Paypal dispute

[Jake]

For the first time, I've had a Paypal dispute opened against me. I sold a programme on Ebay to a guy in Italy a wee while ago and he left positive feedback on July 18th, which I took to mean he'd received the programme and was happy with his purchase. Happy days.

Today, I get an e-mail from Paypal advising that he's opened a dispute due to having not received the programme.

So, a few questions about this. The first one is that is this a genuine mistake or is this guy, quite simply, at it?

Second one is, what's the best way to resolve it? I've replied in the resolution centre mentioning that he'd left feedback but this is a Paypal issue as opposed to an Ebay one so I dunno if Paypal can check it out through Ebay. It didn't help that his comments are in Italian...

Anyone had this happen to them? How did you sort it? Cheers in advance for any help...

[kpswannie]

I had this problem with a guy in France a while back mate

o protect my ebay feedback I gave the guy a full refund

I no longer post items outside the United Kingdom and Ireland now

I don't know how much is involved but it might be a better idea to give them a refund and then do what I done in future and don't post abroad

[oldbolt]

I once received positive feedback from a guy in the Philippines one day after he won the auction.He obviously hadn't received the item and didn't understand how feedback should work .Never heard from him again so I assume it arrived safely.
I think in your example if you don't have a signature proving he received the item paypal will refund the buyer and you will have to claim compensation from Royal Mail or however.There's no way of knowing if he's being dishonest but the onus is on the seller to prove the item arrived with ebay/paypal.
Best way to resolve? Without a signature i'd just accept i was going to lose any case.
I had a domestic parcel go missing recently.Ebay refunded the buyer , i put in a claim with Royal Mail and they refunded in full within 10 days.

[PhilWBA]

I don't think you have much chance going from past experience, you have no tracking number, he says he didn't get it despite the feedback and Paypal usually go with the buyer. I've had a case where the customer told me through a ebay message they had the item but still claimed through Paypal and won as Paypal didn't take any notice of my defence. unfortunately ebay still have dodgy buyers which they fail to acknowledge and people wrongly assume its full of dodgy sellers.

I've had a claim opened against me today by a customer in the US for non receipt of a card which I send by International Signed For on the 12th July and according to both Royal Mail and the USPS website it arrived n New York 2 days later but has still not got to him and is being 'processed through the system'. As I have provided the number i'm hoping they dont refund the payment and give it time to get to him but they are a law unto themselves.

[Eck]

All my items up for auction say UK bidders only.

[Wullie]

Likewise. I don't sell abroad

[oldbolt]

I sell abroad regularly and don't pay for a tracked service, they are only low value £10 - £15 items and none have gone missing out of probably around 100 sales over the years.The first time one goes missing maybe i'll stop.
Anything of any value i would pay for an online signature service.I don't think Royal Mail provide an online signature in many countries, so even paying a tenner or whatever for the Royal Mail airmail insurance would most likely result in losing an ebay dispute.Even if Royal Mail say the item has been delivered in say America, without an online signature to prove it ebay will side with the buyer.

[grantham]

Don't sell abroad either, don't trust Johnny Foreigner

The fact he has already left feedback may work against HIM
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[treble99]

Not selling abroad is not the answer to this problem.
There are as many issues with selling in the UK

You end up being bigoted and biased against any non English person en ebay if you are not carefull.

The problem but not the solution lies in the weakness of the selling system and the greed it generates.
Unfortunately there is no answer to the problem other than stop selling on ebay which presumably isn't an option.

There are thieves and crooks praying on ebay buyers and sellers and ebay refuses,as many of us know,to stop them at any level.
The reason?Simply fees
Ebay will give you all the sound bytes-"we know how you feel","we do our best to protect the entire community","we take very seriously any fraudulent activities"
It's all bollocks

Paypal,in case you didn't know is ebay and they more or less force you to pay and receive by,in excess of 4%,paypal fees.
Add that to the ebay 10% and you see a whopping amount sloshing around.
All the "paypal protected" is bollocks as well.
You presume that if you buy off a seller on ebay you will get your money back whatever if the item doesn't turn up.
That's not the case.
If you don't get an item and put a claim in you only get a refund if the seller still has the cash in his paypal account.
How many thieves do you know who leave the money as a target to be snatched back.
Any crook takes the readies and runs don't they.
At that point you get the sound bytes from paypal of "we know how you feel","we have noted the sellers account and should he ever put any readies,cough,cough back in the account we will snatch it","we are very sorry this has happened but we hope you continue to consider paypal a good and safe vehicle" and lots and lots more bollocks
The seller usually appears again a week later selling the same item he doesn't have using a different name with nil feedback.
Try reporting it to ebay or paypal.You just get fucked off.
Now if they don't leave enough to pay the ebay fees that is a different matter.They consider that a hanging offence.

There is nothing you can do but belt and braces which is full insured postage(even small envelopes are covered to a small amount which might be full insurance.
Get a proof of posting or signature.Don't use arsewiped re-used envelopes or not quite franked re-used postage stamps.
ie don't give any possible excuse for it going wrong because of you.

