New footballprogrammes.com offers list

[footballprogrammes.com]

A new auction list has been posted on the www.footballprogrammes.com website. You can view it at http://www.footballprogrammes.com/newsite/auction.htm alternatively it is listed below. Minimum bid is £10 per item number unless stated. Items marked with an asterisk * means bids under £10 will be consideded for these items. CLOSING DATE FOR OFFERS 3rd January 2012


1 Aberdeen v Huddersfield (Friendly) 49/50 ph £50
2 Alloa v St Johnstone ('B' Div Supplementary Cup) 47/8 sl cr £25
3 Altrincham v Ellesmere Port Town (Ches Lge) 50/1 sl cr, tiny piece missing back page
4 Arsenal v West Ham (LCC Cup Final) 54/5 sl cr £20
5 Arsenal v Enfield (LCC) 62/3 card v sl cr
6 Arsenal Res v Mansfield (Comb) 64/5 s/s sof, neat fold
7 Arsenal v Charlton (SJFC Replay) 65/6 s/s sof, neat fold
8 Aston Villa v Portsmouth 48/9 - Pompey Championship season! £25
9 Bacup Borough v Fleetwood (Lancs Comb) 47/8 v sl cr £15
10 Bangor v New Brighton (Lancs Comb) 47/8 sl cr £20
11 Barnsley v Leicester 46/7 sl cr £20
12 Barnsley: Reds v Blues 13.08.49 s/s sof
13 Barnsley Res v Leeds (CL) 63/4 cr *
14 Barry Town v Weymouth (SLC) 51/2 sl cr
15 Barrow v Preston (Lancs Cup S/F) 54/5 £20
16 Barrow v Gainsborough (NPL) 72/3 - Barrow's first season as a non-league club
17 Blackburn v Barnsley 48/9 sl rs £25
18 Blackpool v Middlesbrough (16.03) 45/6 £40
19 Blackpool v Bolton 50/1 v sl cr
20 Bohemians Dublin v Celtic (Fr) 51/2 £50
21 Bolton v Arsenal 52/3 - Arsenal Championship season! £35
22 Bolton v Millwall (FAC) 54/5 £15
23 Bolton: 'Let's Talk About booklet' 1948 Series 1 No 8 £30
24 Bournemouth v Aldershot 48/9 £30
25 Bournemouth: Reds v Whites 12.08.50 s/s v sl cr £40
26 Bournemouth v Walsall 51/2 v sl cr
27 Bournemouth v Northampton 52/3 v sl cr
28 Bournemouth v Ipswich 53/4 £15
29 Bournemouth v Brighton 54/5 £15
30 Bournemouth v Swindon 54/5 v sl cr
31 Bradford City v Crewe 47/8 £35
32 Bradford City v Barrow 48/9 £30
33 Bradford PA v Crewe 51/2 v sl cr £15
34 Brighton v Ipswich 48/9 £30
35 Brighton v Watford 49/50 £30
36 Brighton v Bristol C 51/2 £20
37 Brighton v Watford 52/3 v sl cr
38 Bristol City v Watford 47/8 £35
39 Bristol City v Nottingham Forest 49/50 £30
40 Bristol City v Millwall 50/1 £25
41 Bristol City v Norwich 51/2 £20
42 Bristol City v Bristol Rovers 52/3 no staple
43 Bristol City v East Fife (Fr) 53/4 £15
44 Bristol City v Exeter 54/5 £15
45 Bristol City v Norwich 54/5 £15
46 Burnley v Portsmouth 47/8 v sl cr £25
47 Burnley v Sunderland 49/50 £25
48 Burscough v Crewe (FAC) 59/60
49 Bury v Coventry 46/7 sl cr £20
50 Cardiff v Torquay 46/7 neat fold £25
51 Cardiff v Bristol City (James Howell Cup) 48/9 sl cr £30
52 Cardiff v Blackpool (Fr) 51/2 v sl cr £15
53 Carlisle v Gateshead 51/2 £15
54 Carlisle v Workington (Cumb Championship) 58/9 v sl cr
55 Carshalton v Maidstone (CL) 54/5
56 Chelsea v Brighton (War League 05.12) 42/3 neat fold £35
57 Chester v Stoke (FAC) 46/7 v sl cr £25
