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Dorking



Joined: 05 Feb 2010
Posts: 1911

PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:54 pm 
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Next up another players pass, this time from 1959



It is nowhere near as nicely made as the 1930's era ones!

Palace were a Division 4 club at this time, and there was no criticism of driving motor cars any more! There was however a page of uplifting sayings, such as United we stand, divided we fall, and a chain is only as strong as its weakest link (and other such stuff!)



Sadly it's suffered the fate of rusty staples, but is now in a safe and warm, dry place where it won't deteriorate any further.
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Dorking



Joined: 05 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:02 pm 
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On we move to 1981. The players pass was now separate from the 'training instructions' (two separate booklets), and was made EVEN more cheaply! (I have both)





The management's home phone numbers were all listed, and the (many pages) of rules were pretty strict to be honest! But then, give an inch and young men probably would try and take a mile!

I honestly don't know if Palace ever kept making these into the really modern era - I suspect they stopped some time in the 1980s, although I do have a 1984 Leicester one that belonged to Mark Bright (who went on the become a Palace and Sheffield Wednesday star player)
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Dorking



Joined: 05 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:09 pm 
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Finally, a very modern item, a stewards instructional booklet from just a couple of years ago.

Someone sold this on ebay, presumably an ex-employee trying to cash in on something that otherwise they might have chucked in the bin. Seeing it for sale, I was so curious I had to have it, and strangely nobody else even bid for it (can't think why!)

It is pretty mundane really, but gives you an idea of all the different responsibilities and protocols that go into the job of a ground steward.





It was interesting to read that they shouldn't be watching the game, nor should they celebrate anything that happens in the match!

Maybe in 30 years time, when every fan has an interactive tablet on the back of the seat in front, and under-seat heating, we will look back at old documents like this with some amusement.
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GBE



Joined: 30 Nov 2019
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:37 pm 
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Nice items Dorking and always happy to see.
Always good to see pride in a collection!
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bluejames



Joined: 30 Mar 2016
Posts: 169

PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:18 pm 
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superb

Thank goodness you have joined the willy waving competition as some would call it


Easy Easy

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Dorking



Joined: 05 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:59 pm 
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Although I'm not into doing this on a massive scale, because it's a faff taking the pic, uploading from the camera to the computer, then reducing the size of the picture before uploading it to this site, I am happy to do it for anything specific if someone has a particular interest they want to talk about about though.

I can bore people to tears with my Palace "Soccerstarz" (bobbleheads) figures collection!!!

Anyway, last one for a wee while, this photo was already on my computer, so didn't take any time at all, it is Don Rogers tracksuit jacket from 1972.



The back story (if you are still reading!) is that Palace changed manager in 1972 from long serving Bert Head, to flashy big head Malcolm Allison. Within 3 months, Palace were relegated from Div 1 to Div 2!

Being quite a 'confident' guy, he thought Palace would walk promotion from Div 2 back to the top flight. For the first game of the season in Div 2 he came up with a gimmick - each Palace player had a tracksuit jacket for the warm up, with their nickname on the back. Most of these nicknames were made up just for this purpose! Don Rogers was the (ageing) former star player who did very well at Swindon. He was lumbered with the nickname 'Trouble Maker'!

Needless to say, Palace were both overconfident of their own abilities, and utterly awful, and were relegated again that season, straight through to Div 3! The nicknames idea didn't last more than a few games!

The jacket I got in an auction just under 10 years ago. I got the frame (it was a random framed shirt) from a second hand shop in Great Yarmouth for a fiver, and put the jacket in the frame and added the plaque and pictures myself.

