New York All Stars v Glasgow Celtic 20.5.1951 in USA. |
View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
Baltimore
Joined: 08 Feb 2013 Posts: 371 Location: France
|
Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:07 pm
Post subject: New York All Stars v Glasgow Celtic 20.5.1951 in USA. |
|
|
I have recently purchased a single sheet issue of the American League Soccer News published on 20 May 1951.
I believe it was published weekly and issued free on match days. When it coincided with a match, the teams were published, and some may consider it a program-Discuss? I guess some purists may ask was an official "program" issued?
Does anyone know if this was the case? - or is the below the Program?
What is the Forums view?
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Gorgie Guest
Joined: 02 Apr 2015 Posts: 23
|
Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:20 pm
Post subject: Hearts USA Tours - Soccer News Programmes |
|
|
As far as Hearts USA Tours go, a number of these types of issues are viewed as 'match programmes' when no official programmes were printed. And a couple of issues have been known to fetch over £1000 at auction. So I certainly accept them as official programmes and they are recognised in John Ure's excellent Hearts Programme guide.
I suspect your Celtic version is also worth a pretty penny because given their flimsy nature, very few have survived.
Nice item. _________________ Collector of Heart of Midlothian programmes and memorabilia. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Baltimore
Joined: 08 Feb 2013 Posts: 371 Location: France
|
Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:47 pm
Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks Gorgie Guest for your prompt response.
I suppose we need some Celtic officianado’s to put us straight.
You are correct in saying that the paper used is very thin, so to have survived for 67 years in pretty good nick is impressive.
All my other such ASL “programs”, are printed in black ink, so maybe the green was a tribute to Celtic?
Always pleasing to know it maybe sought after. But if an official program was issued then maybe it becomes a kind of Pirate issue? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Texas Rangers
Joined: 03 Oct 2015 Posts: 268
|
Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:45 pm
Post subject: |
|
|
These pop up occasionally over here. Depending on the teams involved, I’ve seen them go for anywhere between $50-$150.
Leslie has a bunch of these on his excellent Flickr sites.
I believe in some cases these were the only item available and I’d classify them as the programme in that case. In other cases of course, official programmes were issued. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Baltimore
Joined: 08 Feb 2013 Posts: 371 Location: France
|
Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:03 pm
Post subject: |
|
|
Cheers Texas,
I guess it’s all down to whether anyone knows if an official program was issued for the occasion. Despite it being 1951, I reckon there probably was.
This is where the Forum usually comes up trumps.
Thanks,
Ian |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Texas Rangers
Joined: 03 Oct 2015 Posts: 268
|
Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:13 pm
Post subject: |
|
|
Baltimore wrote: |
Cheers Texas,
I guess it’s all down to whether anyone knows if an official program was issued for the occasion. Despite it being 1951, I reckon there probably was.
This is where the Forum usually comes up trumps.
Thanks,
Ian |
From that same tour, I sold the programme from the Celtic v Chicago Eagles game played in Detroit to one of the guys on this site but I haven’t seen the American League Soccer News corresponding to that.
There was also a programme issued for the Celtic v Fulham game in Toronto
celtic fc 1951
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/346777240051422075/ |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Gorgie Guest
Joined: 02 Apr 2015 Posts: 23
|
Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:44 pm
Post subject: |
|
|
Texas Rangers wrote: |
These pop up occasionally over here. Depending on the teams involved, I’ve seen them go for anywhere between $50-$150.
Leslie has a bunch of these on his excellent Flickr sites.
I believe in some cases these were the only item available and I’d classify them as the programme in that case. In other cases of course, official programmes were issued. |
Leslie knows full well the value of these items involving Hearts and of course Manchester United! He would be gutted to know that the Hearts v City 6-5 win for Hearts in the Empire State Cup Final eclipses the United items though!
Lights blue touchpaper........ _________________ Collector of Heart of Midlothian programmes and memorabilia. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Baltimore
Joined: 08 Feb 2013 Posts: 371 Location: France
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Gorgie Guest
Joined: 02 Apr 2015 Posts: 23
|
Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:38 pm
Post subject: |
|
|
Texas Rangers wrote: |
These pop up occasionally over here. Depending on the teams involved, I’ve seen them go for anywhere between $50-$150.
Leslie has a bunch of these on his excellent Flickr sites.
I believe in some cases these were the only item available and I’d classify them as the programme in that case. In other cases of course, official programmes were issued. |
If you can obtain these publications over the pond for those fantastic prices, then good luck to you. But please do us all a favour and list them on here. Thanks. _________________ Collector of Heart of Midlothian programmes and memorabilia. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Texas Rangers
Joined: 03 Oct 2015 Posts: 268
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Baltimore
Joined: 08 Feb 2013 Posts: 371 Location: France
|
Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:27 pm
Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks Texas, that’s a useful resource. Maybe we have found a previously unknown? Or maybe that particular source of info is inaccurate?
