Portsmouth 1920/1 action photos

[Pete’s Picture Palace]

Well, the 2 photos shown have come my way, not cheaply, but 1920/1 press photos aren't easy to track down so I couldn't resist.

They are both stamped "Graphic Photo Union" of Grays Inn Road, London WC1. Sadly no other information shows, so I don't know the precise date or opponents.

Pompey in 1920/1 were in Division Three in its first season, before it became "South". It's a huge crowd at Fratton Park so maybe it was a fairly local derby or an early or end of season game, the pitch looks pretty good.

In the top photo, Pompey (in the lighter shirts) are on the attack and their player is grounded (right). The Pompey badge is clearly shown on his chest. The visiting keeper collects the ball and a teammate offers protection. My guess is that the away team wears red shirts (or maybe green) and white shorts with hooped socks of a different colour, maybe black.

In the lower photo, it must be the Pompey keeper clearing as he's wearing different socks to the keeper in the top pic, but Pompey are also wearing black socks with a hoop as can also be seen on their defender in this shot.

So I'm asking if anyone can hazard an educated guess at the opposition, please. I'll list all their opponents at Fratton in that season below the second photo. Sorry about the necessary watermark - I'll email or PM you the clean version on request.





1920-1 opponents:

28th Aug Swansea
8th Sept Luton
18th Sept Southampton
25th Sept Millwall
16th Oct Northampton
30th Oct Newport
13th Nov Southend
27th Nov Gillingham
11th Dec Merthyr
18th Dec Swindon
27th Dec Watford
15th Jan Reading
5th Feb Plymouth
12th Feb Bristol Rovers
26th Feb Brentford
12th Mar Norwich
25th Mar Exeter
2nd Apr Crystal Palace
16th Apr Brighton
30th Apr Grimsby
7th May QPR

Thanks for looking and in anticipation. They are for sale if anyone is interested. Please PM me if so.

[pompeypete]

Unable to help Pete....

Never heard of "Graphic Photo Union".

Looking through picts / handbooks of 1914.15 & 1927 all the photos were by Stephen Cribb.
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[Pete’s Picture Palace]

Thanks Pete - GPU are just a London press agency. Or were. I've had others in the past with their stamp on. Shame they never dated it.

Does it compare with any other images of that period in terms of stadium, stands etc?

[pompeypete]

Looking at the top picture. The stand looks new if its at fratton park,so It could be the south stand, 360 ft long, twice as long as the predecessor.

But was buit in 1924.25

1st game of the 1925 season at home v middlesbrough.

Unless the photos are marked 1920.21.

On second thoughts the stand could be the North stand looking towards the milton end (un covered)
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[Pete’s Picture Palace]

Pete
Don't think it's Boro as they had white shoulders on their shirts for years back then.
They aren't marked as 20/1 but were sold to me as that, although I have no idea how the seller knew that.
They must be in that sort of era though, and 1925/6 would be good as it's Division Two.
Thanks, I was hoping you'd have some idea with dates of the new stand, a good bit of local knowledge.
Cheers
Pete

[pompeypete]

Pete, I have edited my previous reply.

I now think its the North stand looking towards the open milton end.

The new stand was on the South side.

I,ll keep looking.
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[Pete’s Picture Palace]

Yes, the new South Stand ISN'T in either picture.

In your picture right at the far end is the stand the keeper is kicking towards in my second photo, whatever stand that is, so the keeper would have had the New south Stand on his left as we look.

In the top photo it's the reverse angle, taken from the other end.

[PompeyPhil]

Hopefully this might help Pete(s)....the two original photographs posted are:

Your First Photograph shows the North Stand with the Milton End (Banked Terraces) in the Back ground.



This Picture is dated 1924 and shows the North Stand in the back ground.

Your Second Photograph shows the Fratton End. (Taken from the Milton End).



This Picture is taken from the Fratton End looking accross to the "old" South Stand and is Dated 1920.

Looking at the photographs and checking the records (and I am not an expert!) I believe it is possible they could relate to a early "South Coast" Derby versus Southampton?



This Photo was taken/dated March 18th 1922......records detail an attendance of 26,382. This was the highest attendance at Fratton Park that season by some number......the previous season 1920-21 saw an attendance of 20,585, again against Southampton. Comparing the photographs is it possible the opposition is Southampton?

As for the Photographs Pete (Great Photos).......I noted them in a recent auction and thought they were part of a Portsmouth William "Bill" Probert Collection? He joined Pompey in 1911 and played regularly for Pompey during the 1st World War (whilst working in the Dockyard). He was a member of the 1st Team during the maiden 3rd Division Season 1920-21. (Pompey's first as a Football League Member).



