Has the arse fallen of the programme market.........

[Tynie Topics]

......for anything other than rare items? and will the current "buyers market" ever be a sellers market again? Discuss.
_________________
https://www.flickr.com/photos/footballprogrammes/albums

[seand]

There's a massive recession on which is affecting discretionary spending. I know I'm not spending as much on programmes as I did (or as I'd like!) because I simply can't justify spending the money when its a struggle to cover mortgage, car, insurance etc etc. At a wild guess I'm not the only one.

[Drvonshineck]

There is an obvious collation between the economic situation at large and the ability of collectors to spend money on a hobby.

When boom time comes again and everyone has got credit coming out their arse, rest assured the value of programmes will rise again.

The capitalist economy is like a predictable temperamental child.

[JJPROGRAMMES]

I buy to sell and sell to buy...

So if I don't sell anything I don't buy,

Would put the problem down to a couple of things,

1) The current recession is worse than we think (especially for programme collectors!!)
2) Ebay, to much competition for a sale.
3) Maybe the stuff I`ve got for sale on ebay is shite!!
4) Everybody wants something for nothing (again especially programme collectors!!).
5) All spare cash around the world is sitting in Chinese bank accounts and investment funds (they recently bought 10% of Thames water!!!!!!!!!, which we all once owned!!!!!)

All we can do now is wait for Cameron to tell us the economy is healthy and give us the all clear and then its business as usual!!!!!!!!!!!

[Kickoff3pm]

Here's my take on it, not that it's worth a jot.

The market is in flux, for one reason and that mostly attitude to whats about to happen not whats happening. People are clearing out things they think they can no longer afford to keep, others are stopping doing things they enjoy because they think they must pull in their belt.

I get perhaps ten offers to sell every week and it might surprise you to learn that even though I've not adjusted my prices I'm seeing less people accept them. This is not a sign of forced sales in my opinion.

As for buying, the are still buyers around but these are being very selective and the main reason for that is they feel they should get a bargain in this market.

So you have sellers who want the best price and buyers that want the best price. This means the market is less fluid, this in turn means deals have less money to spend on stock and in general if dealers can't buy the marker slows down a lot and the things on places like ebay rotate and rotate at the same price not an higher price.

It will recover to normal when the Olympics & the Euros are in our heads I'm sure.

[Tynie Topics]

Could it be that the market has “adjusted” over the last few years to more realistic prices based on the realisation that a lot of programmes are not so rare as we were once lead to believe?

I have noticed that eg. certain Scotland issues that, although never in the rare category, were harder to obtain and as such commanded a premium price, but more and more of these are now appearing. I’ll use an example of the England v Scotland Bolton Disaster match from 1946, always a £100+ programme, I’ve noticed slightly substandard copies appearing on ebay and failing to sell for £50/60, but I picked up a good condition copy along with a nice pirate for £22 on ebay at the weekend. This begs the question, was it ever a £100+ programme in the first place?

Another noticeable glut is the Scotland v England issue from 1948, again never really rare but not easy to find. I picked-up an almost mint copy about a year ago for £25, and I have since noticed more and more copies appearing on ebay and as such the price has remained low when once this was a £50+ programme.

Will these two issues ever command £100 and £50 again? I doubt it. 1930’s Scotland v England issues have nose dived over the last few years as well, where I once thought the 1937 and 1939 issues were rare £200+ programmes, they now appear very regularly at sub £100 prices.

Personally I think it’s the financial downturn prompting collectors to think twice when buying and also leading to collectors and non collectors alike flooding ebay with programmes that we all once thought were rare but after 12 years of ebay, we’re finding out that’s just not the case. Prices will recover, but never to the same levels.
_________________
https://www.flickr.com/photos/footballprogrammes/albums

[matt blue]

I've to be honest I feel its also on its arse as im obtaining a lot more programmes for huge amounts less then when I was looking say 3 years ago.

I say this as I collected 6 months worth of sales on the lc semi finals and finals, prices have dropped greatly apart from the rochdale v norwich !

Plenty of money in the russian market though, I picked up a rare torpedo moscow programme a few month back for little money and have already been offered 4 figures for it.
_________________
http://cardiffcityprogrammes.weebly.com/

Take a look at my work in progress !!

[Ruud Van Driver]

Could it not also be that along with the lack of disposable income new collectors are not coming to the hobby. I've mentioned before that my football daft son and every single one of his mates and team mates have absolutely no interest in collecting what they see as bits of paper, they don't even buy one from the games they attend. My son can't believe it when I ask him to save me his used ticket!!!
_________________
For a daily feed of football nostalgia please click on the link to view my Twitter page on your PC - https://twitter.com/MemorabiliaMal

[seand]

I reckon big match 'rare' programmes like Tynie's England-Scotland programmes mentioned above are more likely to see the light of day from non-collectors these days. Everyone knows about eBay so if someone finds something (anything) in the attic the first thing to do is have a look on eBay instead of dumping it or giving it away. The likes of the England-Scotland programmes are highly collectable but hardly rare as there would have been big crowds and decent print runs. Nowadays more of those type of programmes are coming to light

[paulo]

The internet has just allowed many more sellers to come to the market.

Simple supply and demand really.

