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would you pay 1000 for a programme
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colchestersid



Joined: 08 Mar 2009
Posts: 200

PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:53 pm 
Post subject: Re: Bound volumes
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Eddie Reeve wrote:
Question for ColchesterSid? Out of interest did you keep the bound volumes intact or did you split the volumes and just took out the programmes you needed?


I kept all the bound volumes intact and sold my existing programmes from 1958/59 to 1961/62

For the 1962/63 season I already had a bound volume so I had this one "unstitched" so I could sell them individually
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Tynie Topics



Joined: 26 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:34 pm 
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Would I spend 1k on a programme I needed? I'm down to 6 Scotland aways post war that I need and probably three of them would be that figure or more and with credit pretty cheap, I probably would and pay it off if needs be.

As has been pointed out, we perhaps don't give a 1,000 holiday too much thought, and once it's done, it's done with ultimately only memories to fall back on for the outlay. Spend that on a much longed for programme you will get years of enjoyment and then you'll be able to get some or all of it back if needs be, or maybe even a profit. It's a tangible investment.

That said, I'd like to do both if I could!
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bluejames



Joined: 30 Mar 2016
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:39 pm 
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Auchinleckian wrote:
No, I'd never countenance paying anything like that for a programme, unless I knew I could definitely get at least double back on my initial outlay. It's how I've always bought all my football programmes and memorabilia over the last 40 odd years, and I've never, ever, taken a penny out of our joint account to buy anything either. I think it's called sustainability.

Off the top of my head I can't remember having ever paid even 100 for a programme, but my Auchinleck Talbot archive is worth so much more to me than pounds, shillings and pence. Value of it is irrelevant, despite what I spend on it.


Fair enough but now you've understandably got your dealers head on by your own admission
This forum is about dealers and collectors.The fact you mention your joint account and call it sustainability reminds me a lot of folk on this forum who say things like my wife has allowed me a tenner to spend at a programme fair.How would it be at the Auchileck Talbot fair if all your collectors/buyers turned up with an instruction from their wives not to spend more than a quid for for sustainability reasons
I respect the fact that your collection means more to you than shillings and pence but at the level of shillings and pence that is what a collection is worth in monetary value.At 1000 you are in the serious collection field and investment field and there are folk at that level even if there folk who are not at that level.It is not for everybody is it?Especially those that can't afford it or don't want to risk their cash but we are dealing,in my opinion,with at least two different aspects of collecting in this thread. ie those that want it and can afford it and those that want it and can't afford it
An offshoot of the latter is those that wouldn't pay it under any circumstances but the main circumstance is that they can't afford it under ant circumstances
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mustard68



Joined: 24 Aug 2012
Posts: 73

PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:31 pm 
Post subject: would you pay 1000 for a programme
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There are plenty of programmes out there that you simply can not get unless you paid that and more.

I`ve got quite a few in that range which are mostly on my site 10footballs.com but at this point have steered clear of pre WW1 cup finals.
Auction commission itself on these would exceed 1000.

The beauty of the hobby is that there is room for all wallets. Filling up seasons, cups, tournaments, auctions, saleroom, ebay, cataloguing etc. Its a joy at times.

And Gary5256, you are right about Carlisle-Boro. I've got 40 seasons of Boro 63-03 and that's the only one I`m missing. Does anyone out there actually have it?
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Auchinleckian
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Joined: 21 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:41 pm 
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bluejames wrote:
Auchinleckian wrote:
No, I'd never countenance paying anything like that for a programme, unless I knew I could definitely get at least double back on my initial outlay. It's how I've always bought all my football programmes and memorabilia over the last 40 odd years, and I've never, ever, taken a penny out of our joint account to buy anything either. I think it's called sustainability.

Off the top of my head I can't remember having ever paid even 100 for a programme, but my Auchinleck Talbot archive is worth so much more to me than pounds, shillings and pence. Value of it is irrelevant, despite what I spend on it.


Fair enough but now you've understandably got your dealers head on by your own admission
This forum is about dealers and collectors.The fact you mention your joint account and call it sustainability reminds me a lot of folk on this forum who say things like my wife has allowed me a tenner to spend at a programme fair.How would it be at the Auchileck Talbot fair if all your collectors/buyers turned up with an instruction from their wives not to spend more than a quid for for sustainability reasons
I respect the fact that your collection means more to you than shillings and pence but at the level of shillings and pence that is what a collection is worth in monetary value.At 1000 you are in the serious collection field and investment field and there are folk at that level even if there folk who are not at that level.It is not for everybody is it?Especially those that can't afford it or don't want to risk their cash but we are dealing,in my opinion,with at least two different aspects of collecting in this thread. ie those that want it and can afford it and those that want it and can't afford it
An offshoot of the latter is those that wouldn't pay it under any circumstances but the main circumstance is that they can't afford it under ant circumstances


I'm not a dealer though. I do sell second hand programmes for my club to raise money for them. I gave up dealing after a brief two year fling at it when I took early retirement.

