New York All Stars v Glasgow Celtic 20.5.1951 in USA.

[Baltimore]

I have recently purchased a single sheet issue of the American League Soccer News published on 20 May 1951.

I believe it was published weekly and issued free on match days. When it coincided with a match, the teams were published, and some may consider it a program-Discuss? I guess some purists may ask was an official "program" issued?

Does anyone know if this was the case? - or is the below the Program?

What is the Forums view?

[Gorgie Guest]

As far as Hearts USA Tours go, a number of these types of issues are viewed as 'match programmes' when no official programmes were printed. And a couple of issues have been known to fetch over £1000 at auction. So I certainly accept them as official programmes and they are recognised in John Ure's excellent Hearts Programme guide.

I suspect your Celtic version is also worth a pretty penny because given their flimsy nature, very few have survived.

Nice item.
_________________
Collector of Heart of Midlothian programmes and memorabilia.

[Baltimore]

Thanks Gorgie Guest for your prompt response.

I suppose we need some Celtic officianado’s to put us straight.

You are correct in saying that the paper used is very thin, so to have survived for 67 years in pretty good nick is impressive.

All my other such ASL “programs”, are printed in black ink, so maybe the green was a tribute to Celtic?

Always pleasing to know it maybe sought after. But if an official program was issued then maybe it becomes a kind of Pirate issue?

[Texas Rangers]

These pop up occasionally over here. Depending on the teams involved, I’ve seen them go for anywhere between $50-$150.

Leslie has a bunch of these on his excellent Flickr sites.

I believe in some cases these were the only item available and I’d classify them as the programme in that case. In other cases of course, official programmes were issued.

[Baltimore]

Cheers Texas,

I guess it’s all down to whether anyone knows if an official program was issued for the occasion. Despite it being 1951, I reckon there probably was.

This is where the Forum usually comes up trumps.

Thanks,


Ian

[Texas Rangers]

Baltimore wrote:

Cheers Texas, I guess it’s all down to whether anyone knows if an official program was issued for the occasion. Despite it being 1951, I reckon there probably was. This is where the Forum usually comes up trumps. Thanks, Ian

From that same tour, I sold the programme from the Celtic v Chicago Eagles game played in Detroit to one of the guys on this site but I haven’t seen the American League Soccer News corresponding to that.

There was also a programme issued for the Celtic v Fulham game in Toronto
celtic fc 1951
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/346777240051422075/

[Gorgie Guest]

Texas Rangers wrote:

These pop up occasionally over here. Depending on the teams involved, I’ve seen them go for anywhere between $50-$150. Leslie has a bunch of these on his excellent Flickr sites. I believe in some cases these were the only item available and I’d classify them as the programme in that case. In other cases of course, official programmes were issued.

Leslie knows full well the value of these items involving Hearts and of course Manchester United! He would be gutted to know that the Hearts v City 6-5 win for Hearts in the Empire State Cup Final eclipses the United items though!

Lights blue touchpaper........
_________________
Collector of Heart of Midlothian programmes and memorabilia.

[Baltimore]

I was aware of the Canadian Tour Issues, as by coincidence ( honest?), I have the following tour programs and tickets that may be of interest to supporters of Spurs, Rangers, Sheffield United, Fiorentina,& Aberdeen. all on auction on a well known an internet auction site.

As they are quite rare I hope I can be forgiven the brazen advert?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/372606750398
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/372606759818
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/372606744706
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/372606781316
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/372606790087
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/372606800439
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/372606794577

I hope they are of interest!

[Gorgie Guest]

Texas Rangers wrote:

These pop up occasionally over here. Depending on the teams involved, I’ve seen them go for anywhere between $50-$150. Leslie has a bunch of these on his excellent Flickr sites. I believe in some cases these were the only item available and I’d classify them as the programme in that case. In other cases of course, official programmes were issued.

If you can obtain these publications over the pond for those fantastic prices, then good luck to you. But please do us all a favour and list them on here. Thanks.
_________________
Collector of Heart of Midlothian programmes and memorabilia.

[Texas Rangers]

Gorgie Guest wrote:

Texas Rangers wrote: These pop up occasionally over here. Depending on the teams involved, I’ve seen them go for anywhere between $50-$150. Leslie has a bunch of these on his excellent Flickr sites. I believe in some cases these were the only item available and I’d classify them as the programme in that case. In other cases of course, official programmes were issued. If you can obtain these publications over the pond for those fantastic prices, then good luck to you. But please do us all a favour and list them on here. Thanks.

Just the ones I’ve seen come up. I don’t own any of them. I’ll add that I haven’t seen any Man United, or Hearts for that matter for sale. They don’t come up very often in general.

Here’s a recent sale of Aberdeen v Everton. Sold for seventy five pounds.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1956-EVERTON-ABERDEEN-IN-NYC-ASL-NEWS-SOCCER-NEWS-PROGRAMMES-/264165141994?hash=item3d81782dea%3Ag%3AGHsAAOSwOWdcPKSq&nma=true&si=rUMA%252FcpquYG1TFgT5%252F2XsjK92dw%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Getting back to the original question about the Celtic v New York All Stars publication, I found this indicating no programme was issued for the subject game.

http://celticprogrammes.co.uk/celtic_usa_tours/intheusa.html

BTW, this seller lists on eBay UK

[Baltimore]

Thanks Texas, that’s a useful resource. Maybe we have found a previously unknown? Or maybe that particular source of info is inaccurate?

It’s all intriguing...

