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Stalybridge Celtic

 
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colchestersid



Joined: 08 Mar 2009
Posts: 298

PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:18 pm 
Post subject: Stalybridge Celtic
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https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/STALYBRIDGE-CELTIC-v-TRANMERE-ROVERS-1923-4-EXCEPTIONALLY-RARE-ITEM/264765676942?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

That's a lot of money to pay for a game against Tranmere Rovers Reserves in the Cheshire County League. Maybe the buyer didn't realise Stalybridge dropped out of the Football League at the end of the previous season?
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cardiff55



Joined: 22 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:21 pm 
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I never like the private bidding ones.
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TheSorter!



Joined: 07 May 2016
Posts: 187

PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:41 pm 
Post subject: stalybridge
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Is anybody put off by bidders' identity being shown in an Ebay listing? If so, why? I'm interested to know Sherlock
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sharrowblade
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:23 pm 
Post subject: Re: stalybridge
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TheSorter! wrote:
Is anybody put off by bidders' identity being shown in an Ebay listing? If so, why? I'm interested to know Sherlock


Bidders identity being shown....no

Bidders identity hidden....yes
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garyspain



Joined: 24 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:19 pm 
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Bids were late though and normally dodgy bids are made early.

Dodgy bids would be 1,999 as well not over the 2K

Experienced seller as well and given the starting price he was expecting it to go well.
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sharrowblade
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:51 pm 
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garyspain wrote:
Bids were late though and normally dodgy bids are made early.

Dodgy bids would be 1,999 as well not over the 2K

Experienced seller as well and given the starting price he was expecting it to go well.


Not implying there was anything dodgy Gary,.... just saying that on a personal preference I would stay clear of any private listing.

The cynic in me would always ask why the need for secrecy, what is there actually to hide?
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kcs



Joined: 29 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:29 pm 
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I think if the item is not considered a rare item then there shouldn't be a need to hide the buyers identity.
However on high value items like the stalybridge issue then I can see why the listing may be private. Not everyone wants people to know they are spending high amounts.
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sharrowblade
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:09 pm 
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kcs wrote:
I think if the item is not considered a rare item then there shouldn't be a need to hide the buyers identity.
However on high value items like the stalybridge issue then I can see why the listing may be private. Not everyone wants people to know they are spending high amounts.


Lets be honest... private listings are not done for the benefit of the buyers.
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manchesterunitedman1



Joined: 17 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:33 am 
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sharrowblade wrote:
kcs wrote:
I think if the item is not considered a rare item then there shouldn't be a need to hide the buyers identity.
However on high value items like the stalybridge issue then I can see why the listing may be private. Not everyone wants people to know they are spending high amounts.


Lets be honest... private listings are not done for the benefit of the buyers.


Clap well said Sharrow-well said!.

I avoid Private Auctions wherever possible-make up your own conclusions. Wave

Here is one i baked earlier Laughing

https://flic.kr/p/2hMS1Qg
https://flic.kr/p/2hMS1YY
https://flic.kr/p/2hMPqbn
https://flic.kr/p/2hMPqkR
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1000's more images to be uploaded, to view the latest uploads go to www.flickr.com/photos/manchesterunitedman1/

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TheMusic



Joined: 13 Aug 2011
Posts: 521

PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:07 pm 
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sharrowblade wrote:
kcs wrote:
I think if the item is not considered a rare item then there shouldn't be a need to hide the buyers identity.
However on high value items like the stalybridge issue then I can see why the listing may be private. Not everyone wants people to know they are spending high amounts.


Lets be honest... private listings are not done for the benefit of the buyers.


Let's be honest... that's a generalisation which is simply not true in all cases.

On the relatively rare occasions I sell on ebay I nearly always make auctions private because it is not for me to force bidders to have to show their identities, feedback numbers... etc. Some bidders may not want people close to them to how much they're spending, some may not want other collectors knowing what they have or from where they've found an item.

Ultimately it's got nothing to do with anyone else who's bidding on what - you bid your maximum whenever you want during the auction and if you win the auction, great, and if you don't, bad luck and on to the next one. That's how I see it anyway.
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se20blue



Joined: 21 Jul 2014
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:59 pm 
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Private bidders = shill bidders paradise.
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Ipswich Town programmes required,please message me if you are able to help
12/9/45 Walsall A
9/2/46 Norwich City A
29/3/47 Port Vale A
1/11/47 Port Vale A
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sharrowblade
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:00 pm 
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TheMusic wrote:
sharrowblade wrote:
kcs wrote:
I think if the item is not considered a rare item then there shouldn't be a need to hide the buyers identity.
However on high value items like the stalybridge issue then I can see why the listing may be private. Not everyone wants people to know they are spending high amounts.