Do I consider myself to be a serious collector? To be honest I don't even know what you mean by that. I collect anything and everything to do with my club, and I suppose I'm lucky that whatever I want to get I usually can (a) because the club is very good to me (b) the fans are very good to me as they all know about my collecting habits (c) the vast majority of stuff is readily available.

I thought I had the oldest Auchinleck home programmes, from the 1980-81 season that had only turned up a couple of years ago. Then a fan came into the programme shop at the ground one matchday and said "have a look at these" and there were 11 foolscap size single sheet issues from 1971-2 and 1972-3. We did a deal, he went away 100 happier and I got 11 programmes for my collection that until then I didn't know existed.

My collecting habits are more memorabilia based now than programmes. I don't collect programmes any more apart from those we play in the senior Scottish Cup, and those from when we reach a Junior Cup Final. Again, it's very manageable and it makes it very easy to collect. These are historical seasons and I tend to gravitate towards such scenarios nowadays.

I had credit once, when I first got married in 1977, hated having the debt, and have never had it since so unlike Tynie would never find msyelf in a position of thinking "mmm...." Doesn't stop me from having a great collection of stuff that will ultimately return to the club upon my demise, and I hope there will b sufficient material there for a decent museum.

Club badges - I commission them myself so have everything I need in that respect. Matchday pennants - I have 83 of these relating to specific games, or records of honours won in a paticular season. Many of these are the ones handed over at the start of an important game. Club letters, photos, tickets, most of the stuff I've got cost me nothing, or a contribution to our pitch regeneration fund.

If I'm ever in the position where somebody contacts me personally to try and sell me something that I would not want for my collection that is when I base my buying price on what I can realistically get back for it, and the proceeds from that go into the other area of collecting which is football books. I have a semi decent library now, and something like 600 club histories at every grade of the game. Again though, they've all been bought without touching anything from our joint account - something I'm really proud of.

We're all different in terms of what we collect, how we collect - and indeed how we fund it - but I still enjoy the thrill of the chase. I'm one programme short of a complete set of Junior Cup Final season's programmes, and that was only three years ago. It's proving very elusive, but I know I'll get it one day as someone will come into the hut and say "Is this the one you've been looking for John?"

Can't wait for the new season as we've qualified for the senior Scottish Cup again this season so more for me to collect. Favourite item from last year's run to the 5th round was a pie holder from Tynecastle that now sits proudly in my Scottish Cup box!
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Tynie Topics



Joined: 26 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:53 pm 
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I think John is in an almost unique situation as far as collecting his club is concerned as he doesn't need to worry about 1k programmes, because in non-league football in Scotland, programme producing pre-1980 out with Scottish Cup matches and the Junior Cup Final is almost unheard of, very very few games of any sort saw a programme, no clubs produced regular programmes, probably the exception was a few clubs in the Highland League post war.

So whilst you can get non-league in England going back 100 years, in Scotland it really only goes back 40, with a few isolated exceptions, so John can enjoy what he does without the dilemma of big money (maybe 1949 Junior Cup Final excepted which is no doubt the one he is after).

However most other collectors have the dilemma of what to do if a holy grail pops up with a very large price tag. As collectors you start twitching and wondering if you can afford it, if you can, can you justify it, and then can you explain it to the wife! Laughing
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Rocky



Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 1376

PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:29 pm 
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mustard68 wrote:
And Gary5256, you are right about Carlisle-Boro. I've got 40 seasons of Boro 63-03 and that's the only one I`m missing. Does anyone out there actually have it?

I know that a couple of Boro collectors have the elusive 72/3 Carlisle v Boro prog. I've seen a copy go on eBay for circa 450 a long time ago when I didn't have the budget to bid. Another appeared on Sports Programmes offers but needless to say my bid wasn't successful. I'm fortunate to have a colour photocopy though, of which a limited amount surfaced a few years ago. I believe that they are a different size than the original.

