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The Good Old Days
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Five and In



Joined: 15 Sep 2015
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Location: Dawlish, Devon

PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 7:59 am 
Post subject: The Good Old Days
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Really great thread everybody Clap

For me, I'm in the "it was better back in my day" camp.

I first went to The Lane in 1968 and once I was old enough in the mid 70s I followed Spurs everywhere and hardly missed a game home or away in twenty years.
My weekends were simple....Saturday at 3pm, I would be on a terrace and Sunday I would be playing right back for my Sunday League team.
It was perfect!

Then Sky and the PL came along and kick off times started to move here, there and everywhere making it harder to attend every game.

That is my biggest bug bear with the modern game....Nobody cares about the true supporters and for example, Newcastle could easily find themselves travelling to Southampton on a Monday night making it nigh on impossible for those with jobs to make the journey.

Like others have said, I miss the magic of the FA Cup, especially the Semi Finals and Finals.
I can easily recite the line ups for Finals in the 60s, 70s, 80s & 90s, but after that I couldn't even tell you the last ten winners in order and can't remember the last one I actually watched live.
I also think the rot started when Man Utd were encouraged by the FA to play in a meaningless competition in Brazil instead of defending the trophy they had won the previous season.
When Spurs met Arsenal in the 1991 Semi Final at Wembley, it made perfect sense to me, but should have been a one off. Instead, the cash registers were heard at Lancaster Gate and that seed was sown for good.

I miss spotting the floodlights as you approached the ground, the swaying masses on the terraces, the characters in the game, proper tackles going in, orange balls when it was snowing, muddy pitches, turning up and paying at the gate without the need to take out a loan, European competition without tedious group stages that nobody cares about, International matches that didn't destroy the domestic fixture list etc, etc.
I could go on for hours with this!

The "modern" game does have plus points though. Stadiums are safer, pitches are pristine, all the big games are shown live on TV and other points already made by others, although my life would be better without ever hearing Jim White on Sky or Talk Sport ever again!

For me, the game back in the day was more enjoyable.
The match day experience was more fun, less sanitised with no fans holding up cardboard signs begging for a players shirt and obviously, no fans filming the game on their phones instead of watching what was happening on the pitch with their own eyes.

The money in the game is also crazy.
Back in the eighties I was working in a decent job in the print trade.
My wages were probably around half what a top player would be on at the time.
That gap was realistic, but now the gap is astronomical and a bang average PL player will earn more in a week than most people will earn in a year...or two, or three!

In conclussion, one comment will stay with me forever.
It was when I was about to have my book published about five years ago and was made by Steve Perryman who kindly wrote the foreword for me.
He said that one of the reasons he loved being at Exeter was because it was like a throwback to what it had been like at Spurs when he was playing there.

That said it all for me then and still does.
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Flaming Pie



Joined: 26 Nov 2016
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:13 am 
Post subject: The Good Old Days
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As Five said, thanks should go to New Forest and Cpfc Jim, who have instigated a great topic. As you said Jim ,it will probably run and run. Have to agree with New Forest, that Spurs ‘ double ‘ team of 1960-61 was fantastic. Packed with stars , including the great Cliff Jones. Electric pace, what a goal - scoring winger he was!
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Dorking



Joined: 05 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 12:11 pm 
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Great thread, and fantastic post by PPP on the first page.

I have mixed views.

In the old days both cup competitions were totally respected with full first teams, and players played all games until they were injured!

Pitches were worse, I much prefer the pristine pitches of today. Supporting Palace, who for 17 years shared with Chrlton, then Wimbledon, ours was as bad as anyone's.

You'd get a programme at every single games, even reserves. Now that is starting to erode.

A new thing this season is having to play detective to find out the attendance - clubs have 10 days to report it apparently.

I don't like smartphone tickets, and stubbornly insisted on a plastic card from Palace.

Parking at many Premier League grounds is a science - to find somewhere on street and free, but also which afford a relatively efficient getaway takes years of knowledge building!

Regarding ticket pricing, I am quite lucky that I bought a 25 year season ticket 16 years ago, so don't have to think about the cost of most home games for a good few years yet. And away game tickets are capped at £30 in the Premier League.

