United BBC programme

[holtie96]

Just wondered what people made of the film last night. Did a united player really smoke a pipe in the tunnel, mark jones? I collect Munich memorabilia so if you have anything of interest please let me know.
Cheers

[Auchinleckian]

I thought it a well balanced programme. It seemed fairly factually correct so I would hesitate to doubt the pipe smoking. Perhaps Treble99 or manchesterunitedman1 could shed some light on it?

[vintage_football_memorabi]

I have a number of Duncan Edwards signed pictures should you be interested Holtie.

[CarlisleUtdMem]

Quite strange seeing Brunton Park with an Industrial area behind the Petril End!
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Adam

[nozer]

Must say was rather disappointed myselfe , somehowe drama/docs about football just dont cut the mustard.
Allegedly the late great Roy Vernon (Everton) used to have a smoke in the players tunnel before the game.

[ForestMick]

Apparently, Matt Busby's son wasn't too happy about some of the factual content.
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[ToffeeDan]

nozer wrote:

Must say was rather disappointed myselfe , somehowe drama/docs about football just dont cut the mustard. Allegedly the late great Roy Vernon (Everton) used to have a smoke in the players tunnel before the game.

Indeed he did.

[speedykev]

ForestMick wrote:

Apparently, Matt Busby's son wasn't too happy about some of the factual content.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-13181651

[ToffeeDan]

speedykev wrote:

ForestMick wrote: Apparently, Matt Busby's son wasn't too happy about some of the factual content. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-13181651

I thought it was excellent myself. They were focussing on Murphy so why get so indignant. I didn't think Busby's memory was abused in this version.

[treble99]

i didn't watch the programme "live" but i recorded it and i have watched it since.
you can argue from every angle depending on your viewpoint.
if you are a member of the Busby family and were not asked for any input at all or offered no fee at all you would be upset.
i am told that when Harry Gregg saw the programme he demanded that his name be removed from any connection to the work as it was so factually wrong.
Harry says there was no smoking in the tunnel.
also in the scene when they reviewed the 1958 FA Cup final Harry is shown as the captain when in fact it was Bill Foulkes.
Harry was shown as wearing black shorts when in fact he wore normal white shorts and normal socks as goalkeepers wore in that era.
to be honest there is no need to get these wrong as there is plenty of Pathe News footage of this game.
also i think Bolton's strip was shown as having red in the sleeves(may be wrong on that one)
Jimmy Murphy is depicted by an actor who is 6'2" and quite lean when in fact Jimmy was quite a short man who had bulked up after his own West Brom playing career had ended.
Bobby Charlton's character was played by an actor who looked like Law

apart from that what was left was factually correct.
a plane did indeed crash and people were killed.

as a piece of commercial television with as the BBC sound bites say "was a drama and not a documentary"
i think that sums up the BBC
they make a programme that they can sell to any TV country that has a Manchester United fanbase and worry about the facts later
it is impossible to cover the life stories of so many of the people who were involved in the plane crash in a 90 minute programme.
i am not sure why you need to make a factually incorrect drama rather than a documentary about a couple of characters rather than a whole club and the also barely cover the journalists who died.
it is not an anniversary year of the Munich crash so i am not sure why it was made at all.
i am not sure what it was trying to achieve other than to make money rather than show an inspirational recovery.

not sure if Jimmy Murphy junior got a (decent)fee for the programme.i hope he did as i am led to believe his father was not particularly well looked after financially,by United, when he retired
that said Matt Busby himself was also treated shodilly by United when he retired.they took his car off him and took his secretary off him and gave his office away.
it was only when Alex Ferguson intervened and demanded that these privileges were returned that the United board sat up.
Sir Matt was in his 70's and his wife had passed away and he "needed" something to keep him active.
Alex used to send the late kit manager,Norman Davies to collect Matt from home on 2 mornings a week.
Alex gave Matt an office directly opposite Alex Fergusons and Alex also gave Matt his secretary to answer his many little requests and fan mail.
the two great men would then finish the morning with a lunch in what was then known as the grill room at Old Trafford, which was open to the public for lunch.
that was just enough to keep Matt interested and more importantly a purpose to live.
also you can't buy what Matt knew about football and Sir Alex was not going to just waste all the experience,knowledge and understanding that Matt had
that is also what respect is all about.
you knew of it in Shankly' era in the bootroom
Chelsea adored the 54/55 champions(they still do).
Leeds had it as did other clubs even down to the likes of Crewe with the same manager for so long.
they all had one thing in common in those days.
the players and staff got no money.
how many of our heroes finished up skint selling medals,shirts caps and flogging newspapers and fags from a hole in a wall..
50,000 to 70,000 fans a week and they were on a fiver a week and not insured either.

