Shirt numbering in the 1920's

[martino]

The attached programme has the players numbered 1 to 22 - home players 1 to 11 and away players 12 to 22.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CHEL.....528597734?

Out of interest, did the away players really wear those numbered shirts in those days or was it just the way Chelsea chose to number the players in their programme?

[hydemaine]

Not sure about the 1920's but the 1933 FA Cup Final Everton v Manchester City the shirts of the teams were numbered 1 to 22

[wandererpaul]

martino wrote:

The attached programme has the players numbered 1 to 22 - home players 1 to 11 and away players 12 to 22. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CHEL.....528597734? Out of interest, did the away players really wear those numbered shirts in those days or was it just the way Chelsea chose to number the players in their programme?

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/gunners-wear-numbered-shirts

A partial history of shirt numbering. Herbert Chapman seems to be the instigator of shirts being numbered so he could see who was who more easily.
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[wandererpaul]

Actually, there's more here re numbering and saying Herbert Chapman wasn't the instigator but was still part of it.

http://www.blog.woolwicharsenal.co.uk/archives/10179
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Not Forgotten; Allwright, Greechan, Hagan, Kennedy, Littler, Purver, Robotham, Saunders, Shields

[martino]

Thanks for the above. Very interesting links.

It looks as though Chelsea were one of the instigators of the idea and that shirt numbers from 12 onwards were around long before the Premier League.

[Pete’s Picture Palace]

I have a Palace programme (copy only!) dated 1907 which lists players from numbers 1 to 22.

But I know that no Palace players wore numbers pre WW2, I have a photo from 1938/9 which is clear there are no numbers on their backs and again that programme lists them from 1-22.

I have a CPFC programme dated 6th Sept 1941 and that lists both teams from 1-11. My first photo post WW2 has numbers on backs.

[bisphamseasider]

Interesting thread martino.

I have never really studied pre war Blackpool shirt numbers but I'll add it to my list of things to research.

As a matter of interest I have just added to the 'programme on this day thread' with one which numbers the two teams 1-22.

[derby1884]

A small section of Steve Bloomer's biography covers the introduction of shirt numbers. I didn't realise it wasn't till as late as 1939 that it became compulsory.

Bloomer wrote the following in September 1928 just as the idea was being mooted:

"The contention is that crowds cannot identify players but that is an insidious doctrine that will do untold harm to the game if it is allowed to get a hold. Every good player has a name and a personality and to say 'No.8 is a clever player', well, bang goes all that personality, the romance, everything a player has strived for and gained and all because some people that go to football matches when they feel like it do not know the players intimately enough to identify them on the field. I preferred to be known as Steve Bloomer, not No.8"
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[Rocky]

No sign of numbered shirts in this nostalgic clip of the 1939 FA Cup 3rd round. One of the games featured is Boro v Bolton and looking in my programme it lists the teams 1-22

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6p7UPoHOSs

For the 39/40 season, the Boro v Sunderland team listings in the Football League Jubilee Fund game programme show both teams listed as 1-11.

Finally, in the Soccer at War book there is a picture of the Chelsea team taking to the pitch in a public trial game in August 1939. The caption states they were wearing numbers for the first time.

As Steve mentions, 1939 looks to be the time when numbering became compulsory.

[Turvey Tyke]

This photo of Barnsley from 1890 has been in my possession for a number of years. Only on scanning it and looking more closely did I realise that the shirts are numbered on the front.
Not seen evidence of numbered shirts pre-dating this

[martino]

derby1884 wrote:

A small section of Steve Bloomer's biography covers the introduction of shirt numbers. I didn't realise it wasn't till as late as 1939 that it became compulsory. Bloomer wrote the following in September 1928 just as the idea was being mooted: "The contention is that crowds cannot identify players but that is an insidious doctrine that will do untold harm to the game if it is allowed to get a hold. Every good player has a name and a personality and to say 'No.8 is a clever player', well, bang goes all that personality, the romance, everything a player has strived for and gained and all because some people that go to football matches when they feel like it do not know the players intimately enough to identify them on the field. I preferred to be known as Steve Bloomer, not No.8"

I do not think Steve Bloomer thought this through. Some home spectators may know their players but would they know who was who on the away team without numbering?

[derby1884]

martino wrote:

derby1884 wrote: A small section of Steve Bloomer's biography covers the introduction of shirt numbers. I didn't realise it wasn't till as late as 1939 that it became compulsory. Bloomer wrote the following in September 1928 just as the idea was being mooted: "The contention is that crowds cannot identify players but that is an insidious doctrine that will do untold harm to the game if it is allowed to get a hold. Every good player has a name and a personality and to say 'No.8 is a clever player', well, bang goes all that personality, the romance, everything a player has strived for and gained and all because some people that go to football matches when they feel like it do not know the players intimately enough to identify them on the field. I preferred to be known as Steve Bloomer, not No.8" I do not think Steve Bloomer thought this through. Some home spectators may know their players but would they know who was who on the away team without numbering?

Going by his biography, he seems a man who didn't take too kindly to change.
By 1928, though, money was tight for him and he also seems to have been nudged to write in as relatively controversial a manner as he could by the various publications he contributed to.
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