Footballprogrammes.com & Sportingold

[Rafehod]

Hi All

Forgive my ignorance here but are the 2 above the same company? the reason I ask is that they are 2 units from each other on the same industrial estate and just seems to be too much of a coincidence.

I am thinking Sportingold could be the auction arm of their business, unless it is pure coincidence.

[Posh1959]

No connection whatsoever, apart from Dave Allen at Programme Promotions (Footballprogrammes.com) no doubt bids on lots at Sportingold

[Rafehod]

Posh1959 wrote:

No connection whatsoever, apart from Dave Allen at Programme Promotions (Footballprogrammes.com) no doubt bids on lots at Sportingold

I wish I was that close to an auction, since the demise of Methuselah in Marton there is nothing in the North East, unless I am missing something

[martino]

Rafehod wrote:

Posh1959 wrote: No connection whatsoever, apart from Dave Allen at Programme Promotions (Footballprogrammes.com) no doubt bids on lots at Sportingold I wish I was that close to an auction, since the demise of Methuselah in Marton there is nothing in the North East, unless I am missing something

It is the same in the North West - not much sporting auction action here. Alec Bohannan(?) used to do a regular auction but he stopped a few years ago.

Everything seems to be Birmingham southwards - why?

I know of people who, due to the costs, feel it is not cost effective to head south with their wallet. They buy some online but they would definitely bid for more if they could see and feel the goods.

There must be an opening for one of the regular sporting auctions to do even a one off auction 'up North. So come on guys take a chance and head north.

[Pete’s Picture Palace]

Rafehod wrote:

Hi All Forgive my ignorance here but are the 2 above the same company? the reason I ask is that they are 2 units from each other on the same industrial estate and just seems to be too much of a coincidence. I am thinking Sportingold could be the auction arm of their business, unless it is pure coincidence.

No connection but having visited, I confirm they have neighbouring warehouses.

[manchesterunitedman1]

martino wrote:

Rafehod wrote: Posh1959 wrote: No connection whatsoever, apart from Dave Allen at Programme Promotions (Footballprogrammes.com) no doubt bids on lots at Sportingold I wish I was that close to an auction, since the demise of Methuselah in Marton there is nothing in the North East, unless I am missing something It is the same in the North West - not much sporting auction action here. Alec Bohannan(?) used to do a regular auction but he stopped a few years ago. Everything seems to be Birmingham southwards - why? I know of people who, due to the costs, feel it is not cost effective to head south with their wallet. They buy some online but they would definitely bid for more if they could see and feel the goods. There must be an opening for one of the regular sporting auctions to do even a one off auction 'up North. So come on guys take a chance and head north.

Dave Goldemann[forum member] tried it and had a couple in Manchester but i suspect continuing to find the lots is the issue. Chris Williams brought it all up North to the Etihad when he sold in the main his Manchester City collection several years ago.

Dave Allen has his fairs once a year at Altrincham and Sheffield but that is it. FSA from Birkenhead prefer to sell from a venue in Luton, Robert Adcock has always sold out of Birmingham and Mullocks, Sportingold from their neck of the woods. All the new kids on the block are well down South. Local auctioneers as Capes Dunn and Brocks have unearthed recent gems from Manchester City/United but to maximise and make it a worthwile venture there has to be a big United collection with City and other Northern clubs involved surely to make it of interest, no point trying to sell an Arsenal OR Tottenham collection up North and without that nucleus it is not going to be viable to be considered.

[Wullie]

My problem with auctions is not the venue, but the dates, always weekdays. I'm sure far more people would attend if they were held at a weekend. Auctions are mainly geared towards dealers as your average collector would have a day job. As others have stated before, why risk a ton of cash for something you can't check out ? I'm not sure why auctions can't be held on a Sunday , after all fairs are. Surely an auction house would hit higher figures if collectors were in attendance rather than just dealers ?

[BAZZABAGGIES]

Im fortunate living in The Midlands, the south and the north are less than 2 hours away. Organisers of fairs and auctions are not going to put time,effort and money up north if no one is going to turn up.

Personally i blame Ebay for spoiling the collectors market i called in a Postcard and cigarette card fair on the way back from Blackpool a few weeks back. There were ten stall holders and four punters in the room and some of the programme fairs over the past few years the attendance has been shocking

[oldbolt]

I'd never heard of Brocks and i see they ceased trading 31 July 2014.
I went to a football programme auction at Capes Dunn last October which had about 350 different lots of mostly European cup finals, uefa finals, world club championships early league cup finals etc all from one man's collection.There were 5 or 6 punters in the auction room most of the time and most lots were Dave Allen (who was at the auction) bidding v a telephone bidder.I picked up a few European finals for my collection at lower than catalogue prices and one mixed lot which went un-noticed and i've made about £400 profit on. (nice to pay £60odd for it without Dave Allen noticing it lol)
I heard the auctioneers saying the sellers family would be disappointed with the prices reached.It was definitely a day for buyers and with hindsight i should have come back with more programmes.

[martino]

QUOTE .............. but to maximise and make it a worthwile venture there has to be a big United collection with City and other Northern clubs involved surely to make it of interest, no point trying to sell an Arsenal OR Tottenham collection up North and without that nucleus it is not going to be viable to be considered. UNQUOTE

So Man Utd programmes will sell down south but Arsenal and Tottenham wont sell up north?

[kcs]

martino wrote:

So Man Utd programmes will sell down south but Arsenal and Tottenham wont sell up north?

Think your missing the point that MM1 is trying to make, for an auction to have people bidding in the room the lots in the auction would need to be desirable in that geographical location.

To attract people to a northern based fair you are more than likely need to include northern collectible teams, and the same with a southern based auction.