There certainly isn't two of this!
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bluejames



Joined: 30 Mar 2016
Posts: 169

PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:06 am 
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It's great that you have the history as well as the item,Dorking

Following on with your theme of players personal artifacts i show the contracts of 3 Manchester United players who died in the Munich Air Disaster.These contracts were in filing cabinets at Old Trafford.
They were thrown out when the club built a new cantilever stand for the 1966 World Cup(The stand was later demolished as in now the 3 tier Sir Alex Ferguson stand)
These contracts belonged to Mark Jones,Geoff Bent and Tommy Taylor respectively.They show that the players got £15 a week in winter and £12 a week in summer(Due to the wages cap)
Also shown is a note to Jeff Whitefoot "begging to desire to retain his services".Jeff was United's youngest ever player who eventually lost his place to Duncan Edwards and thus joined Nottingham Forest
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/7478634238/in/album-72157630369390864/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/7478647572/in/album-72157630369390864/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/7478652382/in/album-72157630369390864/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/7478704470/in/album-72157630369390864/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/7478704470/in/album-72157630369390864/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/7871867420/in/album-72157630369390864/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/7871867420/in/album-72157630369390864/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/27798455516/in/album-72157630369390864/
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Dorking



Joined: 05 Feb 2010
Posts: 1911

PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:16 am 
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I do have a few items that came from when Palace randomly had office/club clearouts and just chucked whole lots of stuff out!

as an example On ebay right now is this auction, nothing rare to be honest, just some leftover corporate gifts

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cyrstal-Palace-Football-Memorabillia-Autographs-Pictures-Vintage-Rare-Job-Lot/254365728620?hash=item3b3960ff6c:g:ZngAAOSwzCJdcUn2


but also this lot

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/crystal-palace-signed-shirts-And-Other-Items/254365727927?hash=item3b3960fcb7:g:QvAAAOSwfctdcUsM

which includes a Viareggio (foreign youth tournament) presentation item from 1990

I got a load of old players passes from the 1980s via one such office clearout

Personally I have more than enough obscure stuff to be able to pass up these lots, but it is amazing how some stuff from backs of drawers eventually finds its way to collectors!
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bluejames



Joined: 30 Mar 2016
Posts: 169

PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:41 am 
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I have had to draw the line at Manchester United "modern" corporate stuff.There is mountains of it about that they give to everybody they can screw a lump of money out of.
That includes sponsors,box holders,fund raisers,charity fund raisers for the so called Glazer charity foundation etc
They are everything including a pen,a paperweight,an engraved coin a signed ball(there is a lad in the office who signs better than the players),signed shirts etc
There are also tons of modern players gifts.When they go on pre season tours and the likes for the mighty Hitachi Cup or the Dubai all comers trophy they give the players piles of junk that they just leave in the dressing room.
Even players shirts surface at the end of the season when one seson ends and they get a new sponsor they just chuck away the old genuine players shirts

I do like the early players gifts
They were so corny like fountain pens(This one was given to United player John Doherty by Borussia Dortmund for the first season in Europe)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6677701379/in/album-72157628820207739/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/6[email protected]/6677723295/in/album-72157628820207739/

and an alarm clock when Celtic played Manchester United
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6677731435/in/album-72157628820207739/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6677739501/in/album-72157628820207739/

and a plastic cigarette lighter from Juventus v Manchester United
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/7007503656/in/album-72157628820207739/

Tottenham Hotspur presented United players with alcohol flasks when they toured Swaziland in 1983
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/7993598455/in/album-72157628820207739/

I have a mountain of "modern" gifts in a display case,that to be honest i don't really like.It's just the collecting bug i suppose and you/i don't know where to stop

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Dorking



Joined: 05 Feb 2010
Posts: 1911

PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:20 pm 
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Indeed!
Palace played a friendly in Athens in 1991, and the host club gave CPFC the most tacky metallic 'picture' (if you can call it that) of the Parthenon in Athens

It really has to be seen to be believed.

When Palace had a clearout, they gave it to the club historian, and when he cleared out his garage, he gave it to me, on account of me being the only nut-nut daft enough to give it a home

Even I keep it in the back of a cupboard - it's hideous (plus it has rust spots from the time in the garage!)

I'll try to remember to upload a pic next time I do a batch
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bluejames



Joined: 30 Mar 2016
Posts: 169

PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:04 pm 
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When Manchester United played in Israel they gave the players a touristy piece of crap that is meant to be the Temple Mount.
It has gone rusty!!
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bluejames



Joined: 30 Mar 2016
Posts: 169

PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:34 pm 
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So back to the willy waving

Seriously i am posting for interest and hopefully amusement.If anybody else wishes to post re the love of their life please do.
This is forum for football mad people.There is a section that ass you to show YOUR collection.That is all i am doing.Please join in as indeed Dorking proudly has to show of the items he is proud of and the stories that go with it.

