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Superblue



Joined: 20 Aug 2015
Posts: 267
Location: Carlisle

PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 12:18 pm 
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It's a year ago today that I decided to put my badge collection on Flickr. Thank you to the people who view it and if you haven't then please do.

Kyle
https://www.flickr.com/photos/135035936@N02/albums
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Dorking



Joined: 05 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 7:33 pm 
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Lovely collection Kyle, thank you for sharing Easy
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Superblue



Joined: 20 Aug 2015
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Location: Carlisle

PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 7:35 pm 
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Thanks Dorking, much appreciated.
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littlewiggy



Joined: 07 Apr 2013
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Location: Newport

PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:54 pm 
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Superb stuff Kyle, you know I've always admired your excellent photos.
I wish my scanner could produce images of such clarity.

I notice you only collect one badge per issue mate, do complete sets not appeal to you?

I'm the type of badge anorak who simply must have every variation of a badge, even if they seemingly look identical to the naked eye.
As in identical colourways, but one having a gilt (gold) rear and the other having a chrome (silver).

Just out of idle curiosity, do you have to pay for Flickr space?

I'm not sure it's for me, but I have long flirted with the idea of having a County badge website like the brilliant ones out there for Blackpool, Villa etc.

Not only to display my collection, but also as a reference tool as to exactly what Newport badges were produced and when.

I also find it interesting how the badge market has completely changed with the advent of the internet.
For decades and decades right up till the late 1990s, badges were produced solely for fans to proudly wear upon their lapel.
Ever since then however, it now seems that they're produced predominantly with collectors in mind, and not for wearing, hence the sheer explosion of them.


** We really should have a "General Badge Chit Chat" thread on here where any badge chatter can occur and be discussed, so I don't keep derailing threads (including my own)!!!

Laughing
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Tynie Topics



Joined: 26 Nov 2009
Posts: 3508

PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 2:23 pm 
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Out of interest, what is the attraction in collecting modern day badges? It’s always been a bit of a dark art for me, particularly when a badge is produced in umpteen different colours in the same design for the specific purpose of extracting as much wonga from the anoraks pocket. I struggle with the concept of buying “collectables” produced for people to collect with no other purpose.

At least with programmes (and tickets, and teamsheets) they are produced for a specific purpose which is not primarily for collecting, the purchaser can choose to keep them or throw them away after “use”.

As you say, badges were a way of showing support for your club, they had a specific purpose probably upto the early 1980’s, that has largely died away, I rarely see anyone actually wearing a badge (apart from the non-league game I suppose where they do still serve some sort of purpose, and perhaps Internationals) so I’m wondering what the attraction is to collecting modern badges, particularly modern day match batches in 8 colours for run-of-the-mill League 2 games?
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littlewiggy



Joined: 07 Apr 2013
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Location: Newport

PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 3:02 pm 
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It's a fair question Tynie, and I guess the short answer would be the same as to why does anybody collect anything?
Because they like them and very much enjoy looking at and acquiring them.

Match badges in particular are a great, largely inexpensive souvenir of a game you've personally attended, just as a programme might be.
Unlike programmes however, they take up very little space, are easy to carry around on the day without creasing or spoiling, and are very low maintenance thereafter.

They certainly appeal greatly to the younger masses of today if our sales are anything to go by, just as programmes did to us when we were youngsters.

As for multiple issues and various colourways, surely it's no different whatsoever to programme collecting in that regard?
If a different cover, a scarce error production, or maybe a nice VIP issue for a certain programme exists, do you not try and acquire them all as a programme enthusiast?

I have no idea of the figures concerning the different genres of footy collecting, but I'd wager that badge collecting in 2016 is up there with the highest in terms of the numbers of avid collectors.

Hence the reason why the number of badges being produced are increasing by the year.
If anything, the change in the predominant purpose of a pin badge has actually increased its popularity tenfold.

A very interesting question though mate.
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Fishy



Joined: 07 Jun 2011
Posts: 1217

PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 4:24 pm 
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Nice collection Kyle.

My favourite is probably the 3rd Carlisle badge - is there any age to that one?

Ian
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Tynie Topics



Joined: 26 Nov 2009
Posts: 3508

PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 4:38 pm 
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littlewiggy wrote:
It's a fair question Tynie, and I guess the short answer would be the same as to why does anybody collect anything?
Because they like them and very much enjoy looking at and acquiring them.

Match badges in particular are a great, largely inexpensive souvenir of a game you've personally attended, just as a programme might be.
Unlike programmes however, they take up very little space, are easy to carry around on the day without creasing or spoiling, and are very low maintenance thereafter.

They certainly appeal greatly to the younger masses of today if our sales are anything to go by, just as programmes did to us when we were youngsters.