Would I pay a 1,000 for the original......mmm
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Auchinleckian
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:23 pm 
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Tynie Topics wrote:
I think John is in an almost unique situation as far as collecting his club is concerned as he doesn't need to worry about 1k programmes, because in non-league football in Scotland, programme producing pre-1980 out with Scottish Cup matches and the Junior Cup Final is almost unheard of, very very few games of any sort saw a programme, no clubs produced regular programmes, probably the exception was a few clubs in the Highland League post war.

So whilst you can get non-league in England going back 100 years, in Scotland it really only goes back 40, with a few isolated exceptions, so John can enjoy what he does without the dilemma of big money (maybe 1949 Junior Cup Final excepted which is no doubt the one he is after).

However most other collectors have the dilemma of what to do if a holy grail pops up with a very large price tag. As collectors you start twitching and wondering if you can afford it, if you can, can you justify it, and then can you explain it to the wife! Laughing


Believe it or not it was away at Beith in the 2016-17 season, the year we lost to Glenafton in the Final. The 1949 Final turns up at least once a year nowadays in the shop, and there's a waiting list for it.

Tynie's right about the Junior grade though. One of the reasons I stopped collecting every programme was because a few years back the club stopped producing for the first five or six games, and as we don't normally produce for midweek games I thought "How am I ever going to get them all if I don't know if they were printed or not?" So I have less than 200 Talbot programmes in my collection, but they are all from significant games / seasons, the thinking being that one day there will be the possibility of a museum at the club and everything's ready made for them.
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CHARTERHOUSE SPORTS



Joined: 11 Mar 2015
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:42 am 
Post subject: 1000 for a programme...
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It's stupidity to pay 1k minimum for a single programme, but there are a couple of big hitters out there, especially when it comes to Manchester United. At the end of the day, your wife or kids throw them out when you pop off or sue you for half of them when they go into auction.
If that happens, I would ask what's the ****ing point of paying that for them in the first place.
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bluejames



Joined: 30 Mar 2016
Posts: 89

PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:18 pm 
Post subject: Re: 1000 for a programme...
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CHARTERHOUSE SPORTS wrote:
It's stupidity to pay 1k minimum for a single programme, but there are a couple of big hitters out there, especially when it comes to Manchester United. At the end of the day, your wife or kids throw them out when you pop off or sue you for half of them when they go into auction.
If that happens, I would ask what's the ****ing point of paying that for them in the first place.


Is it stupidity?
And why "especially" Manchester United?I have seen early cup finals,and pirates at that, sometimes go for 7000 plus.
Same comment for Spurs,Millwall,Hearts,Chelsea
I saw 3 modern West Ham bound volumes sell for over 5000 recently at Staceys.Clearly something very special in them but the buyer took HIS cash and did what he wanted with it.I wouldn't call him stupid.
Your argument is like asking why somebody would pay 100k for a Rolls Royce when he can get around just as well in a shed of a car and if he pops off his wife will sell it to a dealer for half of what he paid or sue him for half when they go into auction.I think the moral of your post is either don't tell your wife or don't get divorced Laughing Laughing
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CHRIS GIBBS



Joined: 14 Feb 2010
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Location: Portsmouth

PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:12 pm 
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On a different note, how many collectors have paid a vast amount for an item and then regretted it? Five years ago I was asked by the relatives of a Pompey fan that had passed away to help dispose of his collection of programmes he had built up over a long period of following them all over the world. He had spend a lot of money building the collection up. On his death he had donated them to the club and as I am part of the History group at the club, sorted it out into Pompey and non Pompey. His Pompey collection will form one of three collections we are trying to build up. The other programmes which he had have been sold on and the money from these sales has gone towards buying other items of memorabilia club related. On doing this I looked at my own buying habits as now only buy one per season of local teams I watch, even if I attend more that one of their games. This being to keep down the number of programmes due to lack of storage space and I don't want someone to have to do the same for me when I get to old to look after them as they will be worth less.
And despite only needing one home southern floodlit challenge cup tie single sheet programme to complete my Pompey collection back to the war, I would not pay 1000 for it.
My point is, if you spend a lot of money on an item, are you sure where the collection will end up when you go to the big fair in the Sky! and could you have spent it more wisely!
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Carlisleprogs



Joined: 30 Jun 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:57 am 
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The Carlisle v Middlesbrough 1972/3 programme is incredibly rare. A fire at the printers the night before the match meant that all programmes due to be sold were destroyed.

The only issues left were a few (probably less than a dozen) that had been sent in to the club the day before for proof reading.

I purchased my programme for 50p about twenty five years ago from the Sports Programmes main catalogue. I couldn't believe it when the programme was listed for general sale. I managed to get through on the phone and was surprised when it was still available.

