Football Programmes Centre

flashhat · Joined: 28 Nov 2010 Posts: 1117 Location: Buckingham

Just looking through my 40's collection, and re-boxing them, and realised a lot of my 1945-1960 programmes are really poor condition, with the expected creases & folds, rusty and bleeding staples, bits missing, holes from staples that have rusted away, pen marks, general grubbyness etc. Am I really likely to replace these issue's with good condition copies? Seems all that era programmes are 'poor', so why do we bother? Are these worth collecting, knowing full well I'll never replace them. I know the paper then was scarce etc, but they really do not tend to stand the tests of time. Are most teams of this era the same? Thoughts please.
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slightfold · Joined: 13 Oct 2009 Posts: 607

It is doubtful whether you will ever find truly mint 50/60 year old or older programmes, as there is aging, but excellent copies are out there.You can defo upgrade, but slowly! IMO the biggest enemies of programmes are people and air. The more you handle them the worse they get. Air carries moisture which causes the dreaded staple rust.We all have our various ways of storage. Personally I remove rusty staples if they are showing bleed which can get worse, and keep them in sealed plastic bags, and very rarely handle them. This way, for me keeps them as good as I can. I'm just focussed on the ones I am still looking for, and not bothered about the ones I have got, if that sounds daft,

redmiddyman · Joined: 31 Dec 2011 Posts: 36

i believe you can collect excellent to mint condition even in the 40's and 50's... It will take many many years though. I wont purchase general league or cup games unless they are clean with tokens and no creasing or team changes... call me mad but thats the challenge i set myself!

I picked up some really nice condition programmes at the cresta court hotel fair which i was pleased with, specially a couple of more sought after issues.

Where I allow abit more flexibility is with the pre wars and reserve/single sheet issues.... i do allow minor flaws. I have wardrobes in my daughters bedroom full of programmes im not happy with but am keeping till they are replaced... im getting there slowly!

redmiddyman · Joined: 31 Dec 2011 Posts: 36

and just to add...

The trouble is with buying programmes as excellent or mint on ebay is in reality they are not as described!

Ive purchased a few that look good on photo and descibed as excellent with no flaws only to open the envelope and i'd descibe as reasonable at best!

Tynie Topics · Joined: 26 Nov 2009 Posts: 3574

I don't mind a bit of "match wear" as I call it, a slight crease here or there, or a neat team change, it adds to the history of the item, you know it was definitely at the game.

Mint items from the 40/50's, whilst desirable, are likely to have been unsold copies left in a box.
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derby1884 · Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:42 am Post subject:

I've been quite lucky with my 1945-1960 Derby programmes in that the paper wasn't "low quality" and, with the lineups always in the centre pages, as opposed to the back pages,it maybe stopped people from scribbling team changes in.

Having said that, I don't mind the creasing and even rusty staples - might detract slightly from value but adds to the "authenticity", so to speak.

I've always found Stoke City homes to be particularly prone to "mishandling" due to the low grade paper and, perhaps obviously, the Spurs and West Ham 4-pagers due to their size.

Maybe there's a lot to be said for the Plymouth/Palace/Walsall-style pocket sized issues of the early 60s?
If only they'd put the bloody opposition and date on the cover Shake

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Poolec · Joined: 15 Nov 2009 Posts: 41

Quote:

If only they'd put the bloody opposition and date on the cover

Same problem with Leeds on most pre 1960 programmes - annoys the hell out of me keep having to write a label each time and stick it on the wallet rather than just read it on the front of the programme. If you don't they all look the same.

I also agree on the condition comments made. I much prefer to have a clean cover but I don't mind sensible inside markings. Team changes/scorers/score written inside authenticates it a bit for me and I like to think that the programme was bought at the match and read/used during it. Strangely though this is only for the older programmes - once it gets to the mid sixties and after prefer them to have no markings. It's not a value thing so not sure why my view changes with age.

LCFCmatt · Joined: 13 Dec 2011 Posts: 123

redmiddyman wrote:

The trouble is with buying programmes as excellent or mint on ebay is in reality they are not as described!

Aint that the truth!! Sad

In 2009 I bought a couple of Leicester City programmes from the 1963/64 season. They were both described as MINT condition.
When they arrived they had rusty staples.
I contacted the seller to inform him of my disappointment. I was very polite about it and said that it may have been an oversight etc and that he should look more closely for any flaws in the future.
After a couple of arsey replies he sent me some new staples in the post, told me to change them and to stop being so damn fussy!

Funny now, but not at the time....

Wullie · Joined: 10 Jun 2009 Posts: 3427

Points taken, but on the other hand you get the Obsessive–compulsive disorder fruitcakes who like to say how you did not tell him all about the faint pencil attendence recorded on page 6, or the 1.5 mm tear on the back page of the 85 year old programme you just sold to him. Such people have no sense of reality and should seek counselling.

slightfold · Joined: 13 Oct 2009 Posts: 607

Thinking about this further, I would say you can upgrade to mint, if mint exists! Perhaps we need to agree a definition of what mint is. In vinyl records, the only mint copy is one that is sealed and has never been opened, and is therefore unplayed. For this to be true for a programme, it either has to be put into protective custody immediately when bought at the match and carried home thus, or come from unsold stock and bought later. It is hard to find older programmes which even if they are free from writing which do not display some form of handling/creasing. They were bought to read at the match so were not handled like the crown jewels. I too don't mind neat team changes or half times if they are not on the cover. All we can do is try to keep them in as good a condition as we can, so maybe best not to eat fish and chips with your hands when reading your pre-war cup finals.

Wullie · Joined: 10 Jun 2009 Posts: 3427

Mint in the coin world means untouched by human hands. slightfold you are correct. The true meaning of the word mint is pre-owned goods, therefore by the fact that someone buys a programme and holds it, it is no longer mint. I always find it a silly word for collectors to use. Excellent, near perfect, very good contiion, anything but mint, please.