58 Chesterfield v Millwall 47/8 sl cr £30
59 Chippenham Town: Probables v Possibles 16.08.52 sl cr
60 Colchester v Swindon 52/3 £15
61 Coleraine v Derry City (North West Senior Cup Final) 1965 sl cr *
62 Crewe v Chester 46/7 v sl cr £25
63 Crewe v Darlington 47/8 v sl cr £20
64 Crewe v Billingham Synthonia (FAC) 48/9 £30
65 Crewe v Sunderland (FAC) 48/9 £30
66 Crewe v Halifax 51/2 £15
67 Crewe v Wrexham 51/2 £15
68 Crewe v Stockport 52/3 £15
69 Crewe v Barnsley 53/4 v sl cr
70 Crewe v Carlisle 54/5
71 Crystal Palace v Exeter 48/9 sl cr £20
72 Crystal Palace v Bristol City 54/5 v sl cr
73 Deal Town v Folkestone (KL) 52/3 v sl cr
74 Derby v Everton 48/9 v sl cr
75 Derby v Northampton (FAC) 49/50 £25
76 Derby v Aston Villa 51/2
77 Derby v Chelsea (FAC) 52/3 £15
78 Didcot Town v Arsenal (Met League) 62/3 sl cr £15
79 Doncaster v Southport 46/7 £30
80 Doncaster v Rotherham 51/2 v sl cr
81 Doncaster v Hearts (Fr) 53/4 sl cr
82 Doncaster v Newcastle (Fr) 54/5
83 Doncaster v West Ham 54/5
84 Dover v Snowdown (KL) 54/5
85 Euro 84 France: Denmark Media Guide 36 pages A5 £15
86 Everton v Bolton (War Cup 06.01) 44/5 s/s sl cr £30
87 Everton v Huddersfield 50/1 v sl cr £15
88 Exeter Res v Dartford (SL) 50/1 s/s v sl cr
89 FA Ireland Cup Final 1970: Bohemians v Sligo v sl cr
90 Folkestone v Crewe (Fr) 68/9 *
91 Gateshead v Hartlepool 50/1 £30
92 Gillingham v Rochdale (FAC) 47/8 £35
93 Gillingham v Bristol Rovers 51/2 £15
94 Gillingham v Aldershot 52/3 £15
95 Gillingham v Aldershot 53/4 £15
96 Gillingham v Brighton 54/5 £15
97 Gillingham v Crystal Palace 55/6
98 Goole v Scunthorpe (ML) 52/3
99 Grimsby v Everton (FAC) 47/8 sl cr £25
100 Grimsby v Wolves (FAC) 54/5 v sl cr £15
101 Hartlepool v Crewe 53/4 sl cr
102 Hearts v St Mirren ('A' Div) 50/1 £20
103 Hibernian v East Fife ('A' Div) 49/50 v sl cr £25
104 Huddersfield v Everton 46/7 sl cr £25
105 Huddersfield v Burnley 49/50 sl cr £15
106 Huddersfield v Wolves 50/1 v sl cr £15
107 Ipswich v Spennymoor (FAC 2nd Round) - Pre-league Ipswich! 36/7 staples show early signs of rust £125
108 Ipswich Town: Official Handbook 1937/8 - first ever handbook, staples show early signs of rust £100
109 Ipswich v Orient 47/8 v sl cr £30
110 Ipswich v Shrewsbury 51/2 £20
111 Ipswich v Gillingham 55/6 incl many newspaper cuttings
112 Ilford v Clapton (IL) 53/4
113 Ilford v Dulwich (IL) 53/4
114 Kidderminster v All Star XI (Fr) 52/3
115 King's Lynn v Gorleston (ECL) 50/1
116 Kings's Lynn v Clacton (ECL Cup S/F) 53/4
117 Kingstonian v Wimbledon (IL) 51/2 £15
118 Leeds v Bury 49/50 £30
119 Leeds v Chelsea (FAC) 51/2 v sl cr £20
120 Leicester v Preston (FAC) 53/4
121 Leytonstone v Oxford City (IL) 48/9 neat sl fld
122 Lincoln v Crewe 49/50 v sl cr £20
123 Liverpool v Crewe (War Cup 12.02) 43/4 s/s sl cr, neat sof £30
124 Liverpool v Burnley 52/3 v sl cr
125 Luton v Fulham (War League 29.0 42/3 v sl cr £40
126 Luton v Leicester 53/4
127 Maidstone v Cambridge University (Fr) 49/50 sl cr
128 Maidstone Res v Epsom (CL) 51/2