I was on tenterhooks for about 5 days until it arrived. I expected that Sports Programmes would realise the true value and not send it. However, it arrived safely and is my "best ever bargain". Very honourable of Sports Programmes too.
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GARY5256



Joined: 26 Feb 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:10 am 
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Good for you and I'm delighted it found a good home. And for the avoidance of doubt, I would pay 1,000 for that programme.
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pafcprogs



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:11 am 
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That's a great story. I remember the days of dial and redial waiting for Tony Mattews dulcet tones to finally answer and then going through the agonising, yes that's available, no that's gone programme bingo!

I also recall long phone conversations with Peter Pickup when his catalogue came out...and paying the princely sum of 25 for a Man United pre war v Plymouth...which at the time was the most i had ever paid ( student grants were better in those days Smile_
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Most Plymouth post war but plenty of others Cup Finals Internationals and Club issues, handbooks and other sports.
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Auchinleckian
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:19 am 
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pafcprogs wrote:
That's a great story. I remember the days of dial and redial waiting for Tony Mattews dulcet tones to finally answer and then going through the agonising, yes that's available, no that's gone programme bingo!

I also recall long phone conversations with Peter Pickup when his catalogue came out...and paying the princely sum of 25 for a Man United pre war v Plymouth...which at the time was the most i had ever paid ( student grants were better in those days Smile_


Pickup Programmes - the catalogue with the un pc covers!
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mark01



Joined: 13 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:21 am 
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The most I've paid for a programme is around the 300 mark and that was probably 12-15 years ago.

That was for Nottingham Forest v Bristol City - 1st season of the League Cup - since then I've not seen one offered elsewhere.

I don't have an e bay account now, so cant be sure that one has been sold there.

Would be interested if any Forest collectors have one in their collection.


regards, Mark
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Rocky



Joined: 15 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:13 pm 
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Carlisleprogs wrote:
The Carlisle v Middlesbrough 1972/3 programme is incredibly rare. A fire at the printers the night before the match meant that all programmes due to be sold were destroyed.

The only issues left were a few (probably less than a dozen) that had been sent in to the club the day before for proof reading.

I purchased my programme for 50p about twenty five years ago from the Sports Programmes main catalogue. I couldn't believe it when the programme was listed for general sale. I managed to get through on the phone and was surprised when it was still available.

I was on tenterhooks for about 5 days until it arrived. I expected that Sports Programmes would realise the true value and not send it. However, it arrived safely and is my "best ever bargain". Very honourable of Sports Programmes too.


Great story & I look on enviously. Yours is the fifth that I know in existence.
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pompeypete
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:08 pm 
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Surprise, surprise !!!!!

No offers on the 1000 programme as predicted.

Either overpriced or collectors already have a copy.

Cool Cool Cool
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pafcprogs



Joined: 24 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:53 pm 
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So has anyone here SOLD a thousand pound programme

Closest i got was 950.

A Headington home friendly that I got in a job lot
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Most Plymouth post war but plenty of others Cup Finals Internationals and Club issues, handbooks and other sports.
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Leigh Treymaine



Joined: 02 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:13 pm 
Post subject: Third Lanark v Airdrie 8/8/1964 League Cup programme.
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This Carlisle v Middlesbrough thread brings to mind THIRD LANARK v AIRDRIE
8/8/1964 League Cup programme. Apparently Mr Hiddleston had decided that no programmes were to be issued for the 1964/5 season as one of his "economy cuts". Hence the only copies in existence are a very very few printers copies which were stamped as such at the top although the stamp was very smudged.
His decision was then reversed and in 1964/5 Thirds issued for the majority of home games, thus leaving many current Thirds and first and last collectors to wonder why the Airdrie League cup issue is never seen. Obviously season 1965/6 and 1966/7 produced no Thirds home programmes.
From information gleaned over the years the Thirds v Airdrie 8/8/1964 League Cup issue is far far scarcer than the 1957/8 Manchester United v Wolves postponed issue as many more of these{Utd v Wolves} have come to light.
However because the postponed Man Utd issue is more topical prices realised for any available Man Utd v Wolves programmes fetch premium prices.
Obviously every club has its rarities for whatever reason but THIRD LANARK v AIRDRIE 8/8/1964 is a very real rarity in the last season of production.
In fact because of varying factors ,apart from 5 or 6 ,many 1964/5 last season of production Thirds homes are rarely seen due to low print runs .

Airdrie is another club noteably for 1960s home scarcities, notably 1964/5 v Kilmarnock {Championship season}+others.
All interesting stuff and it would be interesting to know of other "lesser light" rarities from other clubs.
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