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The Good Old Days
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Tynie Topics



Joined: 26 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 2:16 pm 
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Flaming Pie wrote:
Tynie, l gave my daughter a Real Madrid kit ( kids size) signed by David Beckham for my grandson. He played in it and then that went into the wash as well ! . I think she thought it was that ink that doesn’t wash out. You are are right about the racism still being there., particularly in the Eastern European countries . I’ve been to some of those countries and away from football they seem lovely , civilised people . What goes on in their heads when they enter a football stadium? Fine midfielder wasn’t he, Robbie Earle.


Eastern and Central Europe is getting worse, witness recent events with a Rangers player and Czech teams, Hungary as well. Just two examples. Sadly this country is worsening as well after recent political events has emboldended the racists.

Robbie Earle was a fantastic midfielder, he was part of a Wimbledon team that just wasn't all long ball and could play football against the best.
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foxes1



Joined: 30 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 2:58 pm 
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Being a Leicester City fan I have seen the best of both worlds, I first started going to Filbert Street in the late 60's most games you could just turn up and pay on the gate. We were at the time one of the so called yo-yo teams one season up then one season down any time we got to Wembley we would lose, we even manged to get down into the third tier of English football for one season.
Following them now and everything has changed we won the Premier league and I have managed to see them play away in Europe at places like Madrid & Seville etc, then last season were F A cup winners for the first time and also won the community shield. I think it will also give hope to some of the clubs the same size as ours that anything is possible, although looking at the money being thrown around by some of the so called bigger clubs, us winning the league certainly gave them a bloody nose, lets hope some other clubs can do the same.
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colchestersid



Joined: 08 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 9:32 pm 
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The Japanese have a word for this - "Mono no aware"

It describes a gentle sadness for the passing of things (and also experiences). It's a little different to nostalgia and I don't think there is an exactly equivalent word in English

Things change - the experience of going to football, the physical structure and nature of the stadiums, the people around us, the players on the pitch... these changes mirror and match the sadness we feel as we move farther away from childhood and young adulthood (when every experience was new and memorable) to middle and old age where exactly the same experiences become humdrum, forgettable and routine

Behind this sits the sadness of life - probably none of us on the forum are as alive and awake as we were 30, 40, 50 years ago and we know what's coming...
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Grumpypants



Joined: 09 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:30 pm 
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Very interesting analogy Colchestersid. A lot of sense and truth behind this term, which personally, I have never come across before today.
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Tynie Topics



Joined: 26 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2021 2:34 pm 
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One of the bad things about todays game is clubs being sold to despotic foreign regimes, another one yesterday. Fit and proper test Confused
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Grumpypants



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2021 2:54 pm 
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Agree with you Tynie, but the fans still pay their money into these regimes, making them stronger. Case of catch 22 for the supporters.
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colchestersid



Joined: 08 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2021 2:59 pm 
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Tynie Topics wrote:
One of the bad things about todays game is clubs being sold to despotic foreign regimes, another one yesterday. Fit and proper test Confused


True but the Saudi's have been investing in property and infrastructure in the UK for decades. As long as they are buying up half of Mayfair from otherwise impoverished aristocrats no one cares but once they invest in football it's a scandal

I'm no fan of these regimes but this is double standards
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Tynie Topics



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2021 3:05 pm 
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colchestersid wrote:
Tynie Topics wrote:
One of the bad things about todays game is clubs being sold to despotic foreign regimes, another one yesterday. Fit and proper test Confused


True but the Saudi's have been investing in property and infrastructure in the UK for decades. As long as they are buying up half of Mayfair from otherwise impoverished aristocrats no one cares but once they invest in football it's a scandal

I'm no fan of these regimes but this is double standards


I hear what you're saying, two wrongs do not make a right but this directly affects ordinary people, a supposedly working class club now owned by the same person who orders journos to be abducted, murdered and chopped into pieces and then tries to cover it up. Yet there's many happy barcodes, I guess money talks.
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littlewiggy



Joined: 07 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2021 4:06 pm 
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Tynie Topics wrote:
One of the bad things about todays game is clubs being sold to despotic foreign regimes, another one yesterday. Fit and proper test Confused


Couldn't agree more. Yet another sportswashing regime, guilty of atrocious human rights being welcomed into the fold.

