Is this ethical

[gatfb]

Bid online today at a well know auction.

I bid £400 on a particular lot. The gavel distinctly came down and the auctioneer clearly said sold at my bid price of £400 and it showed sold on my computer screen but, then auctioneer said he had made a mistake and there was another internet bidder. Lot was sold at next bid (didn't want to place another bid as was not happy).

Anyway, is this ethical?

[Kickoff3pm]

gatfb wrote:

Bid online today at a well know auction. I bid £400 on a particular lot. The gavel distinctly came down and the auctioneer clearly said sold at my bid price of £400 and it showed sold on my computer screen but, then auctioneer said he had made a mistake and there was another internet bidder. Lot was sold at next bid (didn't want to place another bid as was not happy). Anyway, is this ethical?

They will have terms and conditions, you should find them.

But it reminds me of my last experiance at another very well known memorabilia auction house. I sat their playing a game call - spot the wall bidders. The was one by the door and one in the far corner. Some of these people make up the rules as the go. Anyone see that episode of house under the hammer ? that was a right laugh too.

[gatfb]

Did email them before posting here to ask the question. Will let you know if I recieve a reply.

[ndnewsham]

As the earlier poster says--it all depends on the T's and C's
However in my previous life as a car auctioneer, when the gavel went down, bang that is a contract of sale.
However with it being an auctioneer error and that it was stated on the computer screen, the item should have been sold to you imo with an apology to the other bidder but that would have been his problem

[martino]

In my experience there is no consistent approach to this problem; somtimes they re-open the bidding after the gavel goes down and sometimes they say tough luck.

Internet bidding has added to the problem and I know that some auctioneers do not wait long enough for all internet bids before closing the sale. Sportingold is a case in point where they had so many lots (2200) last week, the auctioneer was racing along to complete the auction before everyone put their pyjamas on. I am sure he must have missed some internet bids in the race to the finish.

[Kickoff3pm]

martino wrote:

In my experience there is no consistent approach to this problem; somtimes they re-open the bidding after the gavel goes down and sometimes they say tough luck. Internet bidding has added to the problem and I know that some auctioneers do not wait long enough for all internet bids before closing the sale. Sportingold is a case in point where they had so many lots (2200) last week, the auctioneer was racing along to complete the auction before everyone put their pyjamas on. I am sure he must have missed some internet bids in the race to the finish.

Thats the big difference in most this off+online auction, internet auction are not in the strickest sense auctions. Thats because the is that time limit, in traditional auction the bidding stops at the highest bidder full stop. If the is a limit to the time allowed to bid it thats the problem these place hit.

But if the hammer comes down that should be the final price imo.

[martino]

quote - But if the hammer comes down that should be the final price imo.[/quote]

Agreed. At one auction the hammer went down and I won a lot whilst a telephone bidder was thinking about it. The auctioneer asked I would be happy if he reopened the bidding. I said no, he accepted it and moved on to the next lot.

[treble99]

if the hammer goes down then that is the end of it but by a fluke i was watching this auction live online when this lot was sold.
as the hammer went down the internet bid came in.
the hammer was coming down but had it come down?
it was a bit like did he beat the offiside trap or was he in line.
the auctioneer was clearly heard to announce "on the hammer" which means the lot is still open.
you did not bid which is your perogative and therefore fair enough.

if the auctioneer had insisted on you having it we would now have a different thread which would go along the lines of "i bid as fast as i could and my bid showed on the computer just as the hammer came down and i lost it"
do you think thats fair!!

my feelings are that it is a pisser and you are clearly upset and therefore did not bid any more but honestly there was someone who was prepared to bid more and did bid more.
possibly restricted by computer technology but an honest and honourable bid and although you lost in difficult circumstances there is always a loser when two people lock horns.
you could have bid another £300 and still been outbid.
you chose not to go any higher for your understandable reasons but you were beaten by a higher and honest bid not a wall bid

[ToffeeDan]

I've got some poor experiences in auction rooms to relay:

2 to mention - neither to do with memorabilia

My item sold then the buyer retracts - ultimately sold for a lot less a few years later (we're talking several thousand here)

The other one I was REALLY fuming as I had bid & won/lost on a few items. When I went to pay they INSISTED I had bid for something & it was on the bill/on the record - the item concerned was about £10 - and since I had NOT bid for it I was still pretty pissed off - so I ended up buying an African piece of carved wood which kind of looks ok but I know I had no interest in the item nor had I raised my paddle to bid (they should have recognised my style was to be interested & obviously agree at the termination of a sale by announcing my paddle number). Cowboys.

I won't even mention Cato Crane of Liverpool's thieving tactics (one of which was to sell items for LESS than the charges levied & well below a reasonable price for the said lots) - if ANYONE ever thinks of selling anything through them I strongly urge them to contact me first BEFORE they get involved with this shower of shysters.

[gatfb]

Here is there response


I know this is disappointing but I'm afraid it does happen at auction from time to time, and auctioneers are allowed to conduct matters in this way after the fall of a hammer in the case of an error or a dispute, which was the case here.

Many apologies, you were very unlucky and the chances of it happening to you again here or at any other auction is remote.

Best Regards
Graham Budd

[Museum de Latique]

The real "problem" is the way people are used to bidding on eBay.

I do it myself but use a snipe bidder program - Leave it to the last possible second to bid.

Its OK for computer time limited auctions but the RW of auction houses the gavel should mean the end of it.

There was one Auction house I bid at for a while via saleroom.com and if you waited till just after the gavel sounded and bid you where always given as the winning bidder.

They still havent realised it is happening