Lets be honest... private listings are not done for the benefit of the buyers.


Let's be honest... that's a generalisation which is simply not true in all cases.

On the relatively rare occasions I sell on ebay I nearly always make auctions private because it is not for me to force bidders to have to show their identities, feedback numbers... etc. Some bidders may not want people close to them to how much they're spending, some may not want other collectors knowing what they have or from where they've found an item .


Perhaps, but I don't really buy that argument.

Are we being asked to accept that this practice devolves from concerned sellers out there protecting potential customers from the wife finding out, in all seriousness its a football programme, its not porn or a Banksy.

Most collectors I suspect, wouldn't be able to contain themselves with their rival (if that's the correct term) collectors,.... if they got one that their fellow peers had not.

Experience suggests that some collectors can be secretive, but usually that implies to the ones they haven't got, not what they have.
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manchesterunitedman1



Joined: 17 Jan 2010
Posts: 2933
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:13 pm 
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sharrowblade wrote:
TheMusic wrote:
sharrowblade wrote:
kcs wrote:
I think if the item is not considered a rare item then there shouldn't be a need to hide the buyers identity.
However on high value items like the stalybridge issue then I can see why the listing may be private. Not everyone wants people to know they are spending high amounts.


Lets be honest... private listings are not done for the benefit of the buyers.


Let's be honest... that's a generalisation which is simply not true in all cases.

On the relatively rare occasions I sell on ebay I nearly always make auctions private because it is not for me to force bidders to have to show their identities, feedback numbers... etc. Some bidders may not want people close to them to how much they're spending, some may not want other collectors knowing what they have or from where they've found an item .


Perhaps, but I don't really buy that argument.

Are we being asked to accept that this practice devolves from concerned sellers out there protecting potential customers from the wife finding out, in all seriousness its a football programme, its not porn or a Banksy.

Most collectors I suspect, wouldn't be able to contain themselves with their rival (if that's the correct term) collectors,.... if they got one that their fellow peers had not.

Experience suggests that some collectors can be secretive, but usually that implies to the ones they haven't got, not what they have.


MORE common sense talk from this Sharrow! Nod Wave
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Leslie Millman
Twitter: @manyuman1

To see 17,000+ original images relating to Newton Heath & Manchester Utd 1878-2020 then visit www.flickr.com/photos/manchesterunitedman1/sets to see entire uploads.

1000's more images to be uploaded, to view the latest uploads go to www.flickr.com/photos/manchesterunitedman1/

Click any images-15.8+ MILLION views to date to the Flickr site since 2007 growing every day. New Uploads weekly. Thank You to one & all for visiting!
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Cantona93



Joined: 18 Oct 2010
Posts: 118

PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:11 am 
Post subject: Stalybridge Celtic
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sharrowblade wrote:
TheMusic wrote:
sharrowblade wrote:
kcs wrote:
I think if the item is not considered a rare item then there shouldn't be a need to hide the buyers identity.
However on high value items like the stalybridge issue then I can see why the listing may be private. Not everyone wants people to know they are spending high amounts.


Lets be honest... private listings are not done for the benefit of the buyers.


Let's be honest... that's a generalisation which is simply not true in all cases.

On the relatively rare occasions I sell on ebay I nearly always make auctions private because it is not for me to force bidders to have to show their identities, feedback numbers... etc. Some bidders may not want people close to them to how much they're spending, some may not want other collectors knowing what they have or from where they've found an item .


Perhaps, but I don't really buy that argument.

Are we being asked to accept that this practice devolves from concerned sellers out there protecting potential customers from the wife finding out, in all seriousness its a football programme, its not porn or a Banksy.

Most collectors I suspect, wouldn't be able to contain themselves with their rival (if that's the correct term) collectors,.... if they got one that their fellow peers had not.

Experience suggests that some collectors can be secretive, but usually that implies to the ones they haven't got, not what they have.


I couldn’t agree more. I have seen a number of private listings where the bidding simply cannot be trusted as genuine and the resultant ‘sale prices’ are exorbitant.
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TheMusic



Joined: 13 Aug 2011
Posts: 521

PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:06 am 
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For some reason, I don't really feel concerned about what seems to be some people's core problem here, which seems to be outrage that people can't bid solely alongside others wanting a certain item, mainly because a seller covertly deploys a third party to bid up to a minimum acceptable amount - is this the situation?