129 Manchester City v Derby 51/2
130 Manchester City v Spurs (RARE midweek League prog) 53/4 sl cr £60
131 Manchester Utd v Liverpool 51/2 £40
132 Manchester Utd: Salford v Manchester (Lancs School Final) 51/2, 4 pages sl cr £25
133 Merthyr Tydfil v Haverfordwest (WC) 48/9 sl cr
134 Middlesbrough v Grimsby 46/7 £40
135 Middlesbrough v Stoke 47/8 v sl cr £30
136 Middlesbrough v Sunderland 49/50 £30
137 Middlesbrough v Fulham 54/5 £15
138 Millwall v Wolves 45/6 £30
139 Millwall Res v Birmingham (Comb) 50/1 v sl cr
140 Mossley v Bradford PA (Fr) 70/1 s/s - Bradford PA's first season as a non-league club £15
141 Newcastle v Newport 46/7 - Famous 13-0 game, Newcastle's record win! v sl cr £50
142 Newcastle v Sunderland 49/50 sl cr £20
143 Newcastle v Spurs 51/2 v sl cr £15
144 Newcastle v Derby 52/3 £15
145 Newcastle v Huddersfield 54/5 £15
146 Newport (IOW) v Watford (FAC) 56/7 £25
147 Northampton v Exeter 50/1 £20
148 Northampton Res v Plymouth (Comb) 47/8 sl mark £15
149 Northampton Res v Millwall (Comb) 49/50 £15
150 Northampton Res v Coventry (CC) 50/1 v sl cr £15
151 Northampton Res v Norwich (CC) 51/2 £15
152 Norwich v Southend 48/9 £30
153 Nottingham Forest v Chesterfield 46/7 v sl cr £30
154 Nottingham Forest v Hull 51/2
155 Nottingham Forest v Huddersfield 52/3
156 Nottingham Forest v West Ham 53/4 v sl cr £15
157 Nottingham Forest v Plymouth 54/5
158 Notts County v Torquay 47/8 neat sl fld £20
159 Oldham v Tranmere 45/6 £35
160 Poole Town v Aldershot (Fr) 56/7 £15
161 Portsmouth v Arsenal 47/8 Arsenal Championship season! £35
162 Portsmouth v Derby 48/9 Pompey Championship season! £30
163 Portsmouth v Everton 49/50 Pompey Championship season! £30
164 Portsmouth v Everton 50/1 £20
165 Portsmouth v Sunderland 51/2 v sl cr
166 Preston Res v Leeds (CL) 60/1 card v sl fld *
167 Preston: Promotion Celebration booklet 50/1 A5 32 pages £20
168 QPR v Orient 47/8 £30
169 Ramsgate v Faversham (KL) 53/4
170 Rangers v Dundee ('A' Div) 53/4 £20
171 Reading v QPR (War League 30.09) 44/5 £30
172 Rep of Ireland v England (Fr) 1946 sl cr RARE issue £250
173 Rep of Ireland v Switzerland (Fr) 1992 - 20 page Media Guide
174 Rep of Ireland v Greece (Fr) 2000 - 24 page Media Guide
175 Rhyl v Crewe (Cheshire League) 51/2 £15
176 Scunthorpe v Grimsby (ML) 49/50 'Grimsby' wof - Scunthorpe's last non-league season £40
177 Shamrock Rovers v Shelbourne (LOI Shield) 38/9 neat sl fld £100
178 Sheffield Wednesday v Sheffield United (War League 25.12) 44/5 v sl cr £35
179 Shrewsbury v Denaby (ML) 45/6 £50
180 Shrewsbury v Frickley Colliery (ML) 45/6 v sl cr £50
181 Shrewsbury v Ollerton Colliery (ML) 45/6 v sl cr £50
182 Shrewsbury v Walsall (FAC) 45/6 v sl cr £50
183 Shrewsbury v Accrington 50/1 sl cr - Shrews first season in the league £60
184 Shrewsbury Res v Brush Sports (BL) 50/1 - Shrews first season in the league £25
185 Sittingbourne v Whitstable (KL) 51/2 tiny piece missing, text unaffected
186 Southampton: Famous Football Clubs booklet 1940s, 42 pages £35
