A postcard sent in 1909 on ebay-take a look £620 so far!

[manchesterunitedman1]

Now it is not very very often i am in any state of but check out this auction on ebay 290540745703.

It states a postcard from 1909 and shows a nice scene of the Crystal Palace grounds with a match being played and an inset picture of the FA Cup also on the card. The card has been postally used and is dated 2 days after the 1909 Final took place between Bristol City and Manchester United on the 24th April 1909.

The seller clearly states all of those things, but my question is the actual link to the 1909 Cup Final or any particular Final is non existent, the postcard was of a generic type, could have been printed a year or more ago, simply showing the grounds where the Cup Final is played. Only today can an image be taken from an event and be printed with hours and offered for sale-this is a clear case of someone with red mist or the seller has gone mad pushing[or both] up a nothing item to look like something!

Anyway a curiosity and if it was being offered for a few pounds then i would say it is an unusual item but really as it has no printed words associating it with this particular final other than it was posted 2 days after the event and the poster said he could not afford the beer in London.

Just stumbled across it again this morning to see it is one of those dreaded private bidder auctions which to me is a license to do whatever you want and should be banned, however the price has now shot up to just under £700! with 17 bidders-ooh it is very cold and looks like it is a SHILLY day today.
Someone somewhere is being roped in for sure and thinks they are bidding on an item that is associated with the 1909 Final, the seller has masses of feedback over 25,000-he must be rolling in the aisles to have found someone to get excited about a card worth at best £30-40 quid.

The bidding is also crazy as it has been around £175 for days and then has shot up to over £600 yesterday and the end of the auction is still a fair way away as well!. Stinks to high heaven.

The seller has actually said nothing wrong and stated all the facts as they are but is sowing seeds that there is a connection or certainly letting others consider that possibility that it has something to do with the game but in reality it has not!.

[foxes1]

Do you think that it could have been posted in 1909 and only just arrived in the post last week

[1980Cossie]

I noticed this the other day. At the 1909 Final United and Bristol City both played in white shorts and this clearly shows only one team in white shorts with dark shirts playing a team in black or blue shorts with white shirts, the combination of kits only fits for the 1904 Cup Final Man City v Bolton.
Source: historicalkits website http://www.historicalkits.co.u.....-1909.html
*Also i've just copy and pasted the card and made it much larger, the date April 25th & over the otherside April 26th and a time of 2.15pm appears but the card does not have 1909 wrote on it anywhere, at least, i can't see it wrote on there anyway..

[sydenham hill]

I too have been watching this item with amazement, the match featured looks like a cup final, but it has to be after 1904, because the flower pot stand in the background was built in 1905, so in my opinion, it is the 1907 cup final ,where Everton played Sheffield Wednesday, one team definetely looks like Everton and the other could be Sheff Wed, in light blue stripes and dark shorts, but apart from the message on the card, it has no connection with the 1909 cup final at all

[mark01]

fair shout sydenham hill - can I have my guess, England v Scotland 1905.

By the way sydenham, I dont know if you have it but theres a great book called 'To the Palace for the Cup' by Ian Bevan, Stuart Hibberd and Michael Gilbert - gives the history of the ground and all major games played there.

regards

[sydenham hill]

Hi Mark01, Scotland that day wore primrose yellow and pink shirts, so i still think its the 1907 cup final, although i could be wrong, i`ve tried blowing up the picture, but it looks worse, when you zoom in, regarding the book `to the palace for the cup, most of my collection is featured in the book, it`s a really interesting book, i never realised how much football was played there all the best

[mark01]

take a look at pages 106/7

[mark01]

Sydenham - I cant read the postcard at all, but cossie has indicated a date of 25/26 April as being posted. This is important, 1909 final was played on 26 April, and ties in nicely, was probably sent on the day before the final when the sender arrived in London, seems logical.

Other finals around this time, 1905 played 15 April, 1906 played 21 April, 1907 played 20 April. So you can rule those out as no ones going to send anything a week after the game.

regards

[mark01]

Apologies 1909 final was played on 24 April (my reference book official illustrated history of the FA Cup had 26 April!).

Anyway hope you get my drift.

regards

[Dorking]

I already own this postcard - bought it a couple of years ago. Mine is in mint condition - doesn't have any writing on it, hasn't been posted. I believe it is an original from the turn of the century, I paid I think about £50 for mine.

I'd happily sell mine for £600+ !!

[ToffeeDan]

How about the 1908 Final - Wolves v Newcastle (25th April) ?

1. The picture relates to another game at the ground (the sender just bought a postcard depicting football at the ground)

2. The sender comes from Banbury way - remember the probability in that era of someone going to a Cup Final to watch Man. Utd v Barnsley (1909) would be a lot less than to watch a team from closer to his home address

[sharrowblade]

We can speculate for hours the actual match in the scene, (although by what modern miracle some forum members can determine that one of the teams were wearing blue shorts or playing in blue and white stripes, is impressive, considering it's a black & white photo)
The fact that Manchester United played in all white with a red V, (aka, Airdrie) that day seems to suggest that the scene is not from the 1909 cup final v Bristol City.

Some of you appear to be given the impression the lad from Banbury actually went to the match? How have you reached that conclusion?

The postmark is nigh on impossible to read,(Certainly for us), but it's irrelevant even if it states 1909. It's a red herring, the only information we have is that it was posted at 2.15pm on April 25/26th, and as Leslie pointed out, they didn't play cup finals on the Saturday, and print postcards on the Sunday to send out via post on the Monday, it simply doesn't ring true.

