CHELSEA V MANCHESTER UNITED

[treble99]

Well the item i posted yesterday covering the Manchester Derby seems to have had a modicum of success so i will try to amuse you again.
I will be in London next weekend for a game that only a month ago would have be feared by all Manchester United fans
Now the challenge is looked forward to with relish and hope
I will be sat amongst the Chelsea fans,having been unsuccessful, once again, in the Manchester United ballot
Clearly a few quid as a sponsor gets significantly more priority over a 50 year plus,go everywhere supporter.
I hear the Thomas Cook ipad branch has nobbed almost half of the tickets with a significant other portion going to the Chevrolet Scandinavian fans(or as Bazza would put it every Tom Dick and Sven
Anyway as a result i will be eating lunch and prawn sarnies with a friendly Chelsea collecting friend.
I don't think i will know what is on offer as i expect all the menus to vanish early
Anyway i offer this programme from Chelsea v Manchester United from season 1907/08 when Manchester United won the league
https://www.flickr.com/photos/63580000@N04/17129603572/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/63580000@N04/17131174755/in/photostream/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/63580000@N04/16943652400/in/photostream/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/63580000@N04/17131193955/in/photostream/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/63580000@N04/16943421798/in/photostream/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/63580000@N04/17105255266/in/photostream/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/63580000@N04/17105267636/in/photostream/

anybody get the ticket and the menu

[blue50]

A serious question treble in general what percentage of a United home crowd would you say was a one off only organised trip?

[treble99]

that is a very interesting question to consider and a very difficult question to answer

I am totally confident that Manchester United have those complete statistics and i don't have access to them

But to keep the topic going let me give you some things to consider to help the debate.
You have to think outside the box and forget the obvious.

The Glazers,who i have no time for and totally and only interested in the commercial aspect of the club
I have a theory,that is easy to dismiss,that the fcukkers would happily leave United bankrupt if they got it all
Totally impossible i hear you say
Well they said that about Glasgow Rangers,and Portsmouth and Hearts didn't they.
For clarity and to leave this part of the debate alone Manchester United no longer has fans that support the football club.
It has followers that support the brand
Also ALL of Manchester United's big deals are contracted to the Caymans Island,New York listed company
I don't think very much,if any,of that money gets back to Old Trafford.
i wouldn't know as it is easier to find out about Al Capone's accounts than it is Manchester United's accounts
I do know the debt,that has to be reported keeps going up despite the fortunes coming in for shirt deals and the like.

So back to your question.
After Ferguson retired the team was recognised as under invested in for years.
It became obvious that all the cash had either been spent on interest or or Glazer fees and dividends
Ferguson was kept quiet by being given £2m a year to be a club figurehead.
He had already been allowed to make what looked like daft transfer deals for the likes of Bebe and Mame Diouf and Toscic
It makes a bit more sense when you understand that all the players had the same agent,in Mendes who just happened to be an associate of Alex Ferguson's son
Also personally scouted by United's chief scout Martin Ferguson(yep Alex Ferguson's brother)
All bought for a lot and sold for peanuts
Hmmmm

So United playing crap couldn't sell the season tickets for the first time since the 1950's
So what do they do?
They go to Scandinavia and apologise to the United fan club for neglecting them and tell them they are going to make 500 tickets available to them and put on flights for 500 fans every game(with proud sponsors Thomas Cook)
They are going to provide 500 hotel rooms(at full rack rate)
I wonder who gets a commission for filling 8 or 9 hotels

It goes that well that the Scandinavians want more tickets.
Unfortunately all that is available is the VIP package.Prices from £299 plus VAT to £499 plus VAT,depending on the opposition
So now you have a seat you couldn't sell for £800 for the season bringing you in an average of £8500 for the season
All you have added for this VIP package is a defrosted burger and chips.
They have and continue to do this with the Hong Kong ipad branch
Easy to spot as they all have a long selfie pole and queue for 2 hours in the freezing cold by the players car park after the game

I do know that United have totally priced the local family out of the game.
But that's the future and greed is now

Tbf it's no better at Manchester City as they have increased season ticket prices for next season by £900 even though they can't fill the ground now
I have no idea why they are extending the capacity of the stadium.
Must be planning some concerts

Are Arsenal any better?

[blue50]

Thanks treble a very interesting read hope the thread keeps going
Watching on TV I did notice quite a few 50/50 scarves!
As an Evertonian recently I went to our match away at Arsenal last month
bought my senior ticket through our allocation from our club.....£16!
Was speaking to some Arsenal supporters on the way back their tickets £56!