187 Southampton v Watford 54/5 £15
188 South Liverpool v Earle (Liv Comb) 48/9 v sl cr £15
189 Southport v Crewe 48/9 £30
190 Southport v Hartlepool 49/50 v sl cr £20
191 Southport v Wrexham 49/50 v sl cr £20
192 Southport v Scunthorpe 53/4 sl cr
193 Southport v Bradford City 54/5 £15
194 Stirling Albion v Rangers ('A' Div) 53/4 sl cr £20
195 Stoke v Sheffield Utd 47/8 £35
196 Stoke v Burnley 52/3 sl cr £15
197 Stoke v Radnicki (4 page Fr) 56/7
198 Stonehouse v Cheltenham (opening of new ground) 49/50 £15
199 Stowmarket v Spurs 'A' (ECL) 55/6 £15
200 Stranraer v Morton (LC) 56/7 *
201 St Albans v Wimbledon (IL) 52/3 £15
202 Sunderland v Portsmouth 48/9 v sl cr Pompey Championship season! £75
203 Sunderland v Man Utd 54/5 team changes noted inside £60
204 Swansea v Exeter 48/9 v sl cr £25
205 Swindon: Reds v Blues 14.08.48 sl cr £15
206 Tooting & Mitcham v Wimbledon (IL 13.01) 38/9 sl cr £125
207 Tooting & Mitcham v Redhill (SSC) 50/1
208 Tooting & Mitcham v Southall (AL) 52/3
209 Tottenham Res v Fulham (CC) 48/9 £30
210 Tottenham Res v Crystal Palace (CC) 53/4 v sl cr
211 Tottenham Res v Luton (Comb) 58/9 s/s v sl mark *
212 Tranmere v Hull 48/9 £30
213 Transport v Dundalk (LOI Shield) 58/9 *
214 Tring Town v Dehavilland undated mid 1950's *
215 Trowbridge v Clandown 45/6 sl cr, 3 inch tear to cover but nothing missing £15
216 Trowbridge v Westbury (FACQ) 48/9 £15
217 Trowbridge v Chippenham Town (FACQ) 49/50 £15
218 Tunbridge Wells Rangers v Gillingham (KL) 31/2 £100
219 Wales v England (War Time International 05.05) 1945 v sl cr £100
220 Walthamstow v Wimbledon (IL) 51/2 £20
221 Watford v Southend 47/8 £35
222 Watford v Bristol Rovers 48/9 £30
223 Watford v Torquay 49/50 £30
224 Watford v Reading 51/2 £15
225 West Brom v Luton 47/8 sl cr £15
226 West Brom v Man City 52/3 v sl cr
227 West Ham v Nottingham Forest 46/7 sl cr £35
228 West Ham v St Mirren (Fr) 52/3 sl cr £15
229 Whitstable Res v Folkestone (KL2) 48/9 £15
230 Whitstable Res v Tonbridge (KL2) 49/50 sl cr
231 Whitstable v Folkestone (KL1) 50/1 £15
232 Whitstable v Bowaters Lloyd (KL) 51/2 £15
233 Whitstable v Sheppey (KLC) 51/2 £15
234 Wimbledon v Tooting (SSC Final 25.05) 39/40 neat sl fld £125
235 Wimbledon v Leytonstone (IL) 51/2 sl cr £20
236 Wimbledon v Woking (IL) 52/3 £20
237 Wimbledon v Edgward (LSC) 53/4 £15
238 Wimbledon v Ilford (LSC S/F @ Dulwich) 53/4 v sl cr
239 Winsford Utd v Stalybridge Celtic (CL) 47/8 sl cr
240 Woking v Wimbledon (SSC) 53/4 £20
241 Wolverton v Briggs Sports (Spartan League) 54/5 v sl cr *
242 Wolves v West Brom 53/4 sl cr
243 Workington v Tranmere 52/3 sl cr sl mark
244 World Cup 2002: Preliminary Draw in Tokyo 1999 Programme £15
245 World Cup 2002: Preliminary Draw in Tokyo 1999 Media Guide £15
246 World Cup 2002: 2 Korean World Cup Bidding Brochures £20
247 World Cup 2002: England Media Guide - 100+ pages, spiral bound £40
248 Wycombe v Oxford City (IL) 47/8 sl cr £15
249 Yeovil v Cheltenham Utd 46/7 sl cr £20
250 York v Southport 52/3 sl cr