It’s all intriguing... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Texas Rangers
Joined: 03 Oct 2015 Posts: 268
|
Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:33 pm
Post subject: |
|
|
Baltimore wrote: |
Thanks Texas, that’s a useful resource. Maybe we have found a previously unknown? Or maybe that particular source of info is inaccurate?
It’s all intriguing... |
It could be Baltimore. I referenced this source years ago but I had to take it at face value as I couldn’t confirm or refute that information anywhere else. I don’t know how well it’s kept up either.
Getting back to the eBay listing, most of the stuff he has sold is in the price range I indicated but keeping in line with Gorgie Guests comments, he’s also sold a version from the 1949 USA - Scotland friendly for over five hundred pounds....
Cheers
TR |
|
Back to top |
|
|
manchesterunitedman1
Joined: 17 Jan 2010 Posts: 3332 Location: United Kingdom
|
Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:27 pm
Post subject: |
|
|
Gorgie Guest wrote: |
Texas Rangers wrote: |
These pop up occasionally over here. Depending on the teams involved, I’ve seen them go for anywhere between $50-$150.
Leslie has a bunch of these on his excellent Flickr sites.
I believe in some cases these were the only item available and I’d classify them as the programme in that case. In other cases of course, official programmes were issued. |
Leslie knows full well the value of these items involving Hearts and of course Manchester United! He would be gutted to know that the Hearts v City 6-5 win for Hearts in the Empire State Cup Final eclipses the United items though!
Lights blue touchpaper........ |
ok my name has been mentioned so, I'm in!
The ASL sheets where the teams line up are the only official items that constitute what we regard as a programme.
I have NEVER seen an ASL sheet with team line up as well as an official programme and that covers the MU tours of 1950-1952-1960 it is an either or situation and for some games nothing was ever produced.
As regards pricing that has been recorded so far, of course I would not know what a Hearts v Manchester City sold for, but then whatever it was, is because a Hearts collector or collectors pushed each other and really wanted it and no other reason.
also the ASL sheets were printed each week and only have a decent value if they have a line up for a game where touring sides were concerned, more than not the interest is minimal as it is maybe just talking about forthcoming tours, or results during a tour and what games are coming up in the next few days, but of course the majority of the ASL broadsheets concerned teams in the USA and the interest back then was pretty lacklustre as "Soccer" was in it's infancy so everyone reading these pages gets as much info as is available as coverage in the press over there where Soccer is concerned then as against now was minimal, sometimes some of the touring clubs had good write ups as well.
Yes the paper was very flimsy but they were given away for free.
I have a fair number concerning the tours in 1950-52-1960 when United played there and some in between when United got a mention.
The people who produced the ASL were aware of every match involving every club who was in the USA or CANADA and they never as I said before produced one of these broadsheets with teams when they new that the hosts would be producing a program-even if it was spelt incorrectly.
So Gorgie there you have it, if you need anything further then just PM me
Oh nearly forgot, the all Green edition was produced to appeal to New York City's enormous Irish population and if in NYC when Belfast Celtic as well as Glasgow Celtic turned up because one was Irish and the other Scottish, they also knew that Belfast & Glasgow Celtic played in Green and that a good proportion had Irish roots-typical US marketing at it's best.
As a side issue I came across years ago 2 identical Pirate programmes for a Wolves v MU FA Cup Semi-Final in 1949-covering 2 games a drawn match and then a replay-both identical except one was printed in Gold and Black and only sold at the Wolves "end" and the other sold at the United "end" in Red and Black.
_________________ Leslie Millman
Twitter: @manyuman1
To see 19,900++ original items relating to Newton Heath & Manchester Utd 1878-2023 then visit www.flickr.com/photos/manchesterunitedman1/sets to see entire uploads.
1000's more images to be uploaded, to view the latest uploads go to www.flickr.com/photos/manchesterunitedman1/
Click any images 21 MILLION views to date to the Flickr site since 2007 growing every day. New Uploads weekly. Thank You to one & all for visiting!
Last edited by manchesterunitedman1 on Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Baltimore
Joined: 08 Feb 2013 Posts: 371 Location: France
|
Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:16 am
Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks Leslie for your comprehensive and instructive advice.
It would be interesting to hear the views of any Celtic collectors, and has this match been on their radar?
C’mon Forum I know you won’t let me down.
Ian |
|
Back to top |
|
|
manchesterunitedman1
Joined: 17 Jan 2010 Posts: 3332 Location: United Kingdom
|
Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:38 am
Post subject: |
|
|
Baltimore wrote: |
Thanks Leslie for your comprehensive and instructive advice.
It would be interesting to hear the views of any Celtic collectors, and has this match been on their radar?