The bad side of the above is that is might make postage and packing charge too high and there is bound to be some two bob fish and chip shop merchant who leaves you a low score on P &P.
And low scores on ebay make you a member who doesn't then qualify you for perks like free listing days.
You actually get a bollocking email from ebay telling you that"having reviewed your account you fall below our standards and your free listings are no longer available to you until you get back to their acceptable standards"
they suggest you offer free postage with your 99p item to amke buyers like you.
So to sum up that part they suggest that 99p less fees of 15p ie 84p left should qualify for a stamp and an envelope at cost of that amount approximately.
Er no thanks!!!

Ebay/paypal is a very frustrating but powerful organisation.
Let's face it you can sell items on ebay that you can't sell on collectors forum such as this(see programmes for sale at fixed price on this forum for evidence)
Most collectors forums on most items are actually dealers looking for newbies but ebay gives an unreasltic warm feeling of protection to a huge number of people.

Get used to it i'm afraid

[martino]

Hopefully I am not tempting fate but I have sold all over the world without any problems.

If the amount is over £20 I offer the buyer secure delivery as well, which they usually decline. Where they decline I send them the following message via E Bay:

"As the item is being sent outside the UK I will obtain a receipt from the Post Office but I will not be responsible for any damage or loss in transit"

Not sure how I would stand if the item is lost but, so far, it has never happened to me ................yet!

[goodison]

This may be a little harsh as some complaints may be genuine, but what I do is block any bidder who I have had problems with. Although, mostly it's been for non payment rather than items going missing, that's only happened to me twice in over 10 years of selling on eBay. Both times were for low amounts and I knew eBay/PayPal would find in their favour so I asked the buyer to wait a week and if the item didn't turn up (which they said it didn't) then I just refunded their money.

[Eck]

I have bought a few items,not received them and not took issue with the seller because I know they are genuine and have offered a refund but they were inexpensive items. One seller I did take a refund from was because I think he didn't get what he expected and didn't send it. You can usually tell in communication if they are at it or not.

[dangerman]

all the time i have been selling on ebay i have only had 1 item go missing at that was to the usa.

[treble99]

martino wrote:

Hopefully I am not tempting fate but I have sold all over the world without any problems. If the amount is over £20 I offer the buyer secure delivery as well, which they usually decline. Where they decline I send them the following message via E Bay: "As the item is being sent outside the UK I will obtain a receipt from the Post Office but I will not be responsible for any damage or loss in transit" Not sure how I would stand if the item is lost but, so far, it has never happened to me ................yet!

I can tell you how you stand out of personal experience.
No matter what you say in whatever notes it does not relieve you of your responsibility to get the item to them
You will have to refund no matter what words you use.
It's like a bump up the arse in a road accident.
No matter what the clown in front does it is the guy at the back that is at fault

[Wullie]

I don't think it is bigoted and biased not to sell abroad at all.
I have sold items abroad before without problems. But it's just something I no longer want to do. I just think it's a stress, hassle and a potential headache I could do without. it's bad enough posting to the UK.

[treble99]

Wullie wrote:

I don't think it is bigoted and biased not to sell abroad at all. I have sold items abroad before without problems. But it's just something I no longer want to do. I just think it's a stress, hassle and a potential headache I could do without. it's bad enough posting to the UK.

Everybody has the choice of who and where they sell to and your wish not to sell abroad because of the headache and hassle has to be respected.
It is also a hassle when the programmes need a large envelope or a trip to the post office to get proof of postage.
It's a hassle to get in a queue at the post office as well.
In fact i am glad i don't have to use the post office too often.
All a bit of a hassle this selling lark

[Wullie]

Well it's a lot less hassle selling to someone in the UK. You know roughly the price of postage, you can use postage of certificate , Recorded or Special Delivery. 99 per cent of the time it should arrive within two days.
If there is a problem then at least you'll find out about it quickly.
If that makes me a raving UK Independence Party fruit cake , racist nutcase in some peoples eyes then so be it.

[Wullie]

In fact, by refusing not to sell your !921 FA Cup Final programme to someone in Slovenia is probably breaking the EEC Law, as it's probably against his human rights. I wouldn't laugh. A year from now, you may be legally bound to post your most treasured programme off to some Eastern European block knowing full well it will vanish in to the "system forever ".

[treble99]

the point is that everything is hassle if you allow it to become a hassle.
Even scanning and listing on ebay can be deemed a hassle if you are not good with computers and scanners.

Its what suits you personally.

This started as an "is it fair for me to be screwed by paypal for something i know i've posted" and has ended up as a racism column because some postie in America has shoved it through the wrong door or their system has got like the English system and just lost it.
Some how or another it has ended up as a BNP advert

You can see why people don't post unless they have to.
Just too much hassle
And what does the Post Office do.
It shoves up prices

[Wullie]

privatisation will make it even more fun. We will end up with about 20 different choices and different pricing depending on the area in the country it is posted to.