I cannot argue with anything our learned Manchester United collector has pointed out, except, the seller has stated that this postcard is a scene from the 1909 FA Cup Final.

Unfortunately, in this hobby whether you like it or not, there is always someone out to shaft somebody else......in a big way.

Perhaps I ought to dig out my old spurs photographs from the 40s & 50s, and maybe some of my early 1900's Sheffield Wednesday photo's and label them against Manchester United.

Roll up, Roll up

[RobertD]

to be fair to the seller, I can't see anywhere on the listing that states that the picture contains anything to do with the 1909 final,

it says
RARE photo POSTCARD showing Crystal Palace ground and the FA Cup.

so its a postcard that was probably purchased on the day of the 1909 final that contains a photo that is 2-3 years old.
I don't think he/she has done anything wrong.

[manchesterunitedman1]

RobertD wrote:

to be fair to the seller, I can't see anywhere on the listing that states that the picture contains anything to do with the 1909 final, it says RARE photo POSTCARD showing Crystal Palace ground and the FA Cup. so its a postcard that was probably purchased on the day of the 1909 final that contains a photo that is 2-3 years old. I don't think he/she has done anything wrong.

Gentlemen:

Please do not be so naive.

The seller has a proven track record of over 25,000 positives-we are not talking about a bedroom bandit here we are talking about a savvy dealer with a very careful and concise set of perfectly worded descriptions and then adds quite clearly that it was posted only 2 days after the 1909 Cup Final and mentions the 2 magic words "Manchester United". Now use a private lsiting and wait for some mug[s] to take the bait. What a clever guy but not good luck to him because my comments merely suggest this COULD have been how it was put together-if this was a scenario the seller is a rogue-but a smart one and has worked the system. The only benefit to the buyer is that his or her name will remain never to be disclosed, UNLESS the highest bidder was not the buyer-catch my drift and the seller maybe went one greedy bid too many-I certainly hope so, as it is still only worth a few quid!. No doubt some liberally minded person will say their view is completely different to mine-but this is why there is a forum!

[sharrowblade]

RobertD wrote:

to be fair to the seller, I can't see anywhere on the listing that states that the picture contains anything to do with the 1909 final.

Seriously! You've not read the item's main title:

1909 Cup Final & Cup Crystal Palace RARE PHOTO POSTCARD

[Ann Orack]

The Mrs is watching Cold Case, I've finished reading the ICAEW's guidance on change of 'Audit appointments' so I thought I'd just muse over this thread

The item described is a postcard, depicting indistinguishable teams playing at Crystal Palace. In addition theres an inset showing the FA Cup. ( no shit Sherlock you might say)

I'll accept the first line of the description. I have no knowledge if its a rare postcard or not but it clearly states Crystal Palace and the FA Cup

My issue is now with the subtle use of 1 word 'the'. Its actually the most commonly used word in the British English language ( including American English and Australian English languages). Proof to be provided upon request.

It actually states 'Postally used 26 April 1909 , two days after the match , MANCHESTER UNITED's first Cup Final'

I actually count beans all day and am far from a literaly scholar but surely the use of the word 'the' associates the object (the postcard) with the date of 26 April 1909 and it is further qualified by stating Manchester United first Cup final.

Was the description carefully worded to deceive - I really don't know and quite frankly don't care. Cold Case has finished and the Mrs suggests I get a life.Shes now sent me upstairs to bed without my cocoa

Sweet dreams everyone

ps. I always knew Sharrowblade was a closset Owl and if he wants to sell his collection of early 1900's Wednesday photos he knows where to come

[AYRUNITEDCOLLECTOR]

Not wanting to watch Chelsea struggle at home again, I did a few ebay searches last night, around and about this ‘lovely’ item. It is usually possible to ascertain who was involved in private transactions if the two parties subsequently leave feedback. Most private transactions can usually be unravelled and the purchasers ebay identity revealed.

As rightly stated in an earlier post this is a professional seller who runs his business well, and is often complimented on his good administration/organisation. If we assume that after the auction closed on the evening of Saturday 12th March, payment would probably be made via Paypal over the weekend, and the item would then be dispatched by this well organised seller on the Monday 14th March (by Special Delivery considering its value), thus arriving with the purchaser on Tuesday 15th March 2010.

It can be seen that the seller left feedback on 14/03/11 at 12.45 for a buyer who has a recent history of spending thousands of pounds on football memorabilia. That buyer subsequently left positive feedback for the seller at 14.02 on 15/03/11. If this is indeed the buyer ( I could not find any other likely suspects) he clearly is not an ebay novice and from the amount of money he is spending I only hope he knows what he is doing.

I have deliberately not stated (what I believe to be) the buyer’s ebay user name in this message in case in doing so I am breaking the rules of the forum. Perhaps I should send him a link to this topic/forum!!!!

[Kickoff3pm]

If people are will to pay £600 for an image of a cup final in around 1909 perhaps I'll have to get my 1905 Book Of Football out and do some scans

After reading the thread I got it out, it's got a full size image of a 1875 football ticket. If I put that on card and post it will an e bayer pay a grand for it ?

[tommy]

[quote="I have deliberately not stated (what I believe to be) the buyer’s ebay user name in this message in case in doing so I am breaking the rules of the forum. Perhaps I should send him a link to this topic/forum!!!![/quote]

It’s probably all right then to mention the buyers ebay name.