[manchesterunitedman1]

Manchester United played twice at Chelsea in 1907-1908 as the very first Charity Shield was played at Stamford Bridge between League One winners United and Queens Park Rangers Champions of the Southern League. The game ended 0-0 in front of a very sparse crowd of around 12,000 or so? and was replayed also at Chelsea at the start of 1908-09, United eventualy won 4-0 in front of 40,000.

The examples below are all from the 1st match in 1907-1908

https://flic.kr/p/duVfPX
https://flic.kr/p/dv1R65
https://flic.kr/p/dv1R47
https://flic.kr/p/duVfSn

and then from 1908-9
https://flic.kr/p/958f7v
https://flic.kr/p/4g8JcB
https://flic.kr/p/duVc2B
https://flic.kr/p/4Upe8t
https://flic.kr/p/duW1tg

Also Manchester United won the "Treble" 1907-08/1908-9

https://flic.kr/p/bwZCvf

[treble99]

And that's cheap
I was after a ticket for Arsenal v Manchester United this season.
I was offered one in the Arsenal end
To be honest is was a very good seat near the half way line but the price was £125 face value

Just picking back up on the Manchester United thread they post sold out signs for every game at Old Trafford now whether they are sold out or not.
The only thing available is always hospitality packages
It increases the demand if people believe they are sold out

I remember reading a story once about how a new restaurant "took off"
As soon as they opened they told people they were fully booked for a month in advance
they weren't but once the "lie" spread that they were full everybody started booking a month in advance

[BAZZABAGGIES]

I had these in a bound volume once

What happened to Scot Cheshires Chelsea collection.

I viewed it once in Barlaston Staffs he had everything on Chelsea back to the year dot.

[treble99]

when he died it all went to auction in one go

For the first and only time in their lives the 3 Chelsea lunatics all made peace and carved it up.

That what happens when you sell it all in one go

Since then one of them had to sell up due to "circumstances beyond his control" and so it got redistributed again via Sportingold

[BAZZABAGGIES]

Nice bloke
AS well as having everything programme wise.
He had 3 South Shields v Chelsea 1920s and several thousand photographs
I purchased 40 REPRINTED Bound Volumes off him for £5 each
His son was flogging them on Ebay recently

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/3544441

[treble99]

i barely knew him and only met him a couple of times

He was,from what i could see, the most polite and knowledgeable man you could hope to meet.
He had been going to games and collecting from a child and obviously when i got to know him he was an old man
Many of his rocking horse programmes had been collected by himself at the game pre war

A true collecting collector in every sense of the words and didn't need his wife to give him permission to spend a fiver every third month

[BAZZABAGGIES]

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/catalog/12587/page22

I spy a Manchester United v Chelsea Pre War single sheet on the catalogue

[Paul Johnson]

treble99 wrote:

that is a very interesting question to consider and a very difficult question to answer I am totally confident that Manchester United have those complete statistics and i don't have access to them But to keep the topic going let me give you some things to consider to help the debate. You have to think outside the box and forget the obvious. The Glazers,who i have no time for and totally and only interested in the commercial aspect of the club I have a theory,that is easy to dismiss,that the fcukkers would happily leave United bankrupt if they got it all Totally impossible i hear you say Well they said that about Glasgow Rangers,and Portsmouth and Hearts didn't they. For clarity and to leave this part of the debate alone Manchester United no longer has fans that support the football club. It has followers that support the brand Also ALL of Manchester United's big deals are contracted to the Caymans Island,New York listed company I don't think very much,if any,of that money gets back to Old Trafford. i wouldn't know as it is easier to find out about Al Capone's accounts than it is Manchester United's accounts I do know the debt,that has to be reported keeps going up despite the fortunes coming in for shirt deals and the like. So back to your question. After Ferguson retired the team was recognised as under invested in for years. It became obvious that all the cash had either been spent on interest or or Glazer fees and dividends Ferguson was kept quiet by being given £2m a year to be a club figurehead. He had already been allowed to make what looked like daft transfer deals for the likes of Bebe and Mame Diouf and Toscic It makes a bit more sense when you understand that all the players had the same agent,in Mendes who just happened to be an associate of Alex Ferguson's son Also personally scouted by United's chief scout Martin Ferguson(yep Alex Ferguson's brother) All bought for a lot and sold for peanuts Hmmmm So United playing crap couldn't sell the season tickets for the first time since the 1950's So what do they do? They go to Scandinavia and apologise to the United fan club for neglecting them and tell them they are going to make 500 tickets available to them and put on flights for 500 fans every game(with proud sponsors Thomas Cook) They are going to provide 500 hotel rooms(at full rack rate) I wonder who gets a commission for filling 8 or 9 hotels It goes that well that the Scandinavians want more tickets. Unfortunately all that is available is the VIP package.Prices from £299 plus VAT to £499 plus VAT,depending on the opposition So now you have a seat you couldn't sell for £800 for the season bringing you in an average of £8500 for the season All you have added for this VIP package is a defrosted burger and chips. They have and continue to do this with the Hong Kong ipad branch Easy to spot as they all have a long selfie pole and queue for 2 hours in the freezing cold by the players car park after the game I do know that United have totally priced the local family out of the game. But that's the future and greed is now Tbf it's no better at Manchester City as they have increased season ticket prices for next season by £900 even though they can't fill the ground now I have no idea why they are extending the capacity of the stadium. Must be planning some concerts Are Arsenal any better?