[Texas Rangers]

Baltimore wrote:

Thanks Texas, that’s a useful resource. Maybe we have found a previously unknown? Or maybe that particular source of info is inaccurate? It’s all intriguing...

It could be Baltimore. I referenced this source years ago but I had to take it at face value as I couldn’t confirm or refute that information anywhere else. I don’t know how well it’s kept up either.

Getting back to the eBay listing, most of the stuff he has sold is in the price range I indicated but keeping in line with Gorgie Guests comments, he’s also sold a version from the 1949 USA - Scotland friendly for over five hundred pounds....

Cheers
TR

[manchesterunitedman1]

Gorgie Guest wrote:

Texas Rangers wrote: These pop up occasionally over here. Depending on the teams involved, I’ve seen them go for anywhere between $50-$150. Leslie has a bunch of these on his excellent Flickr sites. I believe in some cases these were the only item available and I’d classify them as the programme in that case. In other cases of course, official programmes were issued. Leslie knows full well the value of these items involving Hearts and of course Manchester United! He would be gutted to know that the Hearts v City 6-5 win for Hearts in the Empire State Cup Final eclipses the United items though! Lights blue touchpaper........

ok my name has been mentioned so, I'm in!

The ASL sheets where the teams line up are the only official items that constitute what we regard as a programme.

I have NEVER seen an ASL sheet with team line up as well as an official programme and that covers the MU tours of 1950-1952-1960 it is an either or situation and for some games nothing was ever produced.

As regards pricing that has been recorded so far, of course I would not know what a Hearts v Manchester City sold for, but then whatever it was, is because a Hearts collector or collectors pushed each other and really wanted it and no other reason.

also the ASL sheets were printed each week and only have a decent value if they have a line up for a game where touring sides were concerned, more than not the interest is minimal as it is maybe just talking about forthcoming tours, or results during a tour and what games are coming up in the next few days, but of course the majority of the ASL broadsheets concerned teams in the USA and the interest back then was pretty lacklustre as "Soccer" was in it's infancy so everyone reading these pages gets as much info as is available as coverage in the press over there where Soccer is concerned then as against now was minimal, sometimes some of the touring clubs had good write ups as well.

Yes the paper was very flimsy but they were given away for free.

I have a fair number concerning the tours in 1950-52-1960 when United played there and some in between when United got a mention.

The people who produced the ASL were aware of every match involving every club who was in the USA or CANADA and they never as I said before produced one of these broadsheets with teams when they new that the hosts would be producing a program-even if it was spelt incorrectly.

So Gorgie there you have it, if you need anything further then just PM me



Oh nearly forgot, the all Green edition was produced to appeal to New York City's enormous Irish population and if in NYC when Belfast Celtic as well as Glasgow Celtic turned up because one was Irish and the other Scottish, they also knew that Belfast & Glasgow Celtic played in Green and that a good proportion had Irish roots-typical US marketing at it's best.

As a side issue I came across years ago 2 identical Pirate programmes for a Wolves v MU FA Cup Semi-Final in 1949-covering 2 games a drawn match and then a replay-both identical except one was printed in Gold and Black and only sold at the Wolves "end" and the other sold at the United "end" in Red and Black.


_________________
Leslie Millman
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[Baltimore]

Thanks Leslie for your comprehensive and instructive advice.

It would be interesting to hear the views of any Celtic collectors, and has this match been on their radar?

C’mon Forum I know you won’t let me down.


Ian

[manchesterunitedman1]

Baltimore wrote:

Thanks Leslie for your comprehensive and instructive advice. It would be interesting to hear the views of any Celtic collectors, and has this match been on their radar? C’mon Forum I know you won’t let me down. Ian

Hi Ian

Your Welcome.

I have seen this programme before more than a few times over the years and to my knowledge only recently a similar looking issue from the late 1940's concerning the Belfast Celtic tour to the USA sold for around a £100 or so but not much more on ebay which I thought was quite low tbh.


_________________
Leslie Millman
Twitter: @manyuman1

To see 19,900++ original items relating to Newton Heath & Manchester Utd 1878-2023 then visit www.flickr.com/photos/manchesterunitedman1/sets to see entire uploads.

1000's more images to be uploaded, to view the latest uploads go to www.flickr.com/photos/manchesterunitedman1/

Click any images 21 MILLION views to date to the Flickr site since 2007 growing every day. New Uploads weekly. Thank You to one & all for visiting!

[Rocky]

The match is on the radar as it is listed in the link below. Unsure if the potential programme is on the radar though.

http://www.thecelticwiki.com/page/Friendlies+-+Away
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www.middlesbroughfccollection.co.uk

https://www.flickr.com/photos/187311548@N07/albums

https://www.flickr.com/photos/117760314@N07/albums

[Baltimore]

Thanks Rocky,


I knew I could rely on you for factual information!

Cheers,


Ian

[Tynie Topics]

One of these covered the Belfast Celtic v Scotland game in 1949 at Randall's Island and is considered the programme from the match, and is exceptionally rare.
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https://www.flickr.com/photos/footballprogrammes/albums

[Texas Rangers]

Thanks for the posts everyone. This is an area of interest that I’m always interested in learning more about.

This forum always delivers.

[garyspain]

I think Leslie is spot on here. These are considered official programmes when they have team lineups. This applies to some Belfast Celtic games during the 1949 tour including the Scotland game as mentioned. Normally for games in New York for what I can recall as well.

The Belfast Celtic v Scotland was black and white I am pretty certain. The others were green I think. Sorry not to hand so definitely trusting my memory.

I suspect the Celtic collectors have agreed it is not the programme. My view is that they are wrong. However it will drive the price down.