We are approaching 110 years at Old Trafford and the museum are putting on an exhibition to show how the ground has been used in that time.
I have loaned them several items.They are
1
A programme from the first ever FA Cup match at Old Trafford
From 1910/11 comes Manchester United v Aston Villa
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/8422183765/in/album-72157632627271455/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/8423300280/in/album-72157632627271455/

2 A real photo postcard of the captains of the British Army v the Belgium army who played a game at the end of world war 1 in November 1917

3 They also took some badges that were used by stewards and the likes in the 1920's and 1930's.I have shown these before
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/7628330600/in/album-72https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/7628350844/in/album-72157630708557026/157630708557026/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/8641426275/in/album-72157630708557026/

I really look forward to others joining in and showing their collection
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Dorking



Joined: 05 Feb 2010
Posts: 1911

PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:21 pm 
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I do have an original copy (not the reprint) of the programme for the first game at Selhurst Park, which was in 1924. Well you have to don't you! It is my avatar (the red programme under my username on the left here <<)

It's certainly not unique though, as I've seen one other sold and I suspect a few others will be in collections that never see the light of day!
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Dorking



Joined: 05 Feb 2010
Posts: 1911

PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:37 pm 
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I do like 60's and 70's merch which is very much 'of its time' - I like the fact that it already looks quite dated !

This is a late 1970s bag, it's in great condition, and I suspect almost no original one the same have survived in this condition, as they don't last long, and weren't made to last!




From the same era, a plastic belt. Absolute fun item, they don't make stuff like this any more!




This sort of old stuff really has a very small niche following. People who 'get it' from a design and 'retro' interest as much as anything. Most people see it as old out of date clutter, I see something nostalgic.
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Boxcat



Joined: 10 Jan 2020
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:56 pm 
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Some absolutely fantastic posts from both of you over the last couple of days!

Back to the Manchester United v's Woolwich Arsenal programme from 1907/08 that bluejames posted on 06/01/20, I am fascinated by the extreme rarity of Man Utd / Newton Heath programmes from the pre-Old Trafford days.

Whilst there are a couple of well known scans of Newton Heath items I have only ever seen one other Man Utd programme from the Bank Street days and this is shown below (I hasten to say that I don't own it!). Bizarrely it is the preceding programme, against Everton, from the Woolwich Arsenal game already posted!



The question is are these the only two known to exist or does anybody know of any others?

By the way, it's from the Everton collection so if I'm infringing any copyright regulation I will remove the image immediately.
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bluejames



Joined: 30 Mar 2016
Posts: 169

PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:59 pm 
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The beauty of the items from the 1960's and 1970's is that they were total tat.The sort of stuff you would buy at the seaside.You got a bollocking off your mum when you went home with it but somebody always bought you more at Xmas.Usually a new shirt and shorts
Usually made of plastic it was a bag,a belt,a keyring.
Cheap individual photos of the players etc
And when you look at them now they are still worthless tat but i bet it takes you back to when you were a kid with your dad,grandad and uncle and brother and they were happy times
The game was always played on 3pm on a Saturday and you knew exactly what your plans were

Great times,great memories
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bluejames



Joined: 30 Mar 2016
Posts: 169

PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:27 pm 
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Boxcat wrote:
Some absolutely fantastic posts from both of you over the last couple of days!

Back to the Manchester United v's Woolwich Arsenal programme from 1907/08 that bluejames posted on 06/01/20, I am fascinated by the extreme rarity of Man Utd / Newton Heath programmes from the pre-Old Trafford days.

Whilst there are a couple of well known scans of Newton Heath items I have only ever seen one other Man Utd programme from the Bank Street days and this is shown below (I hasten to say that I don't own it!). Bizarrely it is the preceding programme, against Everton, from the Woolwich Arsenal game already posted!



The question is are these the only two known to exist or does anybody know of any others?