We rarely have a cup run, so paying £100 for a semi final or final ticket at Wembley is once in a generation!

Bringing a bag into a ground is a minefield, at some places A4 size is the limit, I have an actual Wembley stadium clear plastic one for when I watch England there because i got so fed up with them measuring bags I had brought with me.

If the above sounds like more hassle than it's worth, I will say the radio tv and newspaper coverage of the top flight is brilliant these days.

Whenever Palace used to get promoted (it was a regular thing which never used to last long) then I'd be excited about the football stickers we'd feature in. Nowadays there are half a dozen sticker and card collections per season, and some of the cards are deliberately rare and unobtainable to make them more valuable (very annoying system)

To counter all this, I love to watch my local non league club when it fits around Palace matches, and that it like stepping back in time (apart from the plastic pitch). No stress, organisation or hassle involved! Park close by, drive away with ease, sensible prices, friendly atmophere, terrible refs, everything you want really.
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Grumpypants



Joined: 09 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:30 pm 
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Another aspect of the past that I miss, was the mini tournaments that used to be played pre-season. The Watney Cup springs to mind immediately, and I think the Scottish version, was it the Dryborough Cup?? I found this was a great tournament to set up what was ahead for the season. Great games with some great upsets. Pity it only last three or four seasons, would love to see it reinstated again.
Some clubs are quite content to play in Far Eastern Countries or the America's instead of at home. I understand that Clubs require to promote themselves, and give a chance for far away supporters to see the team they have adopted in action. Not much consideration though for the fan, based at home, who have followed their team from North to South, win, lose or draw and in rain, sun, snow etc.
Home Internationals is another tournment sadly a thing of the past. Rather watch these matches than this new European Nations thing going on. Absolute meaniningless unessesary games.
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Tynie Topics



Joined: 26 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:24 pm 
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Grumpypants wrote:

Home Internationals is another tournment sadly a thing of the past. Rather watch these matches than this new European Nations thing going on. Absolute meaniningless unessesary games.


Quite the opposite in fact, the Nations League provides competitive games and a pathway to the Euros and World Cup, instead of fairly meaningless friendlies. Macedonia qualified for the Euros as a result, as did Scotland......

The Home Internationals were past their sell by date even before "modern football" came along. 1984 the last one? Also clubs were touring abroad a century ago, and in the 1960's especially, the USA/Canada was a popular destination.
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New Forest



Joined: 05 Jun 2017
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:25 pm 
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Funnily enough The Big Match Revisited was on the telly as I had a late lunch. I saw the last game Halifax v Manchester City in the FA Cup at The Shay.

They were trying to mop up the ground before the game even started. They said the state of the ground was a great leveller. It was dreadful to say the least. Exciting and the players did well to stay upright. I have seen games played in even worse conditions and I have enjoyed them.

In those far off days it did have its good points - you could afford it, you could usually get a programme, you did not have to book and you could buy those star badges. I always played better on muddy pitches.

Today technically the pitches are better, which has to be a good thing. And you are safer - my son-in-law was at Hillsborough. I'll say no more.

Someone else said how good Cliff Jones was. He was my favourite and as luck would have it he turned out for Leyton in his final days alongside his son Steve.
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Grumpypants



Joined: 09 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:34 pm 
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Just your opinion though Tynie Topics. How many more avenues do you want to enter the European Championship and World Cup? There will be a time where every International Team will enter the Competitions and making it meaningless and the World Cup Finals Groups will get forever bigger making the Tournament Team entry even longer.
It's a bit like the 'Champions League', where clubs have no right to be there, but once they get knocked out, they then enter The Europa League or whatever it's called now. Meaninless, as you say the Home International were.
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Tynie Topics



Joined: 26 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:38 pm 
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Grumpypants wrote:
Just your opinion though Tynie Topics. How many more avenues do you want to enter the European Championship and World Cup? There will be a time where every International Team will enter the Competitions and making it meaningless and the World Cup Finals Groups will get forever bigger making the Tournament Team entry even longer.
It's a bit like the 'Champions League', where clubs have no right to be there, but once they get knocked out, they then enter The Europa League or whatever it's called now. Meaninless, as you say the Home International were.


