Football Programmes Centre

goonerboy · Joined: 24 Aug 2009 Posts: 1050

I bought a ticket on the UK ebay site from a seller in Holland. He informed me that the ticket had been dispatched and I received the envelope yesterday. I opened it and inside was 2 pieces of card cellotaped nicely around all 4 edges to protect the ticket. .....except when I removed the cellotape and separated the card there was nothing there. No ticket....nothing.

I contacted the seller and he is saying it must have been stolen from the envelope. I pointed out that there was no evidence of either the envelope having been opened or the cellotape removed from the card but he suggests it is the work of a professional theft, the work of a gang.

DannyRoberts · Joined: 29 Apr 2012 Posts: 504 Location: South London

As long as you paid via PayPal you should be covered for your loss.

However I would also suggest naming the seller in case any other forum members have had previous dealings with him. We can then, hopefully, vouch for his integrity.

Tynie Topics · Joined: 26 Nov 2009 Posts: 3572

Don't delay, report it to ebay. Sounds like a con.
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Wullie · Joined: 10 Jun 2009 Posts: 3423

Was it an expensive item ?

garyspain · Joined: 24 Mar 2010 Posts: 900

Given 2 of the biggest gangsters dealing in programmes on ebay are Dutch it is possible it is a fraud. Both are very convincing liars.

If you want to pm me the name.

It could have been an accident too and he may have sent ito the wrong person.

Fishy · Joined: 07 Jun 2011 Posts: 1218

Open a case - Item Not Received

The principal is the thing - if he gets away with it once he'll try again whatever the monetary value...............

goonerboy · Joined: 24 Aug 2009 Posts: 1050

the ticket cost me £83 so not a cheap item. The seller is someone with user ID "myvinylsigh" and not someone with whom I have dealt previously and from looking at his items it is a mix of some football items and other items.

The strange thing was that instead of his first reaction being that he could have made a mistake and he would check for the ticket at home but instead he started implying a gang of thieves working within the postal system who then resealed the envelope. I am not sure why a thief would bother resealing the envelope and put it back into the system. ..but who knows. However there was no evidence at all of any tampering with the envelope or contents.

I have asked him for a refund so if that is not forthcoming report it to ebay (I did pay by paypal).

TheMusic · Joined: 13 Aug 2011 Posts: 533

I know the seller and can vouch for his honesty. I can well imagine either he's made an honest mistake or it really has been stolen. After all, with your paypal/ebay insurance, there's really nothing to be gained from his side...

DannyRoberts · Joined: 29 Apr 2012 Posts: 504 Location: South London

I am assuming it is the Arsenal v Manchester United ticket.

Was it sent by registered air mail or ordinary ?

Either way you should claim form eBay/PayPal for item not received.

For something this valuable the seller should have pretty much insisted on registered air mail so that he too would be covered if it was a genuine case of theft within the postal system.

goonerboy · Joined: 24 Aug 2009 Posts: 1050

TheMusic wrote:

I know the seller and can vouch for his honesty. I can well imagine either he's made an honest mistake or it really has been stolen. After all, with your paypal/ebay insurance, there's really nothing to be gained from his side...

Fair enough and as I have never bought from him previously have no bias.

The envelope was clearly not opened/tampered and the 2 pieces of card inside were taped around all 4 edges with no evidence of recellotaping so the chance of it having been stolen is very very small. Maybe he either inadvertently didn't put it in and it is still at his home somewhere or maybe he accidentally included it in someone elses envelope and sent it to another buyer of another ticket.

goonerboy · Joined: 24 Aug 2009 Posts: 1050

DannyRoberts wrote:

I am assuming it is the Arsenal v Manchester United ticket.

Was it sent by registered air mail or ordinary ?

Either way you should claim form eBay/PayPal for item not received.

For something this valuable the seller should have pretty much insisted on registered air mail so that he too would be covered if it was a genuine case of theft within the postal system.

Yes it was the arsenal man utd ticket. It came ordinary airmail.