[goonerboy]

The other factor is that over the last few years it has been a lot easier through ebay to pick up anything from mid50s onwards for a quid or two for most clubs. Quite often you can get bulk lots or a whole season for a pretty good price. Thus collectors who have been around for a while have filled in collections pretty quickly and cheaply thus the only progs that are needed by a lot of collectors are the rarer items.

Ebay has also driven prices right down even for harder to get items. One comes up and there might be a scramble with a few heavy hitters bidding high. That stimulates the market and you regularly see several more come up soon afterwards. The problem is that is takes two to make an auction so once the money men have got their copies then future copies are being chased by people not willing to pay premium price so value goes down.

I would also suspect that the number of newer collectors is falling so the number of collectors requiring 1960s -2010s is not expanding quickly.

[aye aye rhubarb pie]

totally agree with ruud van driver,
my grandson goes to elland rd regularly and always laughs when i ask him to get me a programme, none of his mates contemplate saving programmes as a hobby.

as more and more of the older end depart there is not the youngsters replacing them as collectors, so as time goes on there will be less and less buyers in the market.

as others have said ebay has a lot to do with things, as families have a clear out it goes on ebay rather than in the bin.

[albion99]

This has to be one of the most interesting subjects on here for ages and its been fascinating reading what you all have to say on the subject.
Why are you surprised that kids don't feel the need to buy a programme these days?
How many of us would have started collecting had we been paying £3 plus for one?
Whatever we paid seemed more than enough, but having a programme in your hand was all part of the experience of being at the game.
At one game I went to, I could not find a single progamme to buy so finished paying a boy two shillings for his sixpenny programme, he got a 300% profit and I still have the programme!
At today's prices, its hardly surprising few youngsters become collectors, it would be interesting to know if anyone reading this thread has taken it up as a hobby in the last 12 months?
Perhaps if as collectors we closed ranks and put programme packages together based around the excesses we all have, we might stimulate new interest?
If youngsters interested were able to obtain the basis of a collection to begin with say 50 to 100 programmes through a central source for a £1 or some such figure it may offer encouragement to begin collecting?
I posted on here some time back that many of those who join this forum never contribute, and I do find myself wondering just how many collectors are really out there?
Many of the regular posters on here are what I would describe as the cream of collectors, your knowledge of the hobby is superb and so many of you are only to willing to help the me's of this world.
Judging by the tone of other posts, there needs to be some stimulation within the market, if prices are to rise again, but that won't happen if we all sit still.

[Drvonshineck]

albion99 wrote:

At today's prices, its hardly surprising few youngsters become collectors, it would be interesting to know if anyone reading this thread has taken it up as a hobby in the last 12 months?

I have only recently falling back in love with collecting.

I started picking up programmes in my early teenage years then went off and done other things.

Then over christmas I started raking though the programmes that I had and organized them.

Now I'm hooked again and have established what I want to get my hands on.

It must be said that generally speaking I don't collect modern (pre-1980's) programmes although I do pick up a programme when I attend games.

I have found this forum incredibly informative and constructive in terms of helping budding collectors, long may it continue.

[Observer]

It is not only the cost but the size of modern programmes that must put off many people from collecting.

Three or four seasons worth of recent programmes will take up more space than a decades worth of 1950s/60s/70s programmes. It is difficult to dedicate space for the hobby for many households.

It must also be quite annoying most seasons to see, for example, the FA Cup Final programme being advertised before the event at £10 plus p/p and yet, most years, you can be sure that mint examples will be available a month or so later for a fraction of the price.

[seand]

As has been said the size (and price) of modern issues is a joke. A mate of mine had collected all Man City homes since the mid 60s but stopped last season as a season was taking up an entire shelf.

[Herdwicksheep]

I have just started collecting in the last year.

Started when i was off work after an opp and thought Iwould collect the first time I went to grounds, and worked my way neatly through that (4 to get) and then thought I'd get Carlisle's first division season and then have just this last week got a collection of the carlisle aways and a few homes from a bloke who sold me a couple for the first time at a ground collection.

As I've been collecting them Ive found it very interesting to read through them and have memories brought back of the ride there, what the ground was like, the teams ect then, moving on to the 74/75 season, a Carlisle team that i have just read about and reading the pen pics of opponents, reading about players just coming through into first teams that would be superstars when I really start to remember listening on the radio and watching games on tv like the world cup 82.

As Ive been on here I have found that I have paid a fortune for things I could have got for cheaper but you live and learn I guess. The sense of exitement when you see something you need is a strange feeling.

Also, started to take a bag to put my programme in when i go to see games then the programme doesnt get bent or creased and that has caused my traveling companion to laugh his head off me and say I'm a sado!!! (apoligies to everyone but thats what he says to me)

I really didnt expect to start collecting but I have a fear that it has turned into a hobby that has started to take on a life of its own and cost!! I try not to think about it though have learned that things need to have to have a top price that I wont go above and if I wait another one will invariably come along sometime.

[Wullie]

I think the prices today are ( with the odd exception ) more realistic than they were a few years ago. I think that is a good thing. The only people to complain are the ones sucked into paying silly money some time back and now find their programmes going for less that they paid for them . I am loving it.
Example 1949 Sunderland v Motherwell £120 two years ago.
I bought for £40 last week..

[martino]

It was not a buyers market at Sheffield auction today and prices for most lots were very good if not over the top in some cases!

[Wullie]

martino wrote:

It was not a buyers market at Sheffield auction today and prices for most lots were very good if not over the top in some cases!

and don't i know it