Stoning, beheading, killing & dismemberment of women, gays, blacks, foreign journalists, etc etc is fine, so long as you can buy trophies, it seems. Judging by the celebrations outside the ground.

I honestly think once Klopp leaves Liverpool, I might try my best to wean myself off the game altogether, I'm certain there's other hobbies out there. I feel done & dirty.

Get ready to hear the words ... "Newcastle have experienced a sudden growth in Sponsorship value" ... as that space on their shirt suddenly becomes worth £500m per year. FFP at its best. Blame the journos who have never once pulled Man City up on their outrageous claims, despite playing half their games to an array of empty seats, whilst ignoring the leaked emails regarding players' offshore accounts.

As for Newcastle fans saying we've got our club back, have you f*ck.
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Bokbag



Joined: 12 May 2018
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2021 6:36 pm 
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I will add a counterpoint. Newcastle are owned by the PIF and explicitly states in legally binding contract we are not owned by the Saudi royal family. If your argument is that these are de facto the same thing… then the PIF own a stake in Facebook, Twitter and Uber. So if using those services like supporting a club owned by the PIF is tacit approval, or turning a blind eye then I am sure no one on here will be using any of these other services from now on.

Further any Chelsea fans? They better get out as well right? City? We better not have anything made in China or the Philippines. Definitely not going to the next WC? Britain became rich through the slave trade, guess we are all for reparations? Not interested in hand wringing just over this or it’s hypocrisy.

This is even worse. You can choose to not buy Chinese, if you have the money. Well you can’t choose your club, and who owns them is not in our control. This is the world we live in now. It’s not what I would have ideally. But I’m not interested in finger wagging and moralising over this instance alone. I will guarantee everyone will be supporting these regimes indirectly right now.

We all have our lines. For me we are not owned directly from a member of the royal family. And the PIF can legitimately be created from Saudi natural resources. Some may snort at that. But I would encourage you to check your morals and see if you are not guilty of the same things Newcastle fans are being accused of by some.
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littlewiggy



Joined: 07 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2021 8:26 pm 
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Incredible!!

Just wow!
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Tynie Topics



Joined: 26 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2021 12:07 am 
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Bokbag wrote:
I will add a counterpoint. Newcastle are owned by the PIF and explicitly states in legally binding contract we are not owned by the Saudi royal family. If your argument is that these are de facto the same thing… then the PIF own a stake in Facebook, Twitter and Uber. So if using those services like supporting a club owned by the PIF is tacit approval, or turning a blind eye then I am sure no one on here will be using any of these other services from now on.

Further any Chelsea fans? They better get out as well right? City? We better not have anything made in China or the Philippines. Definitely not going to the next WC? Britain became rich through the slave trade, guess we are all for reparations? Not interested in hand wringing just over this or it’s hypocrisy.

This is even worse. You can choose to not buy Chinese, if you have the money. Well you can’t choose your club, and who owns them is not in our control. This is the world we live in now. It’s not what I would have ideally. But I’m not interested in finger wagging and moralising over this instance alone. I will guarantee everyone will be supporting these regimes indirectly right now.

We all have our lines. For me we are not owned directly from a member of the royal family. And the PIF can legitimately be created from Saudi natural resources. Some may snort at that. But I would encourage you to check your morals and see if you are not guilty of the same things Newcastle fans are being accused of by some.


"Eighty per cent of the funding for the deal will come from the Public Investment Fund (PIF) which is seen as separate from the state, despite the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia Mohammed bin Salman acting as chair for the body. "

Same guy that likes to see journos chopped up into pieces, amongst other human rights concerns with the regime as a whole.

I'm finding your post hard to follow as it lurches all over the place, the point I raised was concerning the so-called Fit & Proper test for new club owners. The link to the Saudi regime is clear (how can it not be?), therefore once again this test is only for show it seems, and that applies to several clubs not just Newcastle's new owners.