C’mon Forum I know you won’t let me down.
Ian |
Hi Ian
Your Welcome.
I have seen this programme before more than a few times over the years and to my knowledge only recently a similar looking issue from the late 1940's concerning the Belfast Celtic tour to the USA sold for around a £100 or so but not much more on ebay which I thought was quite low tbh.
_________________ Leslie Millman
Twitter: @manyuman1
To see 19,900++ original items relating to Newton Heath & Manchester Utd 1878-2023 then visit www.flickr.com/photos/manchesterunitedman1/sets to see entire uploads.
1000's more images to be uploaded, to view the latest uploads go to www.flickr.com/photos/manchesterunitedman1/
Click any images 21 MILLION views to date to the Flickr site since 2007 growing every day. New Uploads weekly. Thank You to one & all for visiting! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Rocky
Joined: 15 Jun 2009 Posts: 1531
|
Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:42 am
Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Baltimore
Joined: 08 Feb 2013 Posts: 371 Location: France
|
Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:54 am
Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks Rocky,
I knew I could rely on you for factual information!
Cheers,
Ian |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Tynie Topics
Joined: 26 Nov 2009 Posts: 3509
|
Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:25 pm
Post subject: |
|
|
One of these covered the Belfast Celtic v Scotland game in 1949 at Randall's Island and is considered the programme from the match, and is exceptionally rare. _________________ https://www.flickr.com/photos/footballprogrammes/albums |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Texas Rangers
Joined: 03 Oct 2015 Posts: 268
|
Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:48 pm
Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks for the posts everyone. This is an area of interest that I’m always interested in learning more about.
This forum always delivers. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
garyspain
Joined: 24 Mar 2010 Posts: 882
|
Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:26 pm
Post subject: |
|
|
I think Leslie is spot on here. These are considered official programmes when they have team lineups. This applies to some Belfast Celtic games during the 1949 tour including the Scotland game as mentioned. Normally for games in New York for what I can recall as well.
The Belfast Celtic v Scotland was black and white I am pretty certain. The others were green I think. Sorry not to hand so definitely trusting my memory.
I suspect the Celtic collectors have agreed it is not the programme. My view is that they are wrong. However it will drive the price down. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
|
|
|
|
grantham, 10 minutes ago
derby1884, 2 hours, 26 minutes ago
derby1884, 2 hours, 29 minutes ago
Pete’s Picture Palace, 5 hours, 13 minutes ago
JJPROGRAMMES, 7 hours, 6 minutes ago
Leigh Treymaine, 10 hours, 38 minutes ago
nutfield priory, 12 hours, 26 minutes ago
Thedoog10, 1 day, 7 hours ago
smk06, 1 day, 8 hours ago
Thedoog10, 1 day, 8 hours ago
Thedoog10, 1 day, 8 hours ago
smk06, 1 day, 9 hours ago
smk06, 1 day, 9 hours ago
Thedoog10, 1 day, 10 hours ago
Thedoog10, 1 day, 10 hours ago
Pete’s Picture Palace, 1 day, 10 hours ago
Dorking, 1 day, 10 hours ago
smk06, 1 day, 13 hours ago
farmersboy, 2 days, 1 hour ago
Thedoog10, 2 days, 22 hours ago
martino, 3 days ago
colchestersid, 3 days, 2 hours ago
Cpfc jim, 3 days, 5 hours ago
Raxfactor, 3 days, 8 hours ago
Driver8, 3 days, 11 hours ago
Tintowner, 3 days, 13 hours ago
sharrowblade, 3 days, 23 hours ago
RIKERBCFC, 4 days, 7 hours ago
Dorking, 4 days, 7 hours ago
grantham, 5 days, 2 hours ago
Enniskillendoc, 5 days, 3 hours ago
James, 5 days, 4 hours ago
Raxfactor, 5 days, 4 hours ago
Raxfactor, 5 days, 5 hours ago
ndg1860, 5 days, 5 hours ago
colchestersid, 5 days, 5 hours ago
Raxfactor, 5 days, 6 hours ago
Pete’s Picture Palace, 5 days, 20 hours ago
Martin1963, 6 days, 1 hour ago
ndg1860, 6 days, 2 hours ago
PhilWBA, 6 days, 3 hours ago
Flaming Pie, 6 days, 5 hours ago
slightfold, 6 days, 5 hours ago
CAFC 1947, 6 days, 11 hours ago
Flaming Pie, 6 days, 11 hours ago
CAFC 1947, 6 days, 11 hours ago
DerbyCounter, 6 days, 12 hours ago
Dorking, 1 week, 1 day ago
Dorking, 1 week, 1 day ago
colchestersid, 1 week, 1 day ago |
|
11,649
Members
10,148
Members Wants
39
Members Mini-Stores
4,227
Members Items for Sale
|
|
|