As for multiple issues and various colourways, surely it's no different whatsoever to programme collecting in that regard?
If a different cover, a scarce error production, or maybe a nice VIP issue for a certain programme exists, do you not try and acquire them all as a programme enthusiast?

I have no idea of the figures concerning the different genres of footy collecting, but I'd wager that badge collecting in 2016 is up there with the highest in terms of the numbers of avid collectors.

Hence the reason why the number of badges being produced are increasing by the year.
If anything, the change in the predominant purpose of a pin badge has actually increased its popularity tenfold.

A very interesting question though mate.


Thanks for the response.

I suppose it’s down to whatever floats your boat like any form of collecting, and the advantage badges have is that they are a heck of a lot easier to store than programmes.

Re error programmes no, never really took much notice probably because I have never encountered any for what I collect, same with different covers. VIP issues fall mainly into the International sphere and I collect those as they are almost always the only programme produced.

Maybe I’ll never “get” why collecting something that the guy next door may have got made-up is attractive, but that’s my problem! I do have a fair few match badges related to Scottish international games, but that’s mainly because I’m mates with someone who produces them and I feel obliged, they do look nice framed though! At the end of the day if its popular with the kids then that’s a positive.
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Pete’s Picture Palace
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Joined: 19 Feb 2013
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Location: Wallington Surrey

PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 5:14 pm 
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Yes, whatever rocks your boat.

Things like this rock mine











Sadly (for me) they don't rock anybody else's!
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Dorking



Joined: 05 Feb 2010
Posts: 2414

PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 6:03 pm 
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Couple of excellent posts there by Littlewiggy
I guess deep down, serious badge collectors know its in their blood that they have to be collecting something. Wiggy also collects County tickets, myself its both badges and cards

Not going to go on much about cards as there is a totally different web forum for that, and everyone on there is pretty much a convert, but what I can say is that as with collecting anything, you can do it at a cheap level, or at a spend a fortune level, so the hobby is accessible to all.

I'd love to collect valuable pre war badges at £100+ a go, but matchbadges gives me just as much pleasure even if they are mass produced and not too hard to get in the main, as it is a living, breathing, current collectible, who knows what our next up game will be and what the badge will look like!!
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Superblue



Joined: 20 Aug 2015
Posts: 267
Location: Carlisle

PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 6:29 pm 
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Wow, i didn't realise this would be so popular Laughing . Time to try and answer some questions.

For littlewiggy: to be honest no, having different colour ways of the same badge doesn't appeal to me although I do have a few different colour ways of the same badge. But having a couple of match day badges for the same game (mostly Carlisle if that's possible) then that's appeals to me because it's a different badge although it's for the same game. I can understand why you would want to collect each colour way of the same badge because it's nice to have a full set. But sometimes I think people take the p*** and produce 8, 10 or 12 colour ways, sometimes colours that aren't associated with either club. Hope that makes sense Laughing .

For fishy: the gold supporters club badge?.

Kyle
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littlewiggy



Joined: 07 Apr 2013
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Location: Newport

PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 6:32 pm 
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Spot on mate.
Today's brand new item is tomorrow's sought-after collectible is my motto.

You could also argue I guess, what is the point in buying a programme in 2016?

It's purpose as a tool of any worth is surely long defunct nowadays, when everything it provides is only a click or two away on your phone.
Indeed were it not FL rules, I reckon a lot of clubs wouldn't even still be issuing them.
Especially lower league clubs that are forced to produce them at an annual loss.

I'd also argue that when I pay £3-50 for a match badge, it is still worth £3-50 when I get it home.
The majority of programmes meanwhile ... !

Badges too are rarely produced in vast numbers, most are from a run of just 100 - and often only 25 or 50 when different colourways are introduced - so that too adds to the appeal that modern badges hold for me.

As Dorking says, there's less prejudice in badge collecting too.
I've paid well into three figures for rare, pre-war County badges, yet obtaining a new match badge for a few pounds gives me just as much pleasure when I'm looking through my lot.
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Superblue



Joined: 20 Aug 2015
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Location: Carlisle

PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 6:40 pm 
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I also found that while hunting for badges for my Cumbrian collection, it used to frustrate me that I couldn't find what I wanted then the joy when I finally did. But now I have all of them (that I am aware of), I've learned that I enjoyed the chase more than the catch Laughing .
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littlewiggy



Joined: 07 Apr 2013
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Location: Newport

PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 6:52 pm 
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Yes the thrill of the chase is very enjoyable Kyle.

I enjoy the searching too.
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Tynie Topics



Joined: 26 Nov 2009
Posts: 3508

PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 7:52 pm 
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littlewiggy wrote:
You could also argue I guess, what is the point in buying a programme in 2016?

