War Time Reserve Programmes

[manchesterunitedman1]

It must have been hard enough to get a team together in those days, let alone the paper to print the programmes and then there was the small matter of Air Raids, rationing and so forth but do any members have any of thier clubs reserve issues home or away in this period?
I include some images below
Look forward to hearing from anyone on this matter and of course should anyone have any against MUFC i would be interested to see an image or enven look to purchase or exchange.
Leslie Millman-manchesterunitedman1
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[nozer]

Are these in has good a condition has thay look Leslie ?.
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[manchesterunitedman1]

nozer wrote:

Are these in has good a condition has thay look Leslie ?.

Hi Phil

Yes the condition is as per the images, the programmes are both 4 sided ones, decent quality paper too.

[Wullie]

Strange that reserve games were played during the war years, as you say, teams often stuggled to put out a first team.

[andy1966]

1945-56 season was the first after the war so players returning so I guess clubs were building up squads, trying to get back to some sort of normality.

[Tynie Topics]

1945-46 wasn't war time. Nice advert though
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[corneli_blue]

Cardiff City's reserve side played in the Cardiff Combination League during the war years (prior to 1945-46). I doubt if any sort of programme would have been issued for them.

In 1945-46 our reserves played in the Southern League, often against non-league 1st teams. I've never seen programmes for the home games but would expect them to have issued programmes.

There are programmes for at least some of the away games.







Alan

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[manchesterunitedman1]

Tynie Topics wrote:

1945-46 wasn't war time. Nice advert though

Correct as WW2 officially was ended on the 8th May 1945 2 days after the Nazi Bastards and the Italians surrendered.

1945-1946 was an interim season or a kind of "adjustment" in not only sporting activities but in the daily routine of life after 6 years of hardship, destruction and bloodshed, but i think it is "considered" as war time[collector wise] as the English Football League in all it's 4 divisions would not return until August 1946 , everything was starting to come back for Army, Navy & Raf men returning home and many players as well as in a lot of cases it was one and the same.

As far as MUFC is concerned after the first 3 matches of 1939-40 were played[when war broke out] the remainder of the games that season were played in the "Western League" and a "League Cup Competition".
1940-1, 1941-2, 1942-3,1943-4 & 1944-5 Football League North, North Regional Competition and a League War Cup.
1945-6 it was all changed to Football League North and the F.A. Cup was resumed this season. other clubs around the country would compete in their own regional leagues so you are correct in that 1945-6 was not ACTUALLY wartime but as collectors it is regarded as prior to peace time even though the War had ended in May 1945. The same constraints on paper rationing for the programmes was evident, but of course there were no more air raids and the population was now able to travel freely without all the restrictions of the previous 6 years but the way of life would be very slow to return to the Pre-War times and food and clothing were the obvious problems with rationing still in force and this would last for a few more years so flimsy bits of paper like the ones that show up from that season of 1945-6 season would have some tales to tell if they could speak!
Leslie Millman-manchesterunitedman1

[manchesterunitedman1]

corneli_blue wrote:

Cardiff City's reserve side played in the Cardiff Combination League during the war years (prior to 1945-46). I doubt if any sort of programme would have been issued for them. In 1945-46 our reserves played in the Southern League, often against non-league 1st teams. I've never seen programmes for the home games but would expect them to have issued programmes. There are programmes for at least some of the away games. Alan .

Nice items some were "issued by the supporters club" can just see United allowing that to happen-EVER!

[derby1884]

In 1944/45, Derby entered a reserve team in the Midland Senior League alongside Forest, Leicester, Notts Co but also including a number of mining-based teams such as Ollerton Colliery and Holbrook MW.

Never seem any issues for these games, though.

Pardon my ignorance here, but was mining a reserved occupation?

Derby seemed to issue the same 4 page issue for all reserve team and first team games for 45/6.
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[cardiff55]

Some fabulous items there, and the 3 Cardiff ones are excellent too. Very envious!

[Auchinleckian]

derby1884 wrote:

In 1944/45, Derby entered a reserve team in the Midland Senior League alongside Forest, Leicester, Notts Co but also including a number of mining-based teams such as Ollerton Colliery and Holbrook MW. Never seem any issues for these games, though. Pardon my ignorance here, but was mining a reserved occupation? Derby seemed to issue the same 4 page issue for all reserve team and first team games for 45/6.