CLOSING DATE FOR OFFERS: 3rd January 2012

[Kickoff3pm]

Not really an OFFERS list so, more of a BEST OFFERS OVER list

[Footyfan]

Can anyone explain why the majority of the items listed justify being on an OFFERS List?

The vast majority are run of the mill games, albeit pre 1960, but they should be available as Straight sale items.

[jonnyp]

Does seem to be a lot of pricy minimum offers!

[Vintage Steve]

Does the antiquated offers system still have a place in programme collecting ? I personally don't believe that it does.The vast majority of programmes, even pre-1960 items, should be available for purchase on a straight sale basis. However, there are those that are considered rare and/or desirable, where it's very difficult to put a price on. This is where the vendor should place the items in an auction in order to acquire the going rate. Ebay of course offers this service, and also the various 'live' auctions that take place throughout the year.

The old dealer offers list doesn't give the purchaser any idea of how much the underbidder, if there was one, was willing to pay for the item. Everything is therefore stacked in the vendor's favour, and the purchaser is left to wonder if he/she could have acquired the item much cheaper. There is also the issue of not knowing the true condition of the item available on the offers list.

Just like the dealer's catalogues, I think offers lists will die out in the near future.

[footballprogrammes.com]

Kickoff3pm wrote:

Not really an OFFERS list so, more of a BEST OFFERS OVER list

What form of auction does not involve bidding above either a reserve or an existing bid then? Would your time not be better spent finishing off your new auction site rather than making frivolous remarks on other dealers’ modus operandi

Comments from collectors are always interesting. Whilst I accept the ebay form of bidding is very popular the ‘sealed bid’ format still has its place in the hobby and as long as demand continues I will sell in both formats. In one way ‘sealed bids’ can actually keep prices down as there can be no retaliatory bids and the bidder can consider what they are happy to pay rather than react hastily with minutes to go on ebay.

Footyfan I respect your opinion and if you really think that the items are ‘run of the mill’ then that’s fair enough. Personally I don’t agree.

Vintage Steve: again thanks for your comments but I believe there is a gap in the market between the single item auction house lot and a straight sale 1940s/early 50s rare/desirable item – that can be fufilled by an offers list. As for condition, I would hope my 25+ experience in the business and top rated ebay status would go in my favour. If not then I always offer full refund on any item for any customer. You think the vast majority of pre 1960 items should be on straight sale and I agree – well under 5% of my pre 1960 stock goes on offer the rest is straight sale. Catalogue numbers have fallen dramatically since the internet but personally speaking mine have now levelled out and it is still financially viable to produce one. There is still a number of people who refuse to embrace the web and as other dealers curtail their catalogue production it gives those of us left a bigger slice of what’s left of the pie!

[Kickoff3pm]

footballprogrammes.com wrote:

Kickoff3pm wrote: Not really an OFFERS list so, more of a BEST OFFERS OVER list What form of auction does not involve bidding above either a reserve or an existing bid then? Would your time not be better spent finishing off your new auction site rather than making frivolous remarks on other dealers’ modus operandi Comments from collectors are always interesting. Whilst I accept the ebay form of bidding is very popular the ‘sealed bid’ format still has its place in the hobby and as long as demand continues I will sell in both formats. In one way ‘sealed bids’ can actually keep prices down as there can be no retaliatory bids and the bidder can consider what they are happy to pay rather than react hastily with minutes to go on ebay. Footyfan I respect your opinion and if you really think that the items are ‘run of the mill’ then that’s fair enough. Personally I don’t agree. Vintage Steve: again thanks for your comments but I believe there is a gap in the market between the single item auction house lot and a straight sale 1940s/early 50s rare/desirable item – that can be fufilled by an offers list. As for condition, I would hope my 25+ experience in the business and top rated ebay status would go in my favour. If not then I always offer full refund on any item for any customer. You think the vast majority of pre 1960 items should be on straight sale and I agree – well under 5% of my pre 1960 stock goes on offer the rest is straight sale. Catalogue numbers have fallen dramatically since the internet but personally speaking mine have now levelled out and it is still financially viable to produce one. There is still a number of people who refuse to embrace the web and as other dealers curtail their catalogue production it gives those of us left a bigger slice of what’s left of the pie!

Sorry chap, didn't really mean to push your buttons, I was speaking as a collector. Personally I'm like the other poster, I don't see the point of offers lists.

I know we had one up but anyone who bothered to offer knows the were good deals to be had with that it wasn't so much us not knowing the values and fishing for hungry fish.

Apologies if I offended, I only really post on here as a collector, it is a hard line to hold at times both with my comments and the spam.

