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Chelsea home postponed programmes
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Rocky



Joined: 15 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:07 am 
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kilfie58 wrote:
In nearly every such case, you make a valid point. However, according to all sources I've enquired into, this game was postponed at a late date due to weather conditions, not due to a rearranged Cup game being played instead.
It may well be that the Middlesbrough Cup game was rearranged upon the postponement of this league game.
Hence, it is classed, the league game, as a postponement, due to adverse weather conditions.

Itís a difficult one Kilfie.

Both Boro and Forest progressed to the 5th round on 25th January, two weeks before the scheduled Chelsea league fixture on 8th February. The 5th round was already scheduled for the 8th Feb (as cup weekends are every season) and as such I doubt a programme would have been produced so far in advance.
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overlap



Joined: 10 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:11 am 
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Is there some possible confusion over the date of this re Chelsea v Boro game and possible postponement?

According to stamford-bridge.com, on Saturday 8 Feb 1947, Chelsea were at home to Grimsby in the League.

They even have a photo of the match programme dated 8 Feb 47 .,,see here.

http://www.stamford-bridge.com.....on=1946/47
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kilfie58



Joined: 20 Nov 2018
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:15 am 
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overlap wrote:
Is there some possible confusion over the date of this re Chelsea v Boro game and possible postponement?

According to stamford-bridge.com, on Saturday 8 Feb 1947, Chelsea were at home to Grimsby in the League.

They even have a photo of the match programme dated 8 Feb 47 .,,see here.

http://www.stamford-bridge.com.....on=1946/47


Hello Overlap,

Yes, I think you are correct. There must be something amiss re the date of the Middlesbrough game. I will enquire further into this.
Adverse weather didn't stop the Grimsby game, so the date of 8.2.47 v Middlesbrough must be wrong.
Thank you.

Best wishes
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Rocky



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:25 am 
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No, the game v Boro was always planned for 8th Feb in the fixture lists but with Boro's FA Cup game scheduled for 8th Feb taking priority I suspect the Grimsby game was possibly brought forward to fill in a blank weekend for both teams?
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kilfie58



Joined: 20 Nov 2018
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:51 am 
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Rocky wrote:
No, the game v Boro was always planned for 8th Feb in the fixture lists but with Boro's FA Cup game scheduled for 8th Feb taking priority I suspect the Grimsby game was possibly brought forward to fill in a blank weekend for both teams?


Hello Ricky,

Thank you. Have you the original scheduled season fixture list for that season for Middlesbrough? In which case, yes, you are correct.
I may ask if someone has the scheduled fixture list for Grimsby or Chelsea for this season?

That way, your summary will be confirmed. And mystery solved. The Middlesbrough game was not a postponed game, in the correct sense of the word, but a game to be rearranged.

Best wishes
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overlap



Joined: 10 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:52 am 
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Rocky wrote:
No, the game v Boro was always planned for 8th Feb in the fixture lists but with Boro's FA Cup game scheduled for 8th Feb taking priority I suspect the Grimsby game was possibly brought forward to fill in a blank weekend for both teams?


Hi Rocky and Kilfie58, Grimsby filling in given Boro's progress in the FA Cup, sounds feasible.
There was obviously no bad weather element in play either on 8 Feb.
So, the question would be, would Chelsea produce a programme for the game v Boro more than two weeks in advance? before boro played in the FA Cup on 25 Jan?
I don't think so somehow.
For starters not only would there be a gamble, given that Boro could be in FA Cup action on 8 Feb, the programme content would be badly dated given it would be printed before the Chelsea away game v Charlton on 1 Feb was played.
I think this Chelsea v Boro programme might be looking like a phantom programme that has never existed?
regards, overlap.
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kilfie58



Joined: 20 Nov 2018
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:02 pm 
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overlap wrote:
Rocky wrote:
No, the game v Boro was always planned for 8th Feb in the fixture lists but with Boro's FA Cup game scheduled for 8th Feb taking priority I suspect the Grimsby game was possibly brought forward to fill in a blank weekend for both teams?


Hi Rocky and Kilfie58, Grimsby filling in given Boro's progress in the FA Cup, sounds feasible.
There was obviously no bad weather element in play either on 8 Feb.
So, the question would be, would Chelsea produce a programme for the game v Boro more than two weeks in advance? before boro played in the FA Cup on 25 Jan?
I don't think so somehow.
For starters not only would there be a gamble, given that Boro could be in FA Cup action on 8 Feb, the programme content would be badly dated given it would be printed before the Chelsea away game v Charlton on 1 Feb was played.
I think this Chelsea v Boro programme might be looking like a phantom programme that has never existed?
regards, overlap.