no we are not but then the working man has been priced out of it by a new generation that have no passion for the club but go because it is fashionable. I cringe at our home support and some of the muppets that now follow our club. Maybe it is our age but i wish we could go back to pre-premiership games when we had the terrraces, cheap tickets and been able to stand with your mates.
i have given up the option of a ticket for the coming Hull v Arsenal game at KC as it is £50 for a ticket not paying out of principle not affordability, where will it stop?
Im afraid both our clubs are run by Yanks who have no interest in our clubs apart from profit margins.

[treble99]

agree sort of

Yours don't need the money as they are wealthy people.
Ours is a total unknown

On paper ours are worth a fortune but they own shopping malls that are supposed to be half empty
They own an American football franchise that has gone fromSuperbown champions to bottom 5 years running with no fanbase
They borrowed most of what they paid for United and still owe it

Arsenal seem to be represented by a manager who seems to think that 3rd or 4th is fine with a good profit
Our old manager wants a share of everything past and present
Tbf he won us a lot but he got and still gets a lot

[markb9060]

Ray, are you aware that you got a mention tonight on the Paddy Crerand show on MUTV?

Were you trying to get the living legend sloshed?!

[treble99]

i haven't seen the show so i didn't know

Was it the 3 goal thing?
I have always said i can't relax until United are 3 goals up

We talk about it all the time when we travel to away games
For my sins i take him to every game.
Mainly because nobody else will due to him being a cranky old bastard

He mentions me in any game he commentates on when United go 3 goals up
Not mentioned it much this season

[garyspain]

treble99 wrote:

when he died it all went to auction in one go For the first and only time in their lives the 3 Chelsea lunatics all made peace and carved it up. That what happens when you sell it all in one go Since then one of them had to sell up due to "circumstances beyond his control" and so it got redistributed again via Sportingold

Fabulous collection. I flew over for the auction and managed to get the only Chelsea I needed v a team from the island of Ireland - Linfield 1935.

It was by no means cheap but on its own I'd never have had a chance.

I agree it was the wrong way to sell them but it suited people who only wanted 1 or 2 programmes.

[treble99]

In fairness there is no right way to sell things

Only the collector himself knows the exact correct way on how to value and sell his items to get the most
Unfortunately he(we) are either dead or have these things taken out of our hands

[garyspain]

True it is difficult.

I think for a single club that is in itself well collected then spreading it over 2-3 auctions a few months apart would ensure a much greater return.

A club that is not as well collected could be disposed of in one lot as most of the demand would come from collectors of opposing clubs.

[markb9060]

treble99 wrote:

i haven't seen the show so i didn't know Was it the 3 goal thing? I have always said i can't relax until United are 3 goals up We talk about it all the time when we travel to away games For my sins i take him to every game. Mainly because nobody else will due to him being a cranky old bastard He mentions me in any game he commentates on when United go 3 goals up Not mentioned it much this season

Evidently you gave him a glass of red wine after the game which he accidently smashed on the table and there was an hilarious photo of the resulting carnage all over the posh table cloth !

[treble99]

actually no

I always have a glass of red for him and a glass of white for Stewart Gardner
Also Paddy likes cheese and cookies and Stewart likes cookies

He always gets what i called Paddy'd to death
All the pisspotes that have paid £499.00 plus VAt come into that lounge after the game and one brought him over (another) glass of red
He put it down and then somebody Paddy'd him for a photo
As he was standing up and bollocking me for getting a table in the middle of the room,at the same time he knocked over the second glass of wine.
That gave the crabby old bastard a reason to bollock me more and when the guy who bought it him saw it as an excuse to sit down he bollocked me again

With his attitude i should invite him on this forum