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missing newton heath name to autographs
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missing newton heath name to autographs
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GBE



Joined: 30 Nov 2019
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 11:24 pm 
Post subject: missing newton heath name to autographs
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Good Evening All

I wondered if someone could help with the missing autograph


Alf Farman
William Hood
William Stewart
Andrew Mitchell
Thomas Fitszimmons
Robert Donaldson
John Davies
John ??
Adam Carson

thanks in advance
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Topbidwinsagain



Joined: 11 Sep 2015
Posts: 148

PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:52 am 
Post subject: missing newton heath name to autographs
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Almost certain it is John Hendry---only made 2 appearances for United in total, both in 1892/1893 season.
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GBE



Joined: 30 Nov 2019
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:15 am 
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Morning Topbid,

Thanks, and yes the season you mentioned corresponds to another couple of the players. Just couldn’t locate mr hendry,

Thanks for your quick response!
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Dorking



Joined: 05 Feb 2010
Posts: 2027

PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:37 am 
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Value? (just curious - not a United fan or collector!)
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manchesterunitedman1



Joined: 17 Jan 2010
Posts: 2953
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:06 pm 
Post subject: Re: missing newton heath name to autographs
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Topbidwinsagain wrote:
Almost certain it is John Hendry---only made 2 appearances for United in total, both in 1892/1893 season.


well Manchester United was not born until 1902, put this down to a typo eh Royston.
Laughing Wave
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To see 17,300+ original images relating to Newton Heath & Manchester Utd 1878-2020 then visit www.flickr.com/photos/manchesterunitedman1/sets to see entire uploads.

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manchesterunitedman1



Joined: 17 Jan 2010
Posts: 2953
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:08 pm 
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Dorking wrote:
Value? (just curious - not a United fan or collector!)


oooh a lot Dorking, a real lot-pity I cannot compete in buying them with the big boys Crying or Very sad




Wave
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To see 17,300+ original images relating to Newton Heath & Manchester Utd 1878-2020 then visit www.flickr.com/photos/manchesterunitedman1/sets to see entire uploads.

1000's more images to be uploaded, to view the latest uploads go to www.flickr.com/photos/manchesterunitedman1/

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Topbidwinsagain



Joined: 11 Sep 2015
Posts: 148

PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:16 pm 
Post subject: Re: missing newton heath name to autographs
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manchesterunitedman1 wrote:
Topbidwinsagain wrote:
Almost certain it is John Hendry---only made 2 appearances for United in total, both in 1892/1893 season.


well Manchester United was not born until 1902, put this down to a typo eh Royston.
Laughing Wave


According to the Rothmans book of Football League records Manchester United joined in 1892/1893---what do I know? Bow
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manchesterunitedman1



Joined: 17 Jan 2010
Posts: 2953
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:08 pm 
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Roy my dear fellow,

Rothmans Shmothmans, in 1892-3 Newton Heath entered the First Division for the first time, Ardwick( forerunners of Manchester City) were in the 2nd Division. Newton Heath played under that name until the emd of 1901-2 as bankruptcy was about to happen until a man with a dog met a man who owned a brewery and the rest is history!. 20 times 20 times and all that!

In my article for December PM i write about 1892-3 showing a team photo of Ardwick, if any Manchester City collectors on this forum would like a high res image, just email.me at the address below ok Wave
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Leslie Millman
Twitter: @manyuman1

To see 17,300+ original images relating to Newton Heath & Manchester Utd 1878-2020 then visit www.flickr.com/photos/manchesterunitedman1/sets to see entire uploads.

1000's more images to be uploaded, to view the latest uploads go to www.flickr.com/photos/manchesterunitedman1/

Click any images-16.1 + MILLION views to date to the Flickr site since 2007 growing every day. New Uploads weekly. Thank You to one & all for visiting!
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Kvaratschelia



Joined: 20 Aug 2010
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:31 am 
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Despite the scepticism about their authenticity, it shouldn't be too hard to prove that these are genuine.

If you want to compare signatures, just check the 1911 census which was signed by the head of the household. For example, here is the entry for Thomas Fitzsimmons and - guess what - it is an exact match!

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GBE



Joined: 30 Nov 2019
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:25 am 
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Morning,

That’s great feedback kvaratschelia, thanks.

Also just a note but there really seems to be some condescending comments on this site and overall negativity. I’ve only just joined and have read topics trying to encourage collectors to share and get more involved

From this experience I’d doubt I will participate again. It comes across egotistic rather that helpful.

Thanks topbid and kvaratschelia
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manchesterunitedman1



Joined: 17 Jan 2010
Posts: 2953
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:04 pm 
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manchesterunitedman1 wrote:
Roy my dear fellow,


In my article for December PM i write about 1892-3 showing a team photo of Ardwick, if any Manchester City collectors on this forum would like a high res image, just email.me at the address below ok Wave


Now please do not all rush at once! Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Wave
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Leslie Millman
Twitter: @manyuman1

To see 17,300+ original images relating to Newton Heath & Manchester Utd 1878-2020 then visit www.flickr.com/photos/manchesterunitedman1/sets to see entire uploads.