Posh1959 · Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Posts: 1227

Looking at the sellers ended items, the ticket was the only item ending at that time so that reduces the chance of it being put in the wrong envelope. It is unusual for an item of that value to be posted by normal post, and i agree why should thieves remove the ticket and put the envelope back in the postal system, it doesn't make sense. As you paid by paypal you will eventually get refunded i realise that is not the principal as you would obviously rather have the ticket. Good luck

markb9060 · Joined: 29 Jan 2012 Posts: 234

This may be more complicated than it seems. I hardly ever buy on Ebay so might not be up to date with their ever changing rules.

From what I can remember, 'Recorded Delivery' insures the seller against claims of non-receipt as he can prove not only that the item was sent but also that it was received.

Two bits of cardboard sellotaped together with nothing in the middle however could possible be more of a SNAD dispute (seriously not as described)

If it is a scam it`s a worrying one because how do you prove that it hasn't been tampered with along the way....it`s not as if it`s something the size and weight of a lawn mower that isn't in the wrapper when you open it.

Why would anyone with such a reaonable reputation wish to tarnish this when he's already made £83 on the deal ? Unless he knows that Ebay/Paypal feel stumped as well.

markb9060 · Joined: 29 Jan 2012 Posts: 234

Sorry just re-read your post about t it was sent by ordinary airmail however this still creates a problem of you having still 'received' it.

Eck · Joined: 25 Aug 2012 Posts: 2548

He will keep you hanging on until the 14 day money back guarantee expires,open a case right away. You never received the item,you received an empty envelope,it's not complicated at all,I repeat OPEN A CASE RIGHT AWAY.

markb9060 · Joined: 29 Jan 2012 Posts: 234

Eck wrote:

He will keep you hanging on until the 14 day money back guarantee expires,open a case right away. You never received the item,you received an empty envelope,it's not complicated at all,I repeat OPEN A CASE RIGHT AWAY.

It is complicated because it's the buyer's word against the seller's.

Look at it another way....I send a programme by recorded delivery to someone. He opens the envelope, takes out the programme then says there was no programme inside. How do you prove anything?

I take your point about the money back scenario as the seller is never favoured by Ebay and I'm not for one moment suggesting this is the case here...I'll leave that to the dip sticks. No I'm merely suggesting a weak link or flaw in the system.

TheMusic · Joined: 13 Aug 2011 Posts: 533

How can this be solved amicably though so neither party loses out too much?

I've dealt with both parties and have even met the vendor so I'd be confident neither is at fault in a sinister way, but I would say both were at fault for not insisting on special delivery.

So who should suffer at the end of it all? Do they split the difference and learn something from the episode? Should it be just one's responsibility, or are eBay's rules on who loses out the fairest possible outcome?

Eck · Joined: 25 Aug 2012 Posts: 2548

If you buy something,surely it is the seller's responsibility to make sure that the recipient gets what he paid for.

Themusic,if you say you have dealt with the seller, then I have no reason to dispute,but the seller should make every attempt to put things right, not try to put the blame elsewhere. Any time I have sold an item that has fetched a decent price,I always make it signed for and insured,even though it cuts into my profit.

I do realise that there are some buyers that would try to pull a fast one,I have a few items (one recently) that have went missing and I refund without question. The one recently was one where theMoney back guarantee had expired but I still refunded.

Eck · Joined: 25 Aug 2012 Posts: 2548

Mark,I know you are being fair minded and that is good, I have changed my mind about being hard line but I still would try and get my money back. Given what themuic says it seems as though a mistake has been made. I would ask the guy if it is possible that an error had taken place,also to the seller (unlikely,I know) is there somewhere in the packaging that the ticket is hidden (a long shot) but it has happened to me.

TheMusic · Joined: 13 Aug 2011 Posts: 533

I understand what you're saying. It being on the seller to make sure the item gets to its destination is certainly one stance that can be taken. Does it then mean that sellers should pay for special delivery on items over £46 not covered by free proof of postage, if they wish not to risk losing out in the event of loss or damage in the post? I'm not necessarily disagreeing, just I can imagine this may not be the majority view.