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Help Save NTFC #SavetheCobblers
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chriscobbler



Joined: 06 Jun 2011
Posts: 66

PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 2:27 pm 
Post subject: Help Save NTFC #SavetheCobblers
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As many of you may be aware Northampton Town FC are facing a winding up order from HMRC which would mean the end of the club. Being a lifelong Cobblers fan this is heartbreaking and worrying. I have met a lot of people over the years whether it be at the games, collecting programmes and attending fairs and at the heart of it all has been Northampton Town FC.

The NTFC Supporters Trust (originally formed by Brian Lomax who sadly passed away yesterday) have set up a fundraising page and any exposure through websites, twitter or Facebook would be very much appreciated. And any donation no matter how small would amazing.

Links to the page and related pages are below:

https://crowdfunding.justgiving.com/ntfctrust

https://twitter.com/savethecobblers


Thank you for those who have already helped save the club I love.
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Pete’s Picture Palace
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Joined: 19 Feb 2013
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Location: Wallington Surrey

PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 8:02 pm 
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BUMP!!!!
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roughyedz



Joined: 16 Jul 2010
Posts: 601
Location: Oldham

PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:55 am 
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Surely they can do like all these other clubs have done ( and literally hundreds of thousands of buisinesses ) just go bump and reform as a different company, screw all the creditors .... lets face it its common practise in this country. . . .
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pafcprogs



Joined: 24 Dec 2008
Posts: 941
Location: Westerham Kent

PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 10:49 am 
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Having been through this at Plymouth my understanding is that they have tightened the rules somewhat and HMRC are , and always have been looking for a "scalp"...big enough to scare the others but not so high profile as it will cause tidal waves....

We were such a scalp and it was only the diligence of a fan who spotted the listing of a hearing in the London courts that stopped it from being one step away from closed.

It is a double edged sword...no-one want to lose their club but equally why should a football business trade in any different way to any other...we have a pitch that is the envy of many teams....but the poor sods that laid it never got paid...

As a result we now have a businessman who insists we trade profitably owning the club, we have an active fundraising group who accelerated the repayment of staff who worked for nothing to keep the club alive and a deep sympathy for fans like us who are in effect the people who care the most.

At league 2 level we don't have superstars earning mega money ( apart from at Pompey probably Smile) but guys making a living with mortgages and families.

So administration may not be a solution this time for the Cobblers....on the other hand I hope they survive as we don't want our three points taken away from the win earlier this season....

Time for another Fans Reunited day?

Peter
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se20blue



Joined: 21 Jul 2014
Posts: 677

PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 11:15 am 
Post subject: Re: Help Save NTFC #SavetheCobblers
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chriscobbler wrote:
As many of you may be aware Northampton Town FC are facing a winding up order from HMRC which would mean the end of the club. Being a lifelong Cobblers fan this is heartbreaking and worrying. I have met a lot of people over the years whether it be at the games, collecting programmes and attending fairs and at the heart of it all has been Northampton Town FC.

The NTFC Supporters Trust (originally formed by Brian Lomax who sadly passed away yesterday) have set up a fundraising page and any exposure through websites, twitter or Facebook would be very much appreciated. And any donation no matter how small would amazing.

Links to the page and related pages are below:

https://crowdfunding.justgiving.com/ntfctrust

https://twitter.com/savethecobblers


Thank you for those who have already helped save the club I love.




Interesting article about Brian, Northampton Town & Leeds Utd.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/34727383
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slightfold



Joined: 13 Oct 2009
Posts: 578

PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 11:45 am 
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Until the original post I did not know of Northampton's parlous state. From what I have read, it seems that the taxman is owed £166K and they are closing in on that. More worryingly is the £10.25 Million which the local council loaned to the club. Apparently David Cardoza and the club cannot account for where it has gone! I would suggest having a look down the back of the settee? Obviously I hope things can be resolved.
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whosbrianwilson



Joined: 08 Aug 2011
Posts: 237

PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:10 pm 
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Sorry, but I really don't feel that the "bucket" should be put in front of other clubs fans. It would appear that the chairman negotiated a £10 million loan to fund various projects and that money has vanished without trace?

It makes a mockery of all the clubs who manage to survive through their own efforts and don't rip off their suppliers by going into administration.