There's a moral vacume in the EPL.
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goonerboy



Joined: 24 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2021 12:24 am 
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colchestersid wrote:
The Japanese have a word for this - "Mono no aware"

It describes a gentle sadness for the passing of things (and also experiences). It's a little different to nostalgia and I don't think there is an exactly equivalent word in English

Things change - the experience of going to football, the physical structure and nature of the stadiums, the people around us, the players on the pitch... these changes mirror and match the sadness we feel as we move farther away from childhood and young adulthood (when every experience was new and memorable) to middle and old age where exactly the same experiences become humdrum, forgettable and routine

Behind this sits the sadness of life - probably none of us on the forum are as alive and awake as we were 30, 40, 50 years ago and we know what's coming...


You have hit the nail on the head. The problem with nostalgia is that it refers to a time when we were young and saw the world through different eyes. Nostalgia is intertwined with wishing we were young again. The world moves on of course and youngsters of today will no doubt miss things about today.

I grew up in the 70s which was epitomised by crap pitches in the winter, players attempting to hurt other players being lauded as hard men, risking getting beaten up when going to a game and poor facilities at grounds. Thats not to say today things are flawless but the shit things from the past have been made better....however there are other annoyances as kick-off times are messed up, we are all customers rather than fans, you can just go to a game etc.

However the football is without doubt better now. If you watch any 60s or 70s highlights the game is so slow but tgd game us far more athletic now . Although diving was not so prevalent it still existed in abundance. The non league game is thriving and the professional league is no longer a closed shop where clubs got re-elected through the old boys network. There is a lot more foreign money but what difference does that make ? Some clubs were always richer than others. One of the worst aspects of today is that average and young players get ridiculous salaries but sadly that is just reflective of today's society.
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littlewiggy



Joined: 07 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2021 2:22 am 
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The apologists / excusers are already in full flow & the ink on the deal isn't even dry.

What price your integrity? Two pieces of silver, me thinks.

The game as a contest is dead. Long live football.
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Bokbag



Joined: 12 May 2018
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2021 9:22 am 
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I don’t believe that my post lurches all over the place. The basic point is that they are shite, and should not be near clubs, but if this is your line, only when it comes to football, then that is the real hypocrisy. Why is football so special? We are living in a world where as a consumer you will be supporting regimes just like this every day. Be it your Chinese made goods, Russian gas or Brazilian coffee. It is deeply hypocritical to now suggest that people who don’t support these clubs get to be morally more pure than those who do.

I have never been given a figure to what percentage of a company owned by PIF makes it ok to use it? They own 5% of Twitter, 5% of Uber as well as parts of Boeing, Disney and Facebook. So presumably all of these companies are the same as Newcastle. Now how many people have given a second thought to not using these companies? So why now do people start being high and mighty because it’s a football club? Am I an apologist because I have a Twitter account? Again you need to pick a line carefully here or you will seem especially hypocritical. Again at what exact number does the PIF involvement become an issue?

And the point is as a consumer you have at least some choice, but do you want a fan to just stop supporting someone? When it is out of their control? That is is not a black and white issue (pardon the pun) and to make it so is just judgemental.

As for the fit and proper persons test. It’s capaitalism I’m afraid. Once Abrahmovic took over that was it. You will struggle to stop people now when they left the door open or you will be told your stopping competition.
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Tynie Topics



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2021 9:59 am 
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Bokbag wrote:
I don’t believe that my post lurches all over the place. The basic point is that they are shite, and should not be near clubs, but if this is your line, only when it comes to football, then that is the real hypocrisy. Why is football so special? We are living in a world where as a consumer you will be supporting regimes just like this every day. Be it your Chinese made goods, Russian gas or Brazilian coffee. It is deeply hypocritical to now suggest that people who don’t support these clubs get to be morally more pure than those who do.