By the way, it's from the Everton collection so if I'm infringing any copyright regulation I will remove the image immediately.


Let me try and help

In the late 1800's and into the 1900's football programmes were regarded as newspapers.As such you had to lodge a copy with the Post Office(All newspapers had to send a copy)
These eventually all ended up in the British Library in London.
In the early days you could go in and ask to see the Newton Heath programme/newspapers and they would just give you the programme file.United actually shared with 2 other clubs.
Shall we be kind and say that not all that went out went back.
When the library realised this and coupled with the fact that the hand damage was wearing the programmes out they put it on microfilm.
To view now you have to book an appointment and you will be given a slot in the reading room.
This is how the Manchester United museum gets its information on the early days
Google British Library and then search for football programmes.In amongst the books you will find sections for many clubs going back to the early days
This is possibly the only time you will see Newton Heath

I don't know if i showed these before.
Not Newton Heath but Manchester United at Bank Street Clayton

Hand wriiten note by the chairman on Bank Street paper
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6171248697/in/album-72157627601465129/

Athletics meeting on Bank St ground
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6171118451/in/album-72157627601465129/

Fixture list whilst at Bank Street in 1903/04
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6368776635/in/album-72157627601465129/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6368790693/in/album-72157627601465129/

And here is the shit hole of a ground that used to choke the players
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6210597000/in/album-72157627601465129/
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Boxcat



Joined: 10 Jan 2020
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:44 pm 
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Very interesting. I never thought about the British Library. I wonder how many early images of programmes they have on microfiche for NH/MU?

I have heard that there are one or two collectors out there with a number of Newton Heath home programmes but have yet to see anything beyond the two or three that I mentioned (the Bazaar programme, the one against The Canadians and senior cup tie against Bolton).

Some great links and images as well Thumbs Up
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bluejames



Joined: 30 Mar 2016
Posts: 169

PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:08 am 
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Today i offer some items from the days of the Busby Babes and Jimmy Murphy
Many have said that without the behind the scenes skills of Jimmy Murphy then Matt Busby would not have been the same.
Jimmy was always very very proud of being Welsh and so in 1951 he took his United Junior team back to the Rhondda Valley to play Pentre to play in a Festival of Britain game
I know there are Welsh collectors and i know there are Fesival of Britain collectors so i hope you enjoy these images of the programme and press photos from the personal collection of the referee,Mr Griffiths from Newport.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6301776206/in/album-72157706061352781/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6301253927/in/album-72157706061352781/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/10666466245/in/album-72157706061352781/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/10666395855/in/album-72157706061352781/

They went back again in 1972 to play a game in honour of Jimmy
The first image of the programme does turn up from time to time but i have never seen another team sheet(the second image).A truly rare item
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/5928936121/in/album-72157706061352781/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/5929503340/in/album-72157706061352781/

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bluejames



Joined: 30 Mar 2016
Posts: 169

PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:05 pm 
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Manchester United play Burnley this week and on offer is a match report from this fixture in December 1917.
This turned out to be a fixed result and as a result a player,George Anderson, was sent to prison for 8 months and banned
I suspect the way Manchester United are playing this season we could do with fixing a few more results
Also shown is the expenses sheet for United goalkeeper Jack Mew who got 15 bob for expenses and meals.I wonder what David de Gea would make of that!!!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/32872576217/in/photolist-HTsHHd-HTsFVW-Ho3LER-2eGUN5Y-2fQ4qVJ-2fTrBi4-2fTrBp6-S5QxDt-S5QxGp-S18zLa-258DK5D-PpSkMQ-299rqYd-FzFGyW-EPK4Zj-22D96PY-22D9bxq-YG7fnw-MFCChE-MyAwvG/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/32872576387/in/photolist-HTsHHd-HTsFVW-Ho3LER-2eGUN5Y-2fQ4qVJ-2fTrBi4-2fTrBp6-S5QxDt-S5QxGp-S18zLa-258DK5D-PpSkMQ-299rqYd-FzFGyW-EPK4Zj-22D96PY-22D9bxq-YG7fnw-MFCChE-MyAwvG/
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