Menus

[hydemaine]

This is a menu from the 1968 Homecoming banquet for Manchester United's European Cup win. Do you think it would be more valuable if some of the team/squad signed it at later events and you went around collecting autographs for years to come or do you think it's better left in its original very good blank condition as it was on the night.
I know which I prefer what about you?

[wandererpaul]

Leave it as it is.

If you went after the players over the following years, I'd say get them to autograph a plain piece of paper and insert it inside.
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Not Forgotten; Allwright, Greechan, Hagan, Kennedy, Littler, Purver, Robotham, Saunders, Shields

[Dorking]

If you do get it signed, do so in biro, not using a modern 'sharpie' style marker pen, as it won't look at all right for the era it represents with marker autos

[seand]

Personally I'd be happy to get it signed, if I was collecting the signatures myself and therefore certain that they were genuine!

[Five and In]

Why not get the back, or inside if there is one, signed? That way you are keeping the image unmarked. Really nice piece.

[whosbrianwilson]

I'd be very interested in Leslie's comments - about this item particularly and perhaps more generally about getting items signed a long time after the event.

[PompeyPhil]

If I could I would probably go for the signatures.......the question is does the piece become more valuable with signatures on it (in biro or sharpie pen!) or will they affect the value of the actual menu? Would be interested to hear Leslie's view on this particular piece of Man Utd memorabilia ........from a Pompey point of view I recently inquired about a Pompey signed menu (offered on this forum) and without revealing the price requested by the seller....... without a doubt the signed menu (with numerous Championship Players Signatures) was valued well in excess of the value of the actual menu! I wonder if that's the same for all menu's?

[hydemaine]

Five and In wrote:

Why not get the back, or inside if there is one, signed? That way you are keeping the image unmarked. Really nice piece.

It's a complete large size 8 pager no writing throught here are the uploads of the two centre pages which need two scans to cover the its size.

[hydemaine]

Freddie and the Dreamers as the cabaret act!

[slightfold]

I'm with wanderpaul on this, best leave it alone. Same rule applies to antiques. Dorking is right too insofar as if you want to collect autos use a biro,or a proper pen, not these bingo markers which seem all the rage and you end up with indecipherable scrawls and squiggles.
I think the whole issue of retro signing is a bit contentious, I like autos in my programmes (inside over the names preferably) and done at the time, but that's just me.
Here's another point, signatures and writing change as we age, I saw a Tom Finney auto on a game he had played in as a young man and it was obvious it was obtained as an old man both and for me it did not look right! The comparison was obvious with his young signature and my knowledge of Graphology.
In short I would say get the autos in biro of players at any age but date it and have it as an insert.

[manchesterunitedman1]

Hello All

It seems i am somewhat of an oracle on this matter so i apologise for the delay in responding.

My view is just as many of you have voiced in that the obvious thing is BIRO not the modern rubbish Black marker for starters if that is what you really want to do in getting an item signed.

So much on ebay especially re MU where "collectors" get dozens and dozens of modern prints signed and sell them on ebay NEVER mentioning that the player signed them an hour ago with a Black Sharpie and that the fools who buy them have not worked out they are being taken for mugs and there is in many cases no provenance anyway about the authenticity so unless u are very aware of signatures-leave well alone.

Now to add that personally if a menu has no signatures i would simply leave it as it is-that is my personal view, i will still look to obtain a menu without anything signed on for sure.

Also and again it has been mentioned already that players signature change as they get older, so to get a Georgie Best when he was 17-20 it was never signed in a felt tip or did it look like the same ones he was doing in his 50's-it is a minefield so do not look for trouble in my view.

Auction Houses in the main can spot a dud, sometimes the odd one slips thru the net, sometimes there is a mixture of genuine with the odd "Duncan Edwards" thrown in to make it look more value.

There is a known forger from Preston who via another person in the South is selling stuff on ebay , when questioned the Southern seller is "just a collector" and is trying to sell on and does not "really understand all these autographs" [bollox]. He and his accomplice buy old books and use the end papers to get the right age then Preston gets out his Waterman Pen and before you know it another "Busby Babes" full set has turned up!

I cannot recall who the offenders are-i made a note some time ago but cannot locate it, so if anything looks too good to be true it probably is!.

Another very valued comment from Paul was if you can get the signatures well after the event then get them on a separate piece of paper and if in time you found maybe a little uncertain on one or two, at least you have not ruined the menu.

In the case of Dave's menu he has put on to show, this was from 1967 and some of the players are no longer with us so what would be the point of getting some but not all-far better to leave it, but it is only my opinion-i do have some menu's where where signed and non signed and some may only have a few autos on but i would never look to get the rest.

I suspect over the years the saying "Ignorance is Bliss" comes into it's own as i would not know if some of the items i have were "add ons" some time later.

Unscrupulous characters will always prey on those who are looking to buy and forums like this may have still now some who just watch and see who is interested in this or that-it happened some years ago with the fake Cup Final tickets-i was caught out for a few quid and so were others, some were taken to the cleaners-slapped in the face and ripped off even more so and the perpetrators were on this forum under different names watching waiting and playing games-one auld lag was sent down but the others got away.

Going off the subject totally now so with that i will say Ta Ra for now, i have really only endorsed what many of you already think, if it is a very scarce menu from a Cup Final or a Promotion winning side and it is say pre-war or early post war without anything on-if it suits your pocket go after it as a stand alone item it is bound to add value in years to come.

Ask some of the vendors at yesterday's Sportingold Auction!

[manchesterunitedman1]

I was asked recently what is your favorite item-very difficult indeed a question with having quite a few bits and pieces.

Anyway, after much thought i said to myself if you had to keep one item, just one what would it be and no excuses it just had to be the one and nothing else, well i came to a decision it is a menu and it is not signed but it is my favourite item!

https://flic.kr/p/7SjKU3
https://flic.kr/p/7SjL43

[Jim LFC]

manchesterunitedman1 wrote:

I was asked recently what is your favorite item-very difficult indeed a question with having quite a few bits and pieces. Anyway, after much thought i said to myself if you had to keep one item, just one what would it be and no excuses it just had to be the one and nothing else, well i came to a decision it is a menu and it is not signed but it is my favourite item! https://flic.kr/p/7SjKU3 https://flic.kr/p/7SjL43

Cheers Leslie! Great item!

[hydemaine]

Leslie thanks for you advice again.

What a great idea for a seperate thread a sort of desert island discs for football collectors you can take only 5 items with you on the island? from your own collection.