finally a true story from Harry Gregg
when the plane crashed the players were not insured(as stated in the TV drama).
they relied on a fund set up by the Lord Mayor of Manchester
British Airways insurers sent the survivors £50 eaxh within a few weeks of the crash to cover luggage etc that was lost on the plane.
about a year later when a settlement of £500 was agreed by the airlines insurers to the survivors the actual cheque recieved by Harry was £450.
the tight bastards took the £50 back because they could

i hope i have not bored you guys too much

[reddevilsineurope]

treble99 wrote:

i didn't watch the programme "live" but i recorded it and i have watched it since. you can argue from every angle depending on your viewpoint. if you are a member of the Busby family and were not asked for any input at all or offered no fee at all you would be upset. i am told that when Harry Gregg saw the programme he demanded that his name be removed from any connection to the work as it was so factually wrong. Harry says there was no smoking in the tunnel. also in the scene when they reviewed the 1958 FA Cup final Harry is shown as the captain when in fact it was Bill Foulkes. Harry was shown as wearing black shorts when in fact he wore normal white shorts and normal socks as goalkeepers wore in that era. to be honest there is no need to get these wrong as there is plenty of Pathe News footage of this game. also i think Bolton's strip was shown as having red in the sleeves(may be wrong on that one) Jimmy Murphy is depicted by an actor who is 6'2" and quite lean when in fact Jimmy was quite a short man who had bulked up after his own West Brom playing career had ended. Bobby Charlton's character was played by an actor who looked like Law apart from that what was left was factually correct. a plane did indeed crash and people were killed. as a piece of commercial television with as the BBC sound bites say "was a drama and not a documentary" i think that sums up the BBC they make a programme that they can sell to any TV country that has a Manchester United fanbase and worry about the facts later it is impossible to cover the life stories of so many of the people who were involved in the plane crash in a 90 minute programme. i am not sure why you need to make a factually incorrect drama rather than a documentary about a couple of characters rather than a whole club and the also barely cover the journalists who died. it is not an anniversary year of the Munich crash so i am not sure why it was made at all. i am not sure what it was trying to achieve other than to make money rather than show an inspirational recovery. not sure if Jimmy Murphy junior got a (decent)fee for the programme.i hope he did as i am led to believe his father was not particularly well looked after financially,by United, when he retired that said Matt Busby himself was also treated shodilly by United when he retired.they took his car off him and took his secretary off him and gave his office away. it was only when Alex Ferguson intervened and demanded that these privileges were returned that the United board sat up. Sir Matt was in his 70's and his wife had passed away and he "needed" something to keep him active. Alex used to send the late kit manager,Norman Davies to collect Matt from home on 2 mornings a week. Alex gave Matt an office directly opposite Alex Fergusons and Alex also gave Matt his secretary to answer his many little requests and fan mail. the two great men would then finish the morning with a lunch in what was then known as the grill room at Old Trafford, which was open to the public for lunch. that was just enough to keep Matt interested and more importantly a purpose to live. also you can't buy what Matt knew about football and Sir Alex was not going to just waste all the experience,knowledge and understanding that Matt had that is also what respect is all about. you knew of it in Shankly' era in the bootroom Chelsea adored the 54/55 champions(they still do). Leeds had it as did other clubs even down to the likes of Crewe with the same manager for so long. they all had one thing in common in those days. the players and staff got no money. how many of our heroes finished up skint selling medals,shirts caps and flogging newspapers and fags from a hole in a wall.. 50,000 to 70,000 fans a week and they were on a fiver a week and not insured either. finally a true story from Harry Gregg when the plane crashed the players were not insured(as stated in the TV drama). they relied on a fund set up by the Lord Mayor of Manchester British Airways insurers sent the survivors £50 eaxh within a few weeks of the crash to cover luggage etc that was lost on the plane. about a year later when a settlement of £500 was agreed by the airlines insurers to the survivors the actual cheque recieved by Harry was £450. the tight bastards took the £50 back because they could i hope i have not bored you guys too much