You were complaining about meaningless games but hankering after the Watney/Dryburgh Cup! well the Nations League largely replaces international friendlies. The Nations League provides spots at the Euros and World Cup Finals, friendlies are a kickabout, which one's are more meaningless? I bet Macedonia knows.

I get it that some people yearn for the old days, but as someone who hardly ever misses an international when his country plays, I can say that the Nations League is a step forward from friendlies in my opinion.

I agree re CL, EL and the new one. It seems harder to be eliminated from European competitions than it is to qualify for it in the first place.
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Grumpypants



Joined: 09 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:56 pm 
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So you hardly ever miss an International, does this include a friendly International, which you indicate as a 'kickabout'. I don't know if you are in a minority or a majority towards these Nations League games. I do know that just about all the people I know, don't like these Nations League games and are another match too much and don't bother watching them.
You are also confusing club and International level.
The pre season tournaments I am going on about, were just 'mini' tournaments where at least small clubs had a chance to play bigger clubs, with the stars of the bigger clubs actually playing, great for the supporters!!
The Nations League Tournaments goes on for many months. Home Internationals lasted I think a week or ten days. I can't see what you are saying about Nations League replacing friendly Internationals, as I see, there are still friendly Internationals being played.
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Tynie Topics



Joined: 26 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 4:08 pm 
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Grumpypants wrote:
So you hardly ever miss an International, does this include a friendly International, which you indicate as a 'kickabout'. I don't know if you are in a minority or a majority towards these Nations League games. I do know that just about all the people I know, don't like these Nations League games and are another match too much and don't bother watching them.
You are also confusing club and International level.
The pre season tournaments I am going on about, were just 'mini' tournaments where at least small clubs had a chance to play bigger clubs, with the stars of the bigger clubs actually playing, great for the supporters!!
The Nations League Tournaments goes on for many months. Home Internationals lasted I think a week or ten days. I can't see what you are saying about Nations League replacing friendly Internationals, as I see, there are still friendly Internationals being played.


Nations League games are not really "another match too much", if nations weren't playing them they would be playing friendlies instead as UEFA obligate them to play a minimum of 10 internationals a year in order to comply with TV contract obligations and therefore receive a share of revenue.

So they don't replace friendlies completely but in Scotland's case we haven't played one since 2018. I guess everyone you asked about the NL perhaps don't have a complete understanding of the opportunities it provides to lower & mid ranking nations. Macedonia would never have qualified for the Euros via the normal qualifying route, and Scotland hadn't qualified in over 20 years, for the next Euros it will be another 2 or 3 smaller nations who get the spots. Good for the game.

Home Internationals, or Watney Cups, were from a different era and have had their day. Both were binned long before "Sky/modern football" had even been heard about.
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Pete’s Picture Palace
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Joined: 19 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 4:13 pm 
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Something else nobody has mentioned which was prevalent in the 70's and 80's and very nearly doesn't exist now. Very nearly, though there was of course a disgusting amount of it after the Euro 2020 final.

Racism on the terraces.

I give you 2 actual examples.

Palace v Chelsea April 1982. Paul Canoville warming up as a sub in front of the Old Stand at Selhurst Park. A row of Chelsea fans stood up and Nazi saluted as he ran in front of them. They also shouted and screamed abuse at him. Their own player too. I felt sick and walked out of the ground.

Palace v Leeds April 1986. A young Ian Wright chased after a long ball through the middle. He was just beaten to it by a Leeds defender (who will be nameless). His fair but hard challenge took the ball into Row X and Wright even further back. As the Leeds man got up, he gave a Nazi salute to the Leeds fans in the Arthur Wait stand, some of whom cheered and a few gave it back (not many, mind).