Would be disappointed to see any club disappear, but the whole "go into admin, write off all your debts and start again with a clean sheet" has gone too far.
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Eck



Joined: 25 Aug 2012
Posts: 2514

PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:54 pm 
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I know through experience of my own club that the fans are made to suffer through the dastardly deeds of a few suits.
I made a small donation, I know that fans of other clubs have done the same.
I also shared the link on my facebook, to me it's not about feeding fat cats playing monopoly, it's about trying to help fellow football fans who are guiltless and have a passion for their club.
I can identify with that.
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roughyedz



Joined: 16 Jul 2010
Posts: 601
Location: Oldham

PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 1:10 pm 
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They owe only 166k to the tax man and we're given a "loan" of 10million. . .
I have been hounded by the tax man to repay £400 from 7 years back . . . I personally repaid the tax man . . No reason why any business or person should not pay their dues . .
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sellsell39



Joined: 19 Nov 2011
Posts: 785
Location: Needham market

PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:04 pm 
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football fans are exactly that - fans of the club that they love.

they are not "customers".
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PompeyPhil



Joined: 24 May 2014
Posts: 326

PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:37 pm 
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roughyedz wrote:
They owe only 166k to the tax man and we're given a "loan" of 10million. . .
I have been hounded by the tax man to repay £400 from 7 years back . . . I personally repaid the tax man . . No reason why any business or person should not pay their dues . .


And how exactly does that make it right that the "fans" of a Football Club should "suffer" as a result of a dodgy owner or in our case several dodgy owners that have not paid their dues and then done a runner? Thankfully in our case we are now running OUR Club in a manner that is Well within our means........it took a lot of hard work but we got there.......most importantly we survived.....I do not want to see any Football Club go out of existence due to dodgy owners. Northampton Fans rightly have my sympathy and I would like to think that all the genuine members of the Football family would agree with that statement?
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Pete’s Picture Palace
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Joined: 19 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:47 pm 
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PompeyPhil wrote:
roughyedz wrote:
They owe only 166k to the tax man and we're given a "loan" of 10million. . .
I have been hounded by the tax man to repay £400 from 7 years back . . . I personally repaid the tax man . . No reason why any business or person should not pay their dues . .


And how exactly does that make it right that the "fans" of a Football Club should "suffer" as a result of a dodgy owner or in our case several dodgy owners that have not paid their dues and then done a runner? Thankfully in our case we are now running OUR Club in a manner that is Well within our means........it took a lot of hard work but we got there.......most importantly we survived.....I do not want to see any Football Club go out of existence due to dodgy owners. Northampton Fans rightly have my sympathy and I would like to think that all the genuine members of the Football family would agree with that statement?


All the way, Phil.
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efc1998



Joined: 25 Apr 2009
Posts: 175

PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 3:28 pm 
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As a supporter of a club (Chester City as it was) which was wound up in 2010 by the High Court I have nothing but sympathy and admiration for supporters who rally around when times become extremely grim during desperate times. Supporters are the life blood of all football clubs, be it previously or in the future

OUR new supporter owned club Chester FC was formed in 2010 and we were lucky to placed in Evo Stik North League when things could have been much worse and placed lower down the pyramid. Three successful championship winning seasons have seen us flat-lined in the Conference National over the last two plus seasons where we have hit our level and are unlikely in the foreseeable future ever get back into the Football League due the fact that we do not have the money to make a serious crack at regaining that spot. I would take this scenario all day long over clubs who do not live within their means which I would suggest are far too many at all levels. Even clubs in the Conference National are spending obscene amounts of money they do not have to achieve that aim. Forget it as it will all end in tears having seen both sides of the coin.

Good luck to the Cobblers in their quest in coming out the other side you will need spades full.
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roughyedz



Joined: 16 Jul 2010
Posts: 601
Location: Oldham

PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 9:03 pm 
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Pete’s Picture Palace wrote:
PompeyPhil wrote:
roughyedz wrote:
They owe only 166k to the tax man and we're given a "loan" of 10million. . .
I have been hounded by the tax man to repay £400 from 7 years back . . . I personally repaid the tax man . . No reason why any business or person should not pay their dues . .


And how exactly does that make it right that the "fans" of a Football Club should "suffer" as a result of a dodgy owner or in our case several dodgy owners that have not paid their dues and then done a runner? Thankfully in our case we are now running OUR Club in a manner that is Well within our means........it took a lot of hard work but we got there.......most importantly we survived.....I do not want to see any Football Club go out of existence due to dodgy owners. Northampton Fans rightly have my sympathy and I would like to think that all the genuine members of the Football family would agree with that statement?