It's purpose as a tool of any worth is surely long defunct nowadays, when everything it provides is only a click or two away on your phone.


I'd disagree with that for the most part, programmes still can provide a great read with unique content, I've seen some tremendous historical articles illustrated with photographs from press archives you just never see.

There are very good programmes out there, whether they are practical to collect these days given their 100 page plus size in many cases is debatable, and - a few exceptions apart - you'll never get cover price for them so they are not an investment.
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pompeypete
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Joined: 17 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 8:12 pm 
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littlewiggy wrote:
Superb stuff Kyle, you know I've always admired your excellent photos.
I wish my scanner could produce images of such clarity.

I notice you only collect one badge per issue mate, do complete sets not appeal to you?

I'm the type of badge anorak who simply must have every variation of a badge, even if they seemingly look identical to the naked eye.
As in identical colourways, but one having a gilt (gold) rear and the other having a chrome (silver).

Just out of idle curiosity, do you have to pay for Flickr space?

I'm not sure it's for me, but I have long flirted with the idea of having a County badge website like the brilliant ones out there for Blackpool, Villa etc.

Not only to display my collection, but also as a reference tool as to exactly what Newport badges were produced and when.

I also find it interesting how the badge market has completely changed with the advent of the internet.
For decades and decades right up till the late 1990s, badges were produced solely for fans to proudly wear upon their lapel.
Ever since then however, it now seems that they're produced predominantly with collectors in mind, and not for wearing, hence the sheer explosion of them.


** We really should have a "General Badge Chit Chat" thread on here where any badge chatter can occur and be discussed, so I don't keep derailing threads (including my own)!!!

Laughing


Flickr is free......
With all my scans, only 2-3% has been used.

Although there is a premium version...........pete
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littlewiggy



Joined: 07 Apr 2013
Posts: 1801
Location: Newport

PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 8:52 pm 
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Cheers Pete.

What a tremendous facility that is then.

(yours is great btw!)

Re Tynie, yeah fair comment mate.
I wrote our historical content for ten years, but I got the impression it was only the over-40s that actually read it.
Kids just don't seem interested in anything but the here-and-now these days.

You're quite right though, as contributors our remit was always to try & provide something the reader couldn't find anywhere else.
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TartanTyneArmy



Joined: 24 Jul 2016
Posts: 121
Location: Wallsend, Newcastle upon Tyne

PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 8:56 pm 
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littlewiggy wrote:
Spot on mate.
Today's brand new item is tomorrow's sought-after collectible is my motto.

You could also argue I guess, what is the point in buying a programme in 2016?

It's purpose as a tool of any worth is surely long defunct nowadays, when everything it provides is only a click or two away on your phone.
Indeed were it not FL rules, I reckon a lot of clubs wouldn't even still be issuing them.
Especially lower league clubs that are forced to produce them at an annual loss.


I'm not sure this point is right.
Space in programmes is at a premium for sponsors. It's a bit like newspapers, the press make almost nothing from the sale but it's adverts that drive revenue.
Also FL Financial Fairplay rules say that a club may only spend 50% of it's turnover on wages of playing staff. Programmes therefore act as a way of boosting this number. If a programme cost £2 and the club breaks even, they can still add £1 to their staff budget. Whilst for lower league clubs this may only generate a few thousand every month but that might just be the funds that allow them to offer pro contracts to a couple of youngsters or perhaps finance their contribution of wages for a loan player.
These days shirts and most other club merchandise is manufactured abroad. Whereas programmes are likely to be printed locally and so (£ for £) spend on a programme will probably contribute more to local business than other football paraphernalia.
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Tynie Topics



Joined: 26 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 9:11 pm 
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littlewiggy wrote:
Cheers Pete.

What a tremendous facility that is then.

(yours is great btw!)


Can recommend Flickr as a great way to easily show off your collection, no website skills required.

Scanning can be the tedious part though!
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littlewiggy



Joined: 07 Apr 2013
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Location: Newport

PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 9:20 pm 
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I can't speak for the bigger clubs Tartan, as I have no idea, but in the lower divisions and the upper non league it's incredibly difficult to produce a programme at anything but a small loss.

Most are tendered out to professional design teams these days as a necessity, and that coupled with high print costs makes turning a profit increasingly unlikely unless you are a club that attracts a crowd in the tens of thousands.

Once you get past the initial design & print set-up costs, ordering say additional batches of a thousand here and another few thousand there are reasonably low.
That's where your profit is.
That however is of very little benefit to a club with an average attendance in the lower four figures.
Even more so when you factor in that roughly only 1 in 3 match attendees actually buy a programme.

The thought of it actually generating a few thou a month in profit is highly unlikely nowadays.
It's only maximising the advertising space that keeps the losses to a bare minimum.
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