Lost post/Parcels.......who is responsible

[Tintowner]

I am sure there have been threads about this before, but who is responsible when items go astray.

Ultimately, of course, it is the fault of the Royal Mail, but that cuts no mustard with sites such as ebay., but where do we stand both as a seller and a buyer.

If I am selling, once it is in the hands of the RM, am I still resposible/liable if it doesnt reach its destination. Ok, you could take out Special Delivery and the like, but really, why should you. By paying the standard cost it is basically a contract saying that they will deliver your item to the address.

If I am buying and the seller says he not responsible for the item once it has been posted ... where do I stand if it doesnt arrive. Should the buyer have to chase up any claim.

Where do we stand on refunds, does the seller wait for the proceeds of any claim or does he refund when somebody says their item hasnt arrived.

I (like many on here) use ebay for buying and selling, I have never had any problems over the years, but that has changed over the last four months with three items not reaching their destinations. How long is reasonably acceptable before you issue refunds? ...1, 2, 3 weeks.

I know we can all list our individual terms and conditions on selling an item, but in a lot of cases, some of the stuff I read contravenes ebay selling policies.

Any input would be beneficial.

[Wullie]

The seller is responsible . It is not Royal Mail's fault, if the address is incorrect, if the item is underpaid or badly packaged. A certificate of postage costs nothing and gives proof of posting. For valuble items over £30 Special delivery should be used. If someone claims they did not receive a package you sent, and you failed to get a certificate, then repay them as you are wasting your time arguing.

[Floor Pie]

Yes its the sellers responsabilty, but im not sure where buyers stand on ebay if the seller states that is your own risk to send standard an you dont choose recorded. I recieved a broken item from germany recentley and took a while to get a refund from the seller as he swore blind its up to me to fill in a royal mail claim form!
On a side note i recieved a pair of sunglasses from a seller today instead of a coin i purchased lol . Will be interesting to see what he says.

[Tintowner]

So, if I send a parcel, it is correctly addressed, it is paid for in the correct price category, it is well packaged and I get a certificate of posting........if the Royal Mail lose it in transit.....it is still my fault

The thread wasnt about having a go at the Royal Mail, it was about how we find common ground as both a buyer and seller if items dont arrive......which seems to be happening more and more.

[Auchinleckian]

Wullie, I appreciate what you're saying, but Tintowner has a very valid point about expecting Royal Mail to be able to deliver their part of the deal once you've paid them to do it. If I'm going on a bus from A to B, say 100 miles away and far from my normal travel routes, I wouldn't expect to pay a premium to the driver to ensure he doesn't get lost! That's exactly what you're saying we should do with items costing over £30 by sending them special delivery.
I fully accept the logic of badly packaged and not the correct price being paid. However, I take all my items into my local Post Office, have them weighed, and always receive proof of posting. That's me having completed my part of the contract. Is it too much to expect Royal mail to do similar?

[Wullie]

The point is unless you get some sort of proof of delivery, either, certificate of postage, recorded delivery or special delivery , then how can anyone possibly blame the post office. I mean, i posted a million pound two weeks ago, it never arrived, please compensate me...

[Tintowner]

Wullie wrote:

The point is unless you get some sort of proof of delivery, either, certificate of postage, recorded delivery or special delivery , then how can anyone possibly blame the post office. I mean, i posted a million pound two weeks ago, it never arrived, please compensate me...

Can I ask the question then!......why do we have post boxes?

Post boxes dont give you any sort of proof that you have put anything in it, millions of letters are put in them every day, all without any evidence of postage.

I wonder what would happen if all the owners of these millions of letters decided that thet would instead go and get some form of receipt of postage......the system (ie the post offices) would go into meltdown.

It has been known for items sent by recorded/ special delivery to go missing.

I sent a letter of complaint last year to the RM, asking why an item took 49 days to reach me by second class, I never received an answer despite using recorded delivery.

[Wullie]

it is convenient to always blame the post office. The other day i opened a pillar box and out fell an envelope addressed to mum. Now that person will curse the post office, slag them all off as useless etc etc. her mum will do the same. Her famlily will tell their friends how her mum never got her card that was posted. In the end a dozen people will have a story of how terrible the post office is. And who's fault was it ?
A gambler will always tell you when he has a win. He'll not mention every time he does not. Likewise, a person will tell you a letter never turned up, they never say anything about the thousands that did.

[oldbolt]

Floor Pie wrote:

Yes its the sellers responsabilty, but im not sure where buyers stand on ebay if the seller states that is your own risk to send standard an you dont choose recorded.

They are terms that the seller can't enforce.If they sell on ebay using paypal they will lose any dispute if they can't prove the buyer received the item.

[Auchinleckian]

Wullie, much as I can understand your viewpoint as an employee of a much maligned company, I still don't have any idea how and why Royal Mail can not fulfil it's duty to ensure something gets delivered when I already go through all the processes you mention? If my items are weighed,and proof of postage received, why can they not guarantee it's safe delivery without wanting to charge me another £5 for special delivery? It's absolutely ludicrous, and it plays on people's insecurities. It's raking money in hand over fist because it can't carry out the service that people have paid them to do.