All the way, Phil.

#
As explained by efc1998 other clubs have managed to re-form and are doing better now that they are being run as a going concern, it just p****s me off that the ones that take money from here there and everywhere in loans and grants etc etc just dont give two hoots about Joe the programme printer or Fred the pie salesman that they owe thousands to ( not to mention the tax man ) yet they still pay their players thousands upon thousands of pounds a week ......... All players have been paid , the ower is millions in pocket ......... who are the losers .....we all know . . . if i did what these poeple do id get 10 years inside. . . but they all get away with it scott free
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derby1884
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Joined: 05 Aug 2012
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Location: the very western edge of Aberdeen

PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 11:19 pm 
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pafcprogs wrote:


It is a double edged sword...no-one want to lose their club but equally why should a football business trade in any different way to any other...we have a pitch that is the envy of many teams....but the poor sods that laid it never got paid..

Peter


Regardless of the legal technicalities, would it not be a nice gesture by the current owner(s) of Plymouth Argyle to simply pay the firm that laid the pitch?
I may be getting the wrong end of the stick here but what you wrote really surprised me.
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Pete’s Picture Palace
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 11:25 pm 
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CPFC 2010 Ltd took over the club in summer 2010, at the 11th hour.

The fans had a whip-round to pay St John's Ambulance.

There was a list of other creditors as long as your arm, inherited from the previous owner of orange appearance. Did they get paid off? I wouldn't bank on it.

Those are, or were, the rules. They stank. But was it the responsibility of CPFC 2010 to pay their predecessor's debts? Legally, no. Morally? Debateable.
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derby1884
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 11:44 pm 
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Ethically, Plymouth are plying their trade on an asset that the vendor of has never been paid for.
It's the same PAFC, I presume, who are playing on it as raised a purchase order for it, so why not pay for that asset?

Legally, they may not have to but clubs come out with all this guff about being at "the heart of the community" - and here would be a good example of actions speaking louder than words.
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pafcprogs



Joined: 24 Dec 2008
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Location: Westerham Kent

PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:18 am 
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Ethically you a re correct...legally the new owner was a buyer of last resort....he basically said he would stand in if no other buyer could be found...all the usual charlatans and chancers were found wanting...so he came in and a new company was formed to acquire the club and it's Football league share. So of course he isn't going to simply hand over monies he didn't have to...and legally he didn't..not his mess...the alternative was less money in a failed administration and having been through one the only people that make money are the administrators and lawyers ( oh and Peter Ridsdale)

As a condition of the transfer of the share the football league place pretty severe restrictions on what the club could do until it had cleared its debts... well in excess of previous admins and rebirths....but the whole point of limited companies is they limit liability...

we no longer own our ground...that went back to the council and the redevelopment planned for our aging grandstand is a long running saga which shows no sign of being resolved making us a three and half sided ground at best.

The anomaly the HMRC want to remove is that football creditors take preference over all other unsecured creditors which is what means when a cub go down the unsecured creditors line up behind transfer payments owing, player contracts et al.

we had some players who were magnanimous in renegotiating their contracts to help the club survive...people like Simon Walton

We also had our best youngsters plundered....although that may well have happened anyway given the current state of the game and received the princely sum of around £30,000 for one Yannick Bolasie ( no sell on)

So many clubs have been down this road at all levels then I do think eventually it will take one to go pop to bring the game partially to it's senses.

No-one wants it to be their club....so I hope NTFC make it...but it will happen.
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whosbrianwilson



Joined: 08 Aug 2011
Posts: 237

PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:32 am 
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One of the clubs in my area - Port Vale - has just published its accounts.

This is a club that has gone into admin twice in the last 10 years each time owing shed loads of money to local businesses. Many firms were hit on both occasions, some actually went bust as a result of not being paid.

New owner bought them 3 years ago and they are now in debt to him for nearly £3 million pounds. He has hived off the ground and social club into a separate company.

What happens when he gets fed up with his new and very expensive toy? Admin again?

Its a joke.
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Pete’s Picture Palace
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 10:42 pm 
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This is on the BBC website about it today...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-34750400

Great to see the boys on the pitch doing their best in these worrying circumstances - but of course they don't have anything to worry about unlike the poor old fans. Hope the Cobblers get a good draw in R2.
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