It seems a seller has the simple choice of setting a reasonable (or what some of us may regard as unacceptably high) starting price and thus potentially scaring off some bidders, or setting a low starting price and trying to tempt people looking for an item they regard as reasonably priced (or a bargain).

Personally, if I ever sell items, I usually opt for the former with a Best Offer facility because it's clear, protects my 'asset' and saves me time (albeit I probably lose bidders). The latter option of a low price to start was perhaps more advisable 10-15 years ago (wow, time flies on eBay too) when the market was much more buoyant and items were more likely to attract multiple bidders.

However, a seller who still prefers the latter option of a 0.99 starting bid (or similar) has to decide whether to risk it failing and losing it for a song, setting a reserve (which eBay charges for) or asking someone to bid up the item to ensure they achieve an acceptable price for them. In a way, isn't this similar to pacemaking in athletics?! I mean the pacemaker (s) has no intention of winning the race - they are just there to speed up the race and improve the result, and clearly not everyone in the field is focused on winning.

Here, it's similar, except the presence of a 'pacemaker' is less overt (esp. in a private auction; we have to spot it by identifying names, numbers of feedbacks... etc) but the effect is the same - the result is improved by 'artificial' means and all participants (bidders) have the choice of whether to compete or not. No one is being forced to bid an amount against their will and they can still enter their maximum acceptable bid - if they win, great, if they don't, never mind (perhaps the seller will offer it to them as the underbidder so they may get another chance).

So, is the problem that people don't like that a seller has covertly arranged for someone to bid an item up to a minimum sale price?

Would it be more acceptable if it were permitted and declared in the description?

If eBay actually allowed this practice alongside the option of a reserve price, would it make any difference?

Could eBay actually eliminate shillbidding themselves by making reserve prices free to use?

Have we perhaps become conditioned to the online auction and fallen so much in love with the chance of a bargain or to expand our collections more regularly than in the past (due to the range of items on offer there), that we forget that 20 years ago, we were arguably in a worse position, i.e. without eBay, postal bids to dealers' offers lists or to sellers in Programme Monthly/Boot... etc would simply mean your highest bid with no chance to 'save' some of that money?

In conclusion, I'm not a fan of items being 'bid up' either, but I can see the usefulness for a seller protecting the value of their asset while attracting the most interested parties. Maybe I could tolerate the practice if it would be openly declared by a seller that they'd be ensuring a sale at a certain amount at least (tbh I'd prefer it if eBay would make reserve prices free to use, like traditional auction houses do).

I realise this is unlikely though, so meanwhile, as bidders, perhaps we could be more ready to only care about what we can control, i.e. what we can afford/our maximum bids, and not get hung up on always winning items for the prices we want?

By doing this, perhaps sellers and buyers might become more tolerant of each others' priorities, communicate more and become more open to compromise on many (granted, not necessarily all) items on the market. This may result in fewer excellent bargains for collectors and fewer huge sales for sellers... but perhaps there might be more deals done to the satisfaction of everyone?
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kcs



Joined: 29 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:10 pm 
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My point is that on some choice items buyers may not want other people to know they are bidding on it, I don't mean to hide it from the wife.

I mean from fellow collectors and sellers etc.

On the majority of items, let's say less than £100 then I cannot see why it should be private.

However, I am not saying that the private listing 'feature' is only there for this reason - I fully get it can be abused by sellers wishing to 'shill' bid.

If you look at sales on here, how many are conducted in the public domain - very few, majority are done via private messages or emails.

The offers list is a private affair.

Sales on Facebook groups are usually concluded via DM.

Auctions houses offer a telephone and internet bid - does this mean that they offer a dodgy practice to bump up prices?

Would a private listing stop me bidding - no, I enter the maximum I am willing to pay and that is that. If I win within that I am in my budget. Which would be within my perceived market value.

I hope the above explains my original point
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1980Cossie



Joined: 16 May 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:11 pm 
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I used to have in my Halifax collection the only known Stalybridge Celtic football league home programme. It was from the first season of the newly formed Division 3 North in 1921/22 and was dated 15th October 1921 (although the cover had a print error and wrongly stated it was from the 1920-21 season) - It cost me almost 3 times more than the one sold on eBay recently to obtain.

The one on eBay would have been sought after by first and last collectors amongst others as this was their first season as a non-league club after dropping out of the league.





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