[Footyfan]

"Comments from collectors are always interesting. Whilst I accept the ebay form of bidding is very popular the ‘sealed bid’ format still has its place in the hobby and as long as demand continues I will sell in both formats. In one way ‘sealed bids’ can actually keep prices down as there can be no retaliatory bids and the bidder can consider what they are happy to pay rather than react hastily with minutes to go on ebay."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I agree that 'sealed bids' may well still have a place in our hobby for specific items . However, it would only be with no minimum bid in place, that way an item would find its true value, which is "what someone is prepared to pay for it". I believe most serious collectors have a good understanding of what is and is not rare/harder find in their particular sphere. Whereas most dealers, unless they are 1 club specialists, can only speculate and set a price they hope to achieve.

Would you be prepared to tell the forum just how many bids your Offers List actually attracts, including those items that do not get any bids at all? This is the only way to find out if Offers List still have a role to play in our hobby.

Too many 'dealers' have not caught on that the internet has changed our hobby dramatically, not least the fact that it is now so much easier to shop around and that prices have fallen significantly. One 'dealer' who has a regular auction currently has 25000+ unsold items on EBay but is still asking OTT prices for post 1970 run-of-the-mill items.

[Eddie Reeve]

I have to say that I have always found Dave Allen's prices to be expensive and consequently have not bought much from him over the years.

However, as far as I am concerned he is perfectly entitled to ask for minimum bids if he wishes to. Why should he sell a pre-war programme for £1 just because that is the only bid he receives?

I'm sure a lot of the programmes in the offers list will not sell but that doesn't mean that if he keeps hold of them that he won't be able to obtain the price he wants in a year or two.

As I said I am not really a customer of his but over the last 25 years many dealers have come and gone so I guess he must be doing something right

[footballprogrammes.com]

[![/quote]Sorry chap, didn't really mean to push your buttons, I was speaking as a collector. Personally I'm like the other poster, I don't see the point of offers lists.

I know we had one up but anyone who bothered to offer knows the were good deals to be had with that it wasn't so much us not knowing the values and fishing for hungry fish.

Apologies if I offended, I only really post on here as a collector.[/quote]

What a poor kop out!!! You continually refer to yourself(s) sic in plural, we this we that blah, blah, blah as though there is a whole team of you working tirelessly away in the football memorabila business! You have said previously on this forum that you run 60/80 websites and are a major player in the football business. Now, having had a cheap pop at a bona fida trader you want to hide under ‘well I am only a collector….’ banner! lol.

Interesting comments again.

Footyfan: We typically have 50 – 70 unsolds from each auction which are then added a few months later to the catalogue/website. Straight sale at the minimum bid price. The ‘no minimum’ you suggest is unworkable as I may buy mid 1950s in at £10 each but cannot risk selling them at £1 - £5 each – financial suicide! If I was to buy your collection of say 1946 – 1956 I think you may want more than the £1 each I told you that is what I would be starting bids at and justifiably so. As regard my ebay competitor, in contrast to kickoff3pm, I think it not appropriate to comment on how others run their operation unless of course there is a gross misconduct incident. In this case there clearly isn’t.

Eddie Reeve: Stuart, you make some good points and basically answered most of footyfans queries. I can remember buying some early 1920’s Brentford homes from you at your parents house 20 odd years ago and you didn’t let them go cheap back then yourself! lol. Seriously though, my prices maybe towards the top bracket for high quality items in excellent condition but for more modern issues or items in less than perfect condition they compare favourably with most. I simply wouldn’t be able to maintain a consistent 500 transaction+ monthly sales record on ebay if they were anything but competitive. By the way, having watched him at Denbigh Road on Tuesday nights as a school kid, I guess I am one of very few forum readers who know to whom your forum ID refers!!!

[Kickoff3pm]

footballprogrammes.com wrote:

[!

Sorry chap, didn't really mean to push your buttons, I was speaking as a collector. Personally I'm like the other poster, I don't see the point of offers lists.

I know we had one up but anyone who bothered to offer knows the were good deals to be had with that it wasn't so much us not knowing the values and fishing for hungry fish.

Apologies if I offended, I only really post on here as a collector.[/quote]

What a poor kop out!!! You continually refer to yourself(s) sic in plural, we this we that blah, blah, blah as though there is a whole team of you working tirelessly away in the football memorabila business! You have said previously on this forum that you run 60/80 websites and are a major player in the football business. Now, having had a cheap pop at a bona fida trader you want to hide under ‘well I am only a collector….’ banner! lol.


[/quote]

It was an attempt at an apology nothing more, perhaps not a good one I am sorry.

I said I was responding as a collector and that's how I use this forum mostly, you seem to think you know my intentions better then I but I had no bad feelings towards you or your company. I seldom look at the names of posters, so I assure you it wasn't a dig at your company or the way it does business.