This picture is the Portsmouth team photograph for the 1920-21 season and shows a proud Pompey team with the Southern League Champions 1919-20 season Trophy. Bill is sat proudly to the left of the huge trophy with the choir boy center parting!! Not sure if any of this helps but I did laugh when researching all this when i found an entry for a game that took place on the 22nd January 1921 Plymouth v Portsmouth. The attendance was recorded as .......Large. Absolutely brilliant......

[Pete’s Picture Palace]

Phil, thank you for all this information and your efforts. I knew you Pompey guys would come up trumps.

One puzzling thing for me though is, if it is Pompey v Saints in 1922, why are Southampton not wearing their usual striped kit accompanied by royal blue shorts, which they wore from 1896 to 1950? Your photo with them running onto the pitch suggests that - in your photo, can you see more clearly if they have white rings on their socks?

The lot I bought didn't have Probert mentioned on it but the next lot did so maybe they had been together at some point and were split up. Did you win the other lots?

Could it be Probert on the ground in the top photo?

[Pete’s Picture Palace]

Hang about - in the photo of Pompey v Southampton which you show, aren't they all Pompey players running out?

[PompeyPhil]

The scans aren't too good Pete but in the book it does appear that two of the players (saints) running onto the pitch are in darker shirts? Certainly in your first photo (and possibly the second) the crowd looks jammed packed) suggesting a possible Derby match against Saints purely because of the attendance records for the early 20's..........I could be wrong

[amazorblade]

I think its very unlikely to be v southampton for the comment earlier about the kit. I also do not recognise the non-Portsmouth players in the first photo as being Southampton players.

[Pete’s Picture Palace]

Thank you Blade, I'm with you on that - why on Earth would Saints not be wearing their traditional kit on such an occasion? I am in touch with a Saints historian so I'll ask him later.

But it is a jam-packed crowd - could be the first game, or last, or a vital game. We may never know.

[Pete’s Picture Palace]

Another Pompey expert (and ex-collector - dammit!) says the grounded player in top pic is Jimmy Easson, who played for Pompey from 1928 to 1939.

That puts a cat among the pigeons.

Does that era fit in with the stadium then? Is he right?

Easson

[PompeyPhil]

Second Go......if we take it the believed date of the photo(s) are correct and they are from the 1920-21 season then I believe I have narrowed it down to two possible opposition teams........I have checked all the kits worn by the teams in the Division 3 League that season on the "Historic Kit" website and come up with only these two possibles....

Millwall.......25th September 1920 Attendance 16,000. Their kit for the period 1911-23 was Black socks with white stripes, white shorts and a dark blue shirt.

Swindon.......18th December 1920 Attendance 11,111. Their Kit for the period 1918-20 was Black socks with white stripes, white shorts and a dark red shirt. For the date period 1920-23 the only change was a to a white collar.

I couldn't tell you from your photo's if the opposition is wearing dark red or blue shirts!!!

Have a look Pete and see what you think!!

Oh God as I type this i've just noticed your latest update.......only thing is during the 1928 season onwards the crowds grew quite considerable for some games i.e Aston Villa 32,050, Spurs 30,000 etc that tends to fit with the amount of fans that are packed in!!

[Pete’s Picture Palace]

Thanks Phil - yes, all change on the date by the look of it.

One thing I would say, it surely can't be blue shirts on the away team. Unless Pompey changed to red?

Cheers!

[DonQuixote]

I'm throwing my hat into the ring with....

1931-2 Portsmouth v Arsenal FAC5

[Pete’s Picture Palace]

Looking like it's Pompey v Liverpool, late 20's/early 30's as the keeper is Elisha Scott. (Liverpool 1912-1934).

Thanks everyone for your help.

[Pete’s Picture Palace]

Now confirmed it's Pompey v Liverpool, still working on a date.

Elisha Scott is the very famous Liverpool keeper, and John "Jock" Gilfillan is Pompey's and he made 359 appearances for the club.

Here's Jock



Top photo #1 is now sold, lower photo #2 isn't.

[pompeypete]

I expect you have put this one to bed by now.....

Just for info

Elisha Scott, Jock Gilfillan & Jimmy Easson all played in the pompey v liverpool matches between 1929/30 to 1932/33 seasons.

But the attendances are only average 17 to 22,000 from a ground that can hold 30,000, infact one season its only less than 5,000.
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RESPECT..................

Flickr pages in the process of closing......

Happy to forward any info on Pompey...