Thank you for a cracking post,could i just add in david smiths book betrayal of a legend it is mentioned united had £112,000 insurance split between the club and dependents of the dead players,£10,000 split between the club and johnny berry,jackie blanchflower.
In 1963 BEA paid £35,000 five years after being sued-was this money split?,also the friendlies played were monies raised kept fully by the club?
Have you any idea what happened to david smith after the supporters club was wound up....thank you....

[treble99]

i don't know what happened to David Smith so i can't comment.
it is common knowledge that the club were shamed into having the Munich Memorial match so long after after the crash and that in itself caused untold rows.
some of the players such as Dennis Violet had remarried and also he had died so who got the cash.the wife at the time of the crash or the last wife
also what was the split between those that didn't need money such as Bobby Charlton and those that didn't have a pot to piss in such as Albert Scanlon?
Duncan Edwards parents had lived on nothing all their lives and his mum even got mugged and robbed by some toe rag towards the end of her life.
Jackie Blanchfloer eaked out a living on the after dinner circuit before cancer got him.
Harry Greg is totally bitter having survived 2 bouts of cancer himself with help only from the PFA and not United.

[Cantona93]

I accept that there were a number of factual inaccuracies but I thought it was beautifully shot, the acting was excellent and the script wasn't overdone;the silences were moving.
What also came across very well was the contrast between that era of working class camaraderie and local pride and the present one of image rights, global branding and mercenary players.
Yes the players were probably exploited by the clubs but these days its the fans who are instead!
As for the timing of the programme it was shown I think on Good Friday so the theme of resurrection may have had something to do with it.

[Kickoff3pm]

I don't really know about the factual part but I heard somewhere that the writers asked all the people that wanted to contribute. I think it's hard to tie all the different aspects of a story together and hope to keep everyone happy isn't it?

The program itself was ok but for me lacked the time to cover the story in enough detail. It did focus on a few points of view and I think thats never a good idea. After all this time it's hard to get the real story as it gets blured with emotions.

It means the writers decided to promote those events they want to and do less on others. But because the others were importent they took the focus in people's minds I think.

So what you ended up with was a bit of a muddled view that the team had many chances to survive the trip or even not go at all. This leads you to try to find blame and I think that's proberbly what the program was all about for the writers.

Sad really after all those years I would have thought more would have been said about those that lost their lives or the livilhoods but as I say the time gets limited but for me they could have left most the Bobby Charlton story out.

[reddevilsineurope]

[quote="Kickoff3pm"]I don't really know about the factual part but I heard somewhere that the writers asked all the people that wanted to contribute. I think it's hard to tie all the different aspects of a story together and hope to keep everyone happy isn't it?

The program itself was ok but for me lacked the time to cover the story in enough detail. It did focus on a few points of view and I think thats never a good idea. After all this time it's hard to get the real story as it gets blured with emotions.

It means the writers decided to promote those events they want to and do less on others. But because the others were importent they took the focus in people's minds I think.

So what you ended up with was a bit of a muddled view that the team had many chances to survive the trip or even not go at all. This leads you to try to find blame and I think that's proberbly what the program was all about for the writers.

Sad really after all those years I would have thought more would have been said about those that lost their lives or the livilhoods but as I say the time gets limited but for me they could have left most the Bobby Charlton story out.[/quote]

The programme makers stated that the story was a look at Bobby charlton and Jimmy Murphy as to how the crash affected them and there relationship,(not an actual programme about the crash itself).
Tragic to hear about how Harry Gregg etc have been left by united,and then theres the trouble regarding Eric Cantonas supposed fees for the Munich memorial match....