A fair in Southampton wouldn't do well (in the room) if the content was mostly north east based teams (for example).

I'm guessing that the location is chosen by the auction companies to get the best level of room bidding. Most of the auctions that I'm aware of nowadays use the internet so decent items regardless of location will sell.

You will of course always get local people bidding on further afield teams if prices remain low. E.g. I would not normally go after a Manchester United pre war home but if the price was at below average price I would bid, obviously in hope of profit/swap deals in the future.
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[manchesterunitedman1]

martino wrote:

QUOTE .............. but to maximise and make it a worthwile venture there has to be a big United collection with City and other Northern clubs involved surely to make it of interest, no point trying to sell an Arsenal OR Tottenham collection up North and without that nucleus it is not going to be viable to be considered. UNQUOTE So Man Utd programmes will sell down south but Arsenal and Tottenham wont sell up north?

100% correct-read on as I reiterate:

MANCHESTER UNITED will sell anywhere because of the fact they have the most collectors who are active all over the country, three of the biggest deepest pockets are in the South for United, Tottenham collectors of which two in particular have most stuff but would send their "emissaries" to travel to wherever to secure items other mere mortals would depending on what they needed can visit, they can get a phone line, they can get a condition report with images[as i do in many cases], Arsenal has mature collectors who have most stuff, same would apply to those who do not have such depth.

There is a collection of Arsenal programmes/memorabilia at Sportingold next week-do you think he should have held the auction in Lancashire/Cheshire/Yorkshire with over 300++ Arsenal lots or in Bucks where a good number of Arsenal collectors reside?, in fact prices are so low now for Arsenal pre-war they were not enthusiastic in even having much success, but i reckon if they take it up to Barrow or Halifax or even to Leeds then that will make a big difference-you think?.

2 weeks or so ago FSA auctioned 800+ lots of Tottenham, FSA is based in Birkenhead on the Wirral-should Andy have done better to have his auction there or in Luton where he sells everything and has determined for the same reasons i have already stated that as MU is the biggest sellers you can find collectors everywhere in the UK but despite being massive clubs such as Arsenal/Tottenham/Chelsea and every other Southern or Midland based club will have more support and collectors based further South for obvious reasons. FSA sold a massive MU collection in 2013 2 lots of which with commissions both sold over £10k each and the buyer of both is from Cheshire, i went to that auction too and spent a nice few quid but only after i had a condition report on the 30 lots i had an interest in, a long way to go to view poor quality rubbish but modern day technology allows us all to view the goods, warts an all before deciding to traipse there or sit on the phone and bid or use the internet.

I have said what i think is a fact-you have said the opposite-we beg to differ, therefore no need to debate it-i have already moved on.

[martino]

MM1 - I do not think I said the opposite, I merely raised the question - spot the question mark?

[manchesterunitedman1]

martino wrote:

MM1 - I do not think I said the opposite, I merely raised the question - spot the question mark?

and i answered with facts to support my original statement.

The only question mark is that you have shown to ask such a question or respond with a question mark that you have absolutely no concept of modern day buying and selling to have even posed such a comment. Ta Ra i am bored now

[BAZZABAGGIES]

I was at a general sale last week and one lot of 12 1966/7 Manchester United home programmes went for £95..

[manchesterunitedman1]

BAZZABAGGIES wrote:

I was at a general sale last week and one lot of 12 1966/7 Manchester United home programmes went for £95..

maybe because it had the rare postponed one in there, didnt you KNOW that-what a rick as it has sold upwards of £1800!

[sportingold]

Chris Williams from Sportingold here. To answer the questions raised, first of all we have no business connection with David Allen/Football Promotions whatsoever other than that he occasionally takes part in our auctions. He obtained his premises close to us as a result of seeing our location and liking the area but he is most certainly not linked to us.
We would happily consider auctions in the North, we are in the North regularly and have had two auctions at Manchester City. However it does raise the question as to what items the raisers of this question would like to see sold there. Neither auction was well attended and indeed even in the South, there are rarely more than fifty people present at the auction, throughout the day, as times seem to have changed and most people either bid by commission bids or through The-Saleroom which saves their fuel and taking time off work. Obviously , this involves trusting our descriptions to some extent and we do our best with these to put ourselves in the position of potential bidders and answer what they would like to know in the catalogue, but there are space limitations. However one way and the other, most of our auctions attract around 500 bidders taking an active bidding part.
We visit the North and Scotland regularly to discuss with vendors their collections if they are considering selling and we have attended fairs in Altrincham, Preston, Pudsey and Sheffield in the past 12 months and the last three of these were also quite poorly attended.
We hold our auctions during the week because at weekends the teams supported by most collectors are actually playing and few would miss a game to take part in an auction. Even on Sundays, a good number of the Top Premier League teams are playing and these clubs do tend the have the most collectors in terms of numbers and many other collectors watch the games on TV. At our Stokenchurch venue, we are within 800 yards of Junction 5 of the M40 and can be reached from Birmingham quite quickly. I am from the North-West and if we had a large Club specific collection we would certainly consider holding that auction in the North-West but to be financially viable, a minimum sales figure needs to be reached and there are not many individual clubs that are collected well enough for that to be likely. Over the past ten years we have held such auctions for West Ham, Manchester City and Arsenal, but by their very nature, collectors of most other clubs are not interested in these club specific sales as it is not their club and only a few lots would be of interest.
I hope this puts forward our point of view but we will always consider relevant suggestions

[martino]

Chris, Many thanks for your full and detailed comments.

Also, thanks for responding in a civilised manner in response to the question that I raised during this thread; others on this forum should take note.

[sportingold]

Thank you Martino for your kind comments. Much appreciated. Chris