Fact is, if you are going to use forums you should understand what they are first. As forum, and as a member of this forum I feel I am free to comment of postings offered up in the forum. I merely said it wasn't so much an offers list but an offers over list.

If you intended it as a notice (advert) not needing any response then perhaps you should have contacted Craig and paid a fee for that. I'm sure it would help his costs and for you I'm sure that would be only a petty cash payment.

Why would I not say "we" when referring to our... and to quot you.."bona fida" company - with business bank account and charges to prove it. And yes the is more then one person in this company. Please do not attempt to defame our good name which we have built-up over many years and will protect it by law if we have to. So don't go there.

Personally I've never said I currently run 80 websites (I think someone on here said they have 180 sites but it wasn't me). I own some and manage others for payment and for free. But I don't think it comes to that many yet. Not all are football, mostly not in fact. But it's not the size that matter is it ?

Don't know what you mean by "major player in the football business" I don't think I can spit further Alcatoss at Wigan that's a fact. But anyway I'm a bit grown-up for all that my dads bigger then your dad stuff and I don't intend comparing willies either, I'm sure you are a much bigger player in football and business then anyone I know or my ancestors might ever have known so lets leave it at that.

Don't know what else I can say except I am sorry I upset you.... except perhaps in future stick on your happy hat when reading my posts and use a notebook perhaps. Now don't take what this idiot says (meaning I, me, we and to be precise not you or your company, friends or neighbour's dog, cat or hamster) as gospel.............. perhaps

[footballprogrammes.com]

You didn't upset me - I am too hard skinned and long in the tooth for that! I have no hard feelings towards you. In fact, I don't even know your name? Talking of which I read your thread re a new online football auction and had a quick look. I am always slightly suspicious of a business that does not have a contact name - maybe an idea to add that rather than go with the mysterious 'faceless wonder' feel?

I wish you good luck with it and will take your future posts with a pinch of salt.

[Tynie Topics]

Vintage Steve wrote:

Does the antiquated offers system still have a place in programme collecting ?

I don't think it does and personally, I have perhaps bought one item via an offers list in the last 5 years or longer. In my opinion they are there to keep prices artificially high, they are from a different era when - as ebay has proven - some programmes were not as rare or desirable as some dealers would have had you believe and prices have corrected accordingly.

With offers, if you have an "offers over" price of £20, and it attracts only one offer of £50, it sells for £50. That in my eyes is wrong and as I touched on earlier, keeps prices artificially high.

They will eventually die out in favour of eBay or Auctions, where people can see what the highest bid currently is and choose to bid higher or not. If the reserve price is too high, nobody will bid at all. That's the way it should be.
_________________
https://www.flickr.com/photos/footballprogrammes/albums

[Kickoff3pm]

footballprogrammes.com wrote:

You didn't upset me - I am too hard skinned and long in the tooth for that! I have no hard feelings towards you. In fact, I don't even know your name? Talking of which I read your thread re a new online football auction and had a quick look. I am always slightly suspicious of a business that does not have a contact name - maybe an idea to add that rather than go with the mysterious 'faceless wonder' feel? I wish you good luck with it and will take your future posts with a pinch of salt.

Looks like the is no hard feeling doesn't it "I am always slightly suspicious of a business that does not have a contact name "

Like yours you mean ? come on, less of the cheap shots please. It's a work in progress but I've just checked both sites. We have an address and contact details. I don't see your personal details on your site but you do give a PO and mobil number it seems.

"faceless wonder" ? for fucks sake grow up.

Taken with a salt I hope I large one may be needed but if you intended to piss me off you did a good job.

[footballprogrammes.com]

Wow where’s that come from!

At the end of the day mate I couldn’t care less if you have a contact name or not. You did ask for comments and I gave my honest assessment that a name to a site gives it both a personal touch and a reassurance.

I think if you look closely the telephone number on both my contacts page and order form IS a landline and if you click ‘about us’ it tells you all about me (David Allen). Clicking the ebay link also gives my details as per ebay policy. Thanks for pointing out that my name is missing from the contacts page I will get that rectified.

[Posh1959]

PM sent to David Allen re your last offers list, regards Clive

[MisterGas]

Kickoff3pm wrote:

footballprogrammes.com wrote: [! Sorry chap, didn't really mean to push your buttons, I was speaking as a collector. Personally I'm like the other poster, I don't see the point of offers lists. I know we had one up but anyone who bothered to offer knows the were good deals to be had with that it wasn't so much us not knowing the values and fishing for hungry fish. Apologies if I offended, I only really post on here as a collector.