I have never been given a figure to what percentage of a company owned by PIF makes it ok to use it? They own 5% of Twitter, 5% of Uber as well as parts of Boeing, Disney and Facebook. So presumably all of these companies are the same as Newcastle. Now how many people have given a second thought to not using these companies? So why now do people start being high and mighty because it’s a football club? Am I an apologist because I have a Twitter account? Again you need to pick a line carefully here or you will seem especially hypocritical. Again at what exact number does the PIF involvement become an issue?

And the point is as a consumer you have at least some choice, but do you want a fan to just stop supporting someone? When it is out of their control? That is is not a black and white issue (pardon the pun) and to make it so is just judgemental.

As for the fit and proper persons test. It’s capaitalism I’m afraid. Once Abrahmovic took over that was it. You will struggle to stop people now when they left the door open or you will be told your stopping competition.


How do you know what choices anyone makes as a consumer?

There is no hypocrisy on my part and I have been criticising this so-called "Fit & Proper" test since the day the phrase was coined, it's completely useless and the same goes for the equivalent here in Scotland.

If it allows a despotic regime to go ahead with a purchase of the football club, then what is it there for.

As for fan choice, they don't have any. Your club is your club, but the barcodes haven't been slow at licking the boots of their new owners. They don't care about who they are and what they do, only that they're stinking rich and will be able to buy a trophy or two.
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Bokbag



Joined: 12 May 2018
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2021 11:21 am 
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Do own anything from any China, have a Twitter or Facebook account? If you have then you have made a choice that you don’t mind that it is from a place that is a dictatorial regime. You may turn a blind eye to it because it is convenient for you. Well that may be what happens for Newcastle fans, but there is no difference between those 2 scenarios. The point isn’t that there is uncomfortable truths to PIF, but every single consumer who has bought goods from these places does the exact same thing. No difference at all. So there is rank hypocrisy in complaining at Newcastle fans while you drive a car with a battery made from China, drinking your Brazilian coffee and warming your house with Russian gas, wearing clothes made in the Philippines. That is completely hypocritical. So anyone attempting to get Ona high horse about the reaction to these fans needs to consider how blurred their moral lines are when it is convenient for them
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goonerboy



Joined: 24 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2021 9:59 pm 
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Sadly the Newcastle situation is not the first or last time this will happen. It first started with Abramovic as research into his business history clearly indicates that his wealth wasn't exactly acquired through totally honorable means. Once the premier league opened its doors to anyone who has money without regard to their background then that was the thin end of the wedge. Unfortunately it sold its soul when cosying up with Sky and allowing itself to be run by the demands of TV.

The only soultion will be the German ownership model which essentially prevents the owners merely treating a football club as part of an investment portfolio. At Arsenal we have American owners who dont care about football nor club nor the supporters but who own 100% of the club. The supporters hate them but they couldn't give a t*ss and we are helpless. Awful situation and it is mirrored at many clubs.
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Flaming Pie



Joined: 26 Nov 2016
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 10:19 am 
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What has really upset me in all this Newcastle takeover stuff, is the fact that poor Steve Bruce doesn’t seem to receive any consideration. How will the lad ever manage if they just dump him? Anyway, something from football’s past that l would like to see brought back is the teleprinter( with the sound of a typewriter) bringing you the latest scores.
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Tynie Topics



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 10:34 am 
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Bokbag wrote:
Do own anything from any China, have a Twitter or Facebook account? If you have then you have made a choice that you don’t mind that it is from a place that is a dictatorial regime. You may turn a blind eye to it because it is convenient for you. Well that may be what happens for Newcastle fans, but there is no difference between those 2 scenarios. The point isn’t that there is uncomfortable truths to PIF, but every single consumer who has bought goods from these places does the exact same thing. No difference at all. So there is rank hypocrisy in complaining at Newcastle fans while you drive a car with a battery made from China, drinking your Brazilian coffee and warming your house with Russian gas, wearing clothes made in the Philippines. That is completely hypocritical. So anyone attempting to get Ona high horse about the reaction to these fans needs to consider how blurred their moral lines are when it is convenient for them


There is absolutely no hypocrisy in calling out the Fit & Proper test as a complete sham for letting a despotic regime take control of a football club. You're just engaging in whataboutery here.
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