Hello overlap,

Yes, I agree.

Best wishes
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Rocky



Joined: 15 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:03 pm 
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Here we are Kilfie, Boro's fixture lists. Hope you can decipher the poor scans.

Before 8th Feb



and after


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overlap



Joined: 10 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:15 pm 
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Very clear scans Rocky.

Also, looking at the Chelsea v Portsmouth game listed for 12 Feb 1946, this appears not to be a "postponement" either, but another "displaced game" because of the FA Cup priorities.

According to this website Chelsea were playing an FA Cup Fifth Round Second Leg match pm that date (This was the only season of FA Cup home and away ties).
https://www.stamford-bridge.com/results.php?comp_id=99&sid=46&season=1945/46

When Chelsea got through in the previous round v West Ham no Portsmouth programmes would then have been printed given that the date of 12 Feb was taken up by an FA Cup fixture date, which would have been set aside by the FA for that purpose.
So probably fair to scratch this one off the list too?
regards, Overlap.
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Rocky



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:16 pm 
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seand wrote:
Why would that not count as a postponement? It was scheduled for 8-2-47 and postponed to another date due to Boro's cup commitments. What is it if not a postponement?

I agree that technically it is a postponement. However, I only record Boro postponements that are mainly weather related (approx. 99%) and arenít cancelled due to one of the teams being involved in a Cup-Tie, including European Cup Ties. It prevents confusion as per above and people listing and looking for programmes that in all probability won't have been produced.
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kilfie58



Joined: 20 Nov 2018
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:57 pm 
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overlap wrote:
Very clear scans Rocky.

Also, looking at the Chelsea v Portsmouth game listed for 12 Feb 1946, this appears not to be a "postponement" either, but another "displaced game" because of the FA Cup priorities.

According to this website Chelsea were playing an FA Cup Fifth Round Second Leg match pm that date (This was the only season of FA Cup home and away ties).
https://www.stamford-bridge.com/results.php?comp_id=99&sid=46&season=1945/46

When Chelsea got through in the previous round v West Ham no Portsmouth programmes would then have been printed given that the date of 12 Feb was taken up by an FA Cup fixture date, which would have been set aside by the FA for that purpose.
So probably fair to scratch this one off the list too?
regards, Overlap.


Hello overlap,

Season 46/47 Chelsea played the 5th Rnd replay away at Derby County on 29th Jan 47. Derby won 1-0

The Grimsby game may well have been a fill in, but regards Chelsea, the 12th of Feb, the proposed Portsmouth game, was free to play, for Chelsea's sake at least. Additionally, they played on the 15th Feb.

So are we then talking of another FA Cup replay, re 12th Feb, for Portsmouth?

In those days, as far as I know, printers started 3 or 4 days before publication. The 8th February FA Cup games were played on a Saturday. The working week would start on the Monday, 10th Feb. It is possible therefore that the Portsmouth programme had been started upon at least.
However, if Portsmouth drew their game 8.2.47, and a replay was played on the 12th, I'd imagine that was the reason for the "so called postponement" of that game as well.

Best wishes
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overlap



Joined: 10 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:30 pm 
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Ah bit of confusion, I was looking at 45/46 season as original postponed list has Portsmouth game as Feb 46, will look again at 46/47 season.
regards.
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manchesterunitedman1



Joined: 17 Jan 2010
Posts: 2802
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 2:02 pm 
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kilfie58 wrote:
manchesterunitedman1 wrote:
kilfie58 wrote:
For all who wonder... Here is the complete list of Chelsea home postponed games and programmes, 1946-74. There are 3, not known to exist (to my knowledge).

Middlesbrough 8.2.47 (no known programme)
Portsmouth. 12.2.46 (no known programme)
Liverpool 6.12.52
Luton T. 29.12.62
Stoke City. 1.1.63 (no known programme)
Leeds Utd. 2.2.63
Portsmouth. 16.2.63
Portsmouth. 20.2.63
Sunderland. 20.11.65
Blackburn. 18.12.65
Barcelona. 20.4.66
Wolves. 9.12.67
Liverpool. 13.1. 68
Stoke City. 28.12.68
Stoke City. 29.11.68
Liverpool. 14.2.70
Burnley. 6.2.74
Sheffield Utd. 23.11.74

Best wishes

Makes a change not to have anything v Manchester United[other than the recent one a few years back with JT on the cover]!
Laughing Wave


Yes! How very true!
The thought occurred to me a few months ago that a more expensive buy of a modern programme, the Chelsea v Barcelona 20.4.66, is only compared to the PP Man Utd programme straight after the Munich air crash.