If you check out the story of the Bevan Boys, either online, or in numerous books on the subject you'll get a fascinating insight into mining during WW2. Tens of thousands of young men / boys were drafted into the pits to keep coal production up to speed. So although it wasn't a reserved occupation as such - many thousands of miners went to war - there was an element of it via the mass drafting of the young men.

A few years earlier, if you're interested at all in miners per se during war time, hundreds of Welsh miners went to fight Franco's fascists with the International Brigade. There extraordinary tale can be found in the book Miners against Fascism, a fabulous narrative of a relatively unknown piece of working class history. Scottish miners went in big numbers as well, and Scotland had more International Brigade volunteers per capita than any other country.

[PaulRStoke]

The only home reserve I've got during that period is December 1945. It is the normal Stoke City single sheet issue, similar to what they issued for "league" games during the war, although they did start issuing four page programmes for league games in 1945/6

[slightfold]

Some great programmes and interesting social history too. Some teams, Hull City being one, did not, I believe, even field a team for 1945/6. As stated things were gradually assuming some semblance of normality. Many collectors don't consider any War time issues as being valid, and start their collections from 1946/7. I like 1939/40 but there are not many of these about!

[MaccProgrammesWanted]

No wartime reserves here I'm afraid - earliest I have is 1947 but considering the size of the club I cannot imagine anything was produced for the reserves during the war:


Do however have a wartime first team programme from 1939/40:

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[GreatBarrWolf]

Only got a couple of Wolves Reserves from 1945-46 when we competed in the Central League. Interestingly we also fielded a third team this season in the Birmingham Combination.

For the 1944-45 season we did have a Reserve XI which played friendly fixture most Saturday's with a third XI (most probably juniors or youth's) playing in the Wolverhampton & District Amateur League.

[Superajm]

Anyone have anything involving Posh first team or reserves from the war period?

I've never seen any!

[sharrowblade]

I'm feeling left out.

Here's a Blades reserve match from 1944-5


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A Sheffield United Programme guide

[manchesterunitedman1]

slightfold wrote:

Some great programmes and interesting social history too. Some teams, Hull City being one, did not, I believe, even field a team for 1945/6. As stated things were gradually assuming some semblance of normality. Many collectors don't consider any War time issues as being valid, and start their collections from 1946/7. I like 1939/40 but there are not many of these about!

.

What do you mean "NOT VALID"?.

The teams that may have been put out may have contained some guest players granted, the competitions they played in were reagional so you could end up playing your local rivals several times in a season, but the programmes if issued were OFFICIAL from the club-so i can understand some collectors saying they do not collect war time items[maybe because you cannot hardly expect to find a full set in the early days and years of the war 1939/40/41/42/43 perhaps], then again these items when they ever do show up are scarce and therefore costly so i can see some collectors preferring to stick with 1946-7 as the starter and maybe some just would like one programme per season to have something but NOT VALID i think is somehow not the right wording but i know where you are coming from-i personally do not hold that view, anything my club has printed is official and therefore collectable.

I cannot comment on programmes from other clubs but would think it would not be too difficult to still find many of the London clubs , for MUFC 1944-5 and 1945-6 do show up but those earlier seasons are very tough.

Any members care to comment on whether they feel ithe wartime issues for their clubs are VALID or not as after all as i said before it is a collecters choice for sure and whichever club you follow deep pockets will always be needed for most items pre-1946-7 and especially if they are against United!.

A Tranmere Rovers, Halifax Town, Chester or Crewe Alex programme in say season 1944-5 against each of those clubs would sell for what? up to £50 or more?-if it is any of those clubs v MUFC the prices can shoot up well in excess of £500-600++ should two folks wish to lock horns which two did recently when a Halifax Town v MUFC postponed issue[see image] went as high as that at one of the auction houses then we had tone or two chancers on ebay offering their copies to try and pull in the one who missed out!

Anyway here are some examples that have cost a few bob

SORRY TO HIJACK THE THREAD FROM WARTIME RESERVES-but it is my thread!:





Leslie Millman-manchesterunitedman1

[tackler7]

A Northern Command v Western Command football programme from the war appears regularly on ebay.

I collect Northern Command rugby union programmes from this period and it always comes up in my ebay searches.