1000's more images to be uploaded, to view the latest uploads go to www.flickr.com/photos/manchesterunitedman1/

Click any images-16.1 + MILLION views to date to the Flickr site since 2007 growing every day. New Uploads weekly. Thank You to one & all for visiting!
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GBE



Joined: 30 Nov 2019
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:35 pm 
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Evening all,

Maybe the new website should be a new start eh, no one banned and everyone can behave themselves.

I will also post what info I have on the autographs when I get chance. I’ve not been able to get onto the site for 2/3 days. They were purchased from a well known auction house in 2012.
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whosbrianwilson



Joined: 08 Aug 2011
Posts: 208

PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:07 pm 
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So they are legit?
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GBE



Joined: 30 Nov 2019
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:57 pm 
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these were also the same lot number in the auction,
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Topbidwinsagain



Joined: 11 Sep 2015
Posts: 148

PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 12:44 am 
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GBE wrote:





these were also the same lot number in the auction,


Which auction house, name the date of the auction.

Stop the crap, just give the facts.
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wandererpaul



Joined: 05 Feb 2013
Posts: 487
Location: Brentford

PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:26 pm 
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Look closer at the pencil signatures.

Are my eyes deceiving me or are the signatures, signed in pencil, OVER the staining within the paper?

Looks iffy......... this is from an independent point of view as I have no beef with Man U, Chelsea or any other club............bar QPR of course. Wink
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New Forest



Joined: 05 Jun 2017
Posts: 101

PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:46 pm 
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Its been over two weeks since GBE posted the Newton Heath autographs. Since they have been questions as to whether they are authentic or not. There are problems on gaining access to this site but there was time to show some immaterial newspapers but not time to just provide the auction house and date of the auction etc. It leads most readers to assume this is not coming So is the reason for this the fact that GBE has paid a lot of money for something they now realise are fakes. It takes a man or woman to admit they have made a mistake.
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Kvaratschelia



Joined: 20 Aug 2010
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:37 pm 
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Tynie Topics wrote:


I posted that I know who Kvaratschelia is, and that it was exceptionally unlikely he would be part of some far fetched conspiracy. I stand by that.



Cheers!

Yes, I'm still here, haven't vanished, and don't know who the original poster was.

I only post occasionally on this forum because it is mainly a programme forum and I don't really collect programmes any more. There are other forums on football history I use more frequently, such as scottishleague.net

But if you check my history (click on Memberlist and search for my user name to read all my previous posts) I'd like to think I have been helpful to a few people in the past with historical queries. Same in this case, trying to be helpful - isn't that what the forum is for?

While it may seem a bit obscure to recommend the 1911 census -regardless of whether you think the signature is a good match or not - I can only repeat that it is a great research tool. You don't need to know someone's address to find them, I just searched for Fitzsimmons in Manchester. I don't agree that most footballers at the turn of the century were illiterate, the Education Acts of the 1870 and 1880s, which introduced compulsory education for children, saw to that. I haven't searched for the other names in the original post, but if they were still alive in 1911 it shouldn't be too hard to find them.
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Dorking



Joined: 05 Feb 2010
Posts: 2027

PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:16 pm 
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There are a series of very heavy books about the early history (and indeed pre-history) of Crystal Palace FC, called 'The Origin of Crystal Palace' series.

The level of research the author went to is very impressive - he searched old census records, which gave all sorts of info - which players over 100 years ago lodged with each other, how many of them were in 3 bedroomed houses (you'd be amazed by modern standards of accommodation!) and through all sorts of first hand relics, found out about all their movements, what they earned, the contacts they signed etc.

What I am trying to get across, is that if people really want to put in huge amounts of hours searching newspaper archives, register office documents, census records, the British Library etc etc, then you'll be amazed what you can piece together, even from this long ago.

And it may well prove or disprove whatever people have or think they have!

I wouldn't like to state an opinion one way or another, but if the owner of the signatures really wants to get a rel handle on what they think they have, the tools are there!
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goonerboy



Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 1013

PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:59 am 
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"I only post occasionally on this forum because it is mainly a programme forum and I don't really collect programmes any more. There are other forums on football history I use more "

Hi kvaratschelia, please dont worry about justifying your membership on the forum. There is a place on here for everybody whether they post everyday or once a year. Unfortunately "bluejames" or "triple cooked chips 99" or whatever other user ID Ray uses should just be ignored. From observation over time, he seems to act as if belittling others is his true motivation rather than contributing to healthy discussion. He is probably one of those people who try and put other people down in order to make themselves feel better about themselves. His constant boasts about his biggest collection and how much he pays for items and his ridiculous self derived definition of serious collector could be interpreted as being all geared at trying to get admiration. Sadly if he took a step back he would realise it just engenders irritation and ridicule. Dont be put off. He does have a lot of knowledge about manutd stuff in particular but demonstrates very little interpersonal skills so just ignore him. Being ignored will irritate him more than engaging in an argument.
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