Also, see below. Even if you use special delivery the b@st@rds still can't guarantee delivery, they want you to pay yet more money into their coffers for extra insurance! If someone is paying extra to "guarantee next day delivery" why on earth can't Royal Mail's insurance cover the cost of any losses? It's a complete and utter money making con. Rant over, I'm going to bed now...

If you use Special Delivery™ Next Day then your mail is automatically covered for up to £500 compensation. If you’re sending an item that’s more valuable then we advise that you increase your cover to £1,000 or £2,500, in the unlikely event that it is lost or damaged in transit. For a small additional fee you can insure your item for up to £2,500

[Kickoff3pm]

I think some people need to spend some time on the royal mail site. It's pointless arguing or even taking advice from other places. For example Special delivery for items over £30 ? why ? all you are promised with special delivery is a faster delivery nothing else. Compensation for lost items using first class delivery is market value if lower then £46 or £46 if market value is higher. Sending a £46 pound item special delivery is a waste of at least £5.00.

So I suggest people go to Royal Mail.

Now for responsibility ? it's simple really. Till the seller gives it to Royal Mail and get the evidence of them taking responsibility then it's the sell who bares the responsibility. If the mis-address it that too is down to them.

Under paid postage ? that's down to the seller.

Failure to insure ? well if the buyer was given the option and they choose not to then that down to them.

All the above is also dependent of the conditions applied by the site if not ebay. If a site only send normal post then they need to get the buyer's agreement to that risk, if they down they should cover any shortfall in compo handed out by RM.

It gets tricky with other postal services, and also I understand things like mob-phones are not covered by any compensation at all by Royal Mail so you have read up on things like that.

My advice for ebay ? don't use it used kickoff3pm.co.uk instead you get a better class of person on there.

[Tynie Topics]

Wullie wrote:

The point is unless you get some sort of proof of delivery, either, certificate of postage, recorded delivery or special delivery , then how can anyone possibly blame the post office. I mean, i posted a million pound two weeks ago, it never arrived, please compensate me...

Because it is the Post Office/Royal Mail/Consignia or whatever they are called, that have lost it?

If you under pay an item, it still reaches the recipitents local sorting office and they have to pay the extra charges to get the item or it is returned.

If it is badly packaged the item should still reach the recipitent in some form if the address remains intact, although no guarantee that the contents are all still there.

If you address it to "mum" then you are a moron and probably do not have the capability to claim compensation.

I guess what a lot of people wonder about is why letters which meet all the neccesary criteria for trouble free delivery still go missing.

That said, [touch wood] I very rarely have a problem with lost post and on the whole I think they do a very good job.
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[clsyorkshire]

Royal Mail would try harder if they had some kind of competition, but they do have a bit of a hold over the market!

[ashburton-grove]

Does this help?

http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/sell/item-not-received.html
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[1980Cossie]

If the buyer paid with paypal and opens a dispute you have to put a tracking number in once a claim against you has been opened, if you sent it 1st class your not covered and will lose every time, if you have a tracking number to put in all paypal will do is check for delivery confirmation, if there is no confirmation its up to the sender to claim from the Royal mail but if the item had any value and you only sent it 1st class or 2nd class you won't get any money back from the Royal Mail because if you send something with any value whatsoever you must send it with a tracking number otherwise your not covered. Basically if your a seller and you dont have a tracking number your screwed.

[oldbolt]

Yes, it's up to the seller to get proof of posting for everything they send if they want to be refunded.Proof of posting is free and covers amounts up to £46, above £46 it has to be paid for.

I came across an ebay problem when I sold a rare CD (sales price over £200) to a buyer in America.I hadn't looked into the paypal/Royal Mail rules properly and assumed if I took out the Royal Mail overseas option with Royal Mail insurance I would be covered.I paid RM something like £10 for insurance on top of the postage.
After sending the item I discovered that paypal would need an online signature to rule in my favour if the buyer said the item hadn't arrived , however Royal Mail's US partner didn't provide that service.Royal Mail would say online that the parcel had been signed for at the US address but not provide the signature.That meant if the buyer said the item hadn't arrived paypal would refund the buyer but Royal Mail wouldn't pay me anything in compensation because their US partner had said the item was delivered.
Basically Royal Mail can't be used to send anything of value to America if the buyer paid by paypal because of paypal's online signature policy.

[Wullie]

Special delivery is worth every penny and is cheap compared to couriers. Special delivery is treated completely different to all other mail and believe me, anything of value should always be sent special delivery.
On another note, i have lost ONE letter sent to me in TEN YEARS. pretty amazing really.

[Auchinleckian]

Are postmen the same as lorry drivers, Wullie? Love their jobs, won't hear anything bad said about it, and actually take their holidays doing work related thingies?

[Wullie]

Auchinleckian wrote:

Are postmen the same as lorry drivers, Wullie? Love their jobs, won't hear anything bad said about it, and actually take their holidays doing work related thingies?

what's a holiday ?

[Catcon55]

Am I tempting faith by saying that so far, I've only had great service from Royal Mail?!

Really quick delivery to Ireland and absolutely no problems so far.






I've jinxed it now, haven't I!