What a poor kop out!!! You continually refer to yourself(s) sic in plural, we this we that blah, blah, blah as though there is a whole team of you working tirelessly away in the football memorabila business! You have said previously on this forum that you run 60/80 websites and are a major player in the football business. Now, having had a cheap pop at a bona fida trader you want to hide under ‘well I am only a collector….’ banner! lol.


[/quote]

It was an attempt at an apology nothing more, perhaps not a good one I am sorry.

I said I was responding as a collector and that's how I use this forum mostly, you seem to think you know my intentions better then I but I had no bad feelings towards you or your company. I seldom look at the names of posters, so I assure you it wasn't a dig at your company or the way it does business.

Fact is, if you are going to use forums you should understand what they are first. As forum, and as a member of this forum I feel I am free to comment of postings offered up in the forum. I merely said it wasn't so much an offers list but an offers over list.

If you intended it as a notice (advert) not needing any response then perhaps you should have contacted Craig and paid a fee for that. I'm sure it would help his costs and for you I'm sure that would be only a petty cash payment.

Why would I not say "we" when referring to our... and to quot you.."bona fida" company - with business bank account and charges to prove it. And yes the is more then one person in this company. Please do not attempt to defame our good name which we have built-up over many years and will protect it by law if we have to. So don't go there.

Personally I've never said I currently run 80 websites (I think someone on here said they have 180 sites but it wasn't me). I own some and manage others for payment and for free. But I don't think it comes to that many yet. Not all are football, mostly not in fact. But it's not the size that matter is it ?

Don't know what you mean by "major player in the football business" I don't think I can spit further Alcatoss at Wigan that's a fact. But anyway I'm a bit grown-up for all that my dads bigger then your dad stuff and I don't intend comparing willies either, I'm sure you are a much bigger player in football and business then anyone I know or my ancestors might ever have known so lets leave it at that.

Don't know what else I can say except I am sorry I upset you.... except perhaps in future stick on your happy hat when reading my posts and use a notebook perhaps. Now don't take what this idiot says (meaning I, me, we and to be precise not you or your company, friends or neighbour's dog, cat or hamster) as gospel.............. perhaps [/quote]

BLOODY SHAME

[goonerboy]

As with all vehicles of selling in our hobby the reality comes with how successful it is. Any business that does not get turnover dies. The offers lists have certainly become fewer over the last few years. When I started collecting seriously about 10 years ago everybody was churning out offers lists. Now only a handful exist. In reality the explosion of football auction houses and eBay has transferred the offers business.

I don't use them often but as with all avenues of selling there are occassionally items on offers lists that I have not seen before and I make offers. But always with the principle of offering the balance between what I think its worth and what I can afford. Of course we all want to buy items as cheap as possible but when the rarer items crop up then its about how much do I want that item at this time.

Ultimately I actually don't care about the business model of any dealer. If I like their stock, prices and services I will use them and if not then I won't. Yes it is very frustrating when I see an item that I need that is in my opinion over priced and I can't afford to buy/bid or just won't out of principle. But then that dealer/seller owes me no favours. He/she is not in the business to help me but to earn his/her living. If their business model is out of kilter with the rest of the hobby they will suffer more than me and if they have a good client base and good turnover then they survive whether or not they get a few quid out of me.

So live and let live. at the end of the day it is a hobby to me and its not really life and death if I never complete my collection. If it is important but overpriced why not see if the dealer is open to some negotiation. The worst is they can say no.

[footballprogrammes.com]

Yes your average collector with a few spares to sell now uses ebay rather than PM offers and rightly so. You are probably right that offers lists will eventually die out as well. However the few that do still produce them include the professional dealers - Sports Programmes, John Dee, Brentside, Dick Rattray etc. That I think show there life in the old dog yet. How long it lasts? Time will tell…

I think you submitted an superb post goonerboy. Excellent points that sum up the feelings of a lot of collectors and dealers too for that matter. In my opinion its what this forum should be about exchanging views, tips a platform for dealer/collector dialogue. I'm no prude but it was a shame to see bad language and vulgar innuendo on this thread, and some others in the past too for that matter. Its a football programme forum - we would all love to see more youngsters get involved and that sort of language won't.

[sharrowblade]

footballprogrammes.com wrote:

I think you submitted an superb post goonerboy.

I'll second that!
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