Best wishes


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pompeypete
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Joined: 17 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 2:58 pm 
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kilfie58 wrote:
In addition,

The postponed programme v Portsmouth 12.2.47 is not known to exist. However, according to the sources I enquired into years ago, the printers needed a minimum of 3 days before publication.
As the previous game, 8.2.47, v Middlesbrough, was postponed, it is entirely possible for both that programme and the Portsmouth one to exist, due to time parameters.
Of course, it would be completely normal for all examples to be destroyed in the furnace before delivery to Stamford Bridge.

Hope this helps.

Best wishes


Getting a bit confused....You have chelsea v pompey on your list as 12.2.46 (45/46 season ?)
If you meant the 46/47 season, the match was always listed to be played on the 22nd Feb 1947.....this was postponed due to abnormal weather conditions over the whole country. Fixtures for the season were extended to May 10th to allow clubs to complete their matches.

It could be me having a senior moment Laughing Laughing Laughing
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kilfie58



Joined: 20 Nov 2018
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:14 pm 
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pompeypete wrote:
kilfie58 wrote:
In addition,

The postponed programme v Portsmouth 12.2.47 is not known to exist. However, according to the sources I enquired into years ago, the printers needed a minimum of 3 days before publication.
As the previous game, 8.2.47, v Middlesbrough, was postponed, it is entirely possible for both that programme and the Portsmouth one to exist, due to time parameters.
Of course, it would be completely normal for all examples to be destroyed in the furnace before delivery to Stamford Bridge.

Hope this helps.

Best wishes


Getting a bit confused....You have chelsea v pompey on your list as 12.2.46 (45/46 season ?)
If you meant the 46/47 season, the match was always listed to be played on the 22nd Feb 1947.....this was postponed due to abnormal weather conditions over the whole country. Fixtures for the season were extended to May 10th to allow clubs to complete their matches.

It could be me having a senior moment Laughing Laughing Laughing


Yup.. Im having a poor senior day it seems! Lol

Yes 46/47..even I perpetuated the 12..2..47. SHOULD BE as you correctly say.. 22.2.47.

Thank you for your senior moment sir!

Best wishes
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Leigh Treymaine



Joined: 02 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 5:57 pm 
Post subject: 1946/7
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I thought fixtures in 1946/7 were extended into June to complete the backlog.
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kilfie58



Joined: 20 Nov 2018
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:03 pm 
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Leigh Treymaine wrote:
I thought fixtures in 1946/7 were extended into June to complete the backlog.


Hello Leigh,

Indeed. Chelsea's final home game was the 26th May 47, the rearranged game v Portsmouth. Rather strangely however, the last away game was played in April.

Best wishes
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Footyfan



Joined: 25 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:36 am 
Post subject: CHELSEA POSTPONED ISSUES
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Pretty sure there is no Chelsea v Leeds Utd 2/2/1963 programme.
Only ever seen the Printers uncut copy that sold on EBAY for £1200 back in 2010. It was discussed on the Forum at the time.

http://www.footballprogrammecentre.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4974

Mick Hewitt (Leeds Dealer) at [email protected] sells a photocopy of the Front Cover for anyone looking to plug a gap until the real thing ever appears again.
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Bluebob



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 6:52 pm 
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I too have a scanned copy of the front of the Chelsea v Leeds postponed programme dated 2/263 which I obtained from another source. I was also told that inside were pictures of Chelsea v Hibernian of Malta who Chelsea visited to escape the big freeze and the pictures do not appear in any other programme. I certainly believe a few of these programmes did escape.
If anyone has one and could send me a scan of all the pages I would be grateful.

Bluebob
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kilfie58



Joined: 20 Nov 2018
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 7:51 pm 
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Bluebob wrote:
I too have a scanned copy of the front of the Chelsea v Leeds postponed programme dated 2/263 which I obtained from another source. I was also told that inside were pictures of Chelsea v Hibernian of Malta who Chelsea visited to escape the big freeze and the pictures do not appear in any other programme. I certainly believe a few of these programmes did escape.
If anyone has one and could send me a scan of all the pages I would be grateful.

Bluebob


Hello Blue Bob,

Can you confirm that the front cover of the Leeds programme shows the same photo as v Huddersfield 2.3.63? (a group trying to clear the ice and snow)

Many thanks

Kilfie
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