yr old son hasnt even read a programme in all the time ive been going with him. He even sells programmes at the game and doesnt even flick through them.

[Pacey Winger]

I guess it boils down to what does a programme offer to the younger generation of footy fans that the various social media accounts dont.

At the risk of being cheeky, i would hazard a guess that the membership of this forum are of a "certain age" where the programme was the main source of team news, transfer talk and manager thoughts.

Nowadays all that can be accessed by phone, in fact during lockdown, the Albion hosted a zoom meeting with the fans, board members and manager!.....Programmes struggle to cope with that.

Like previously mentioned, my oldest is football daft but has no interest in my programme collection......

Probably debated to death on here previous to my joining right enough but i do fear for the hobby for this reason

[smk06]

From what I understand, despite Derby's average home attendance being over 25,000, the print run of programmes is below 5000 each game and many of those do not sell.

I see very few fans at games holding or reading a programme. Society has changed and information is consumed in a different way to the pre-internet days so clubs are now being forced to adapt. It's a shame, but unfortunately this decision has been coming for a few years.
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Derby County home wants:
1982/83 Sunderland Fr (s/s)
Reds v Whites & Whites v Blues 1948-1957
1946/47 Arsenal post 5/2

Derby County away wants:
1968/69 Carlisle post 8/2/69
1946/47 Middlesbrough, Liverpool
1945/46 West Brom

Also looking for Guiseley home programmes pre-1980s.

[Fishy]

A very interesting read with some surprising information - especially the low sales compared to high gates.

It has been touched on above about 'modern technology' and the ease with which fans can access info about any team these days.

The costs of producing a programme are not just the printing - everything in it will have a financial cost and, if sales are dwindling to the extent mentioned, then I can't see many surviving in the relatively near future.

I'd be all for going back to the simpler days of a small issue with a few adverts in them. On that point, adverts have been in programmes from when they started (no, I'm not that old ).

I was under the impression that clubs had to produce match day programmes - probably another dream of mine.
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47/8 Coventry.
48/9 Newport.
49/0 Walsall; Exeter.
50/1 Port Vale.
51/2 Port Vale 1/5.
52/3 Swindon.

[Dorking]

Clubs should see programmes as an opportunity to promote everything that they do, the work in the community, womens and development teams, the marketing/corporate events, ticket information, fixtures etc.

They could be 16 pages, like the free England magazines you used to get every England game 'Free Lions', squad lists and officials on the back, fixture list on one page, ticket news on another, Managers comments, and then 12 pages of anything you like. Collectors will be just about content, club has a marketing vehicle.

The thinned down Villa programmes from lockdown were excellent.

[Footyfan]

In recent years Teamsheets have become the norm at many clubs, why buy a glossy programme when all the info you need is available on a Single Sheet free of charge?
Gone are the days when you needed a programme to check fixtures, half time scores etc.
Ironically, matchday programmes started out as single sheet issues and even in the 1960s some of the hardest to find early League Cup issues are Single Sheet jobs.

[se20blue]

Footyfan wrote:

In recent years Teamsheets have become the norm at many clubs, why buy a glossy programme when all the info you need is available on a Single Sheet free of charge? Gone are the days when you needed a programme to check fixtures, half time scores etc. Ironically, matchday programmes started out as single sheet issues and even in the 1960s some of the hardest to find early League Cup issues are Single Sheet jobs.

In the 60's we did not have photocopiers,only the faithful Gestetner(for younger readers Google it)
Keith I remember producing Thameside Programme Club newsletters on a Gestetner.
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Ipswich Town programmes required,please message me if you are able to help
9/2/46 Norwich City A
29/3/47 Port Vale A