Of course, bananas and other obscenities rained down on black footballers for a good few years after that. Thank Goodness those days are gone. Does anyone seriously hanker after them?
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Cpfc jim



Joined: 20 Dec 2019
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 4:15 pm 
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I think I just miss the carefree simplicity of going to a game officialdom was at a bare minimum going to Oxford away and watching from up a tree Liverpool at home all ticket but bunging the turnstile bloke a tenner and hopping over (nine of us) lol he had a touch that day !
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Grumpypants



Joined: 09 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 4:18 pm 
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All I was saying was that I really missed these games tournaments and decided to make my opinion known.
So I liked missed them, you either liked them or not, I don't know, but you think that they have had their day, in which I respect.
The main supporters that I have had opinions of concerning Nations League games are Wales supporters, as I live in Wales!!! Many have supported them fifty years or more.
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Tynie Topics



Joined: 26 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 4:23 pm 
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Grumpypants wrote:

The main supporters that I have had opinions of concerning Nations League games are Wales supporters, as I live in Wales!!! Many have supported them fifty years or more.


and yet Wales have already secured a play-off spot in the World Cup qualifiers......via the Nations League! I wonder if these Wales fans will be complaining if they need to rely on that pathway to get to the finals.....
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Grumpypants



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 4:29 pm 
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Most of them don't give a damn!!! Mainly because of the selection process involving getting tickets. As I have said, some have supported Wales for more than fifty years going to every match home and away, and some other supporters have been selectetive about what games they attend and when success is there, there they are!!!! Crawling out of the woodwork and getting the tickets.
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Grumpypants



Joined: 09 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 4:56 pm 
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I know what you mean about racism on the terraces. Thankfully I have only witnessed this terrible behaviour a couple of times at Torquay United.
I saw Justin Fashanu being subject to racist torments when he missed an open goal, and this was by Torquay so called supporters. The incident made me feel sick and disgusted to be a Torquay fan. I could also see the hurt in Justin's eyes whilst he was listening to the constant stream of abuse. That was truly a very sad day.
I also saw Sean Wharton on crimewatch the other week talking about racism he had been subject to. I was kit manager for Inter Cardiff and Cwmbran in which Sean was a player with. Anyone who knows him, knows what a decent friendly individual he is, and under no circumstances deserves some of the shit he was subjected to. This was not in the 60's or 70's but towards the end of the 90's and begining of the 00's. Will it ever end.
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Flaming Pie



Joined: 26 Nov 2016
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 5:25 pm 
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Well said Grumpy, l remember taking my kids to Tranmere in the 1980s. They were playing Port Vale . Every time Robbie Earle got the ball for Vale, he got the racist treatment from some ‘ hardmen’ supporting Rovers. If you said anything you probably would have to be prepared to fight. Don’t think the stewards or police were told to do anything about racist abuse directed at the players in the 1980s, but might be wrong. Decided there and then that l would never take them to Tranmere ever again. Not just having a go at Rovers, there seemed to be plenty of racists at all clubs during The Good Old Days.
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Eck



Joined: 25 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 5:33 pm 
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I miss the days when l was aware of great players in Scotland outside of Glasgow. Jim Cruickshank, Pat Stanton, Alex Cropley, Drew Jarvie, Drew Busby, Willie Callaghan, Donald Ford I could rhyme off 100 from the 70's from most teams.
I loved my football then.
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Tynie Topics



Joined: 26 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:28 pm 
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Flaming Pie wrote:
Well said Grumpy, l remember taking my kids to Tranmere in the 1980s. They were playing Port Vale . Every time Robbie Earle got the ball for Vale, he got the racist treatment from some ‘ hardmen’ supporting Rovers. If you said anything you probably would have to be prepared to fight. Don’t think the stewards or police were told to do anything about racist abuse directed at the players in the 1980s, but might be wrong. Decided there and then that l would never take them to Tranmere ever again. Not just having a go at Rovers, there seemed to be plenty of racists at all clubs during The Good Old Days.


Robbie Earle was my favourite Wimbledon player back in the day, still got my shirt with his name and number on the back, sadly the shirt got mistakenly washed after he had signed it Get My Coat

Sadly, racism is as much a problem in society today as it was then.
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Flaming Pie



Joined: 26 Nov 2016
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:40 am 
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Tynie, l gave my daughter a Real Madrid kit ( kids size) signed by David Beckham for my grandson. He played in it and then that went into the wash as well ! . I think she thought it was that ink that doesn’t wash out. You are are right about the racism still being there., particularly in the Eastern European countries . I’ve been to some of those countries and away from football they seem lovely , civilised people . What goes on in their heads when they enter a football stadium? Fine midfielder wasn’t he, Robbie Earle.
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