Scottish Independence

[derby1884]

If it is a vote for independence, what happens to the SNP?

Having achieved their ultimate aim, do they disband and reform as another political party?

Actually, what happens to all the political parties? Do we get new ones or are we stuck with the same old?

That's too many questions for a Sunday morning, sorry!
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[Pete’s Picture Palace]

I saw an interesting question in a paper recently.

If Scotland gains independence, what happens if in a few years the Shetland Isles goes for independence from Scotland, and demands what would be a disproportionate (based on current population) or fair (based on historical rights) amount of North Sea Oil?

[Eck]

http://harddawn.com/why-americ.....t-britain/

[Auchinleckian]

Pete’s Picture Palace wrote:

Auchinleckian wrote: As an unabashed socialist I have the following views on the subject. 1. This vote has absolutely nothing to do with nationalism. It's about the ability of a nations population for self determination. 2. Self determination is all about making your politicians accountable to the electorate. In Scotland we have just one Tory MP. The Tory government is therefore not accountable to Scotland. It takes decisions in it's own interests, not those of Scotland. It can not therefore be held accountable in Scotland. 3. This is not anti English as some political commentators, and even folk on here seem to think. It's anti Westminster. The regions of northern England are also of the opinion that they need more autonomy as Westminster relates mainly to London and the south east nowadays, it doesn't represent the country as a whole. 4. If we do get independence I imagine that we will see consensual politics in Scotland. There's absolutely no reason, party politics aside, that a mixture of Labour, SNP, Greens and maybe even Liberals (but not Danny Alexander!) could not form a coalition and use the best political brains to ensure that the Scottish population get a government that is working in their interests. 5. If we don't get independence, I think the Labour Party will suffer greatly in Scotland in forthcoming elections for having shared a common platform with the Tories. The Scottish electorate are not daft. Independence is the obvious vehicle for Scottish people to determine their own future. The world is full of countries that have done similar. I remember as a child being told that "the sun never sets on the Empire" because of how far it extended worldwide. Empire is no more, and it's only oil and gas that keeps us attached to Westminster to fund their illegal wars and austerity measures. Independence? It's a no brainer. Like the Ukraine, South Sudan, Bosnia, ...........

Wrong end of the stick Peter, I was on about the countries who had gained independence from Britain, starting with America. One question that those who wish to retain the Union have ever properly answered is why it's okay to have granted independence to countries right across the globe, but wish to deny the Scots that. Also, why do they think it okay to intervene in Libya and the like so they can determine their own autonomy, but again, not consider Scotland as being worthy of it? Double standards, oil, gas, and the square sausage.

[Pete’s Picture Palace]

Auchinleckian wrote:

Pete’s Picture Palace wrote: Auchinleckian wrote: As an unabashed socialist I have the following views on the subject. 1. This vote has absolutely nothing to do with nationalism. It's about the ability of a nations population for self determination. 2. Self determination is all about making your politicians accountable to the electorate. In Scotland we have just one Tory MP. The Tory government is therefore not accountable to Scotland. It takes decisions in it's own interests, not those of Scotland. It can not therefore be held accountable in Scotland. 3. This is not anti English as some political commentators, and even folk on here seem to think. It's anti Westminster. The regions of northern England are also of the opinion that they need more autonomy as Westminster relates mainly to London and the south east nowadays, it doesn't represent the country as a whole. 4. If we do get independence I imagine that we will see consensual politics in Scotland. There's absolutely no reason, party politics aside, that a mixture of Labour, SNP, Greens and maybe even Liberals (but not Danny Alexander!) could not form a coalition and use the best political brains to ensure that the Scottish population get a government that is working in their interests. 5. If we don't get independence, I think the Labour Party will suffer greatly in Scotland in forthcoming elections for having shared a common platform with the Tories. The Scottish electorate are not daft. Independence is the obvious vehicle for Scottish people to determine their own future. The world is full of countries that have done similar. I remember as a child being told that "the sun never sets on the Empire" because of how far it extended worldwide. Empire is no more, and it's only oil and gas that keeps us attached to Westminster to fund their illegal wars and austerity measures. Independence? It's a no brainer. Like the Ukraine, South Sudan, Bosnia, ........... Wrong end of the stick Peter, I was on about the countries who had gained independence from Britain, starting with America. One question that those who wish to retain the Union have ever properly answered is why it's okay to have granted independence to countries right across the globe, but wish to deny the Scots that. Also, why do they think it okay to intervene in Libya and the like so they can determine their own autonomy, but again, not consider Scotland as being worthy of it? Double standards, oil, gas, and the square sausage.

America, Canada, India, South Africa - well, if you fancy another war and civil war soon after, go for it. It wasn't the wrong end of the stick at all, as it happens.

Scotland isn't beneath England, England doesn't rule or own Scotland from afar - it's called the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland. Scotland isn't a dominion or colony or overseas territory like all the other far-flung places.

[Auchinleckian]

...........but it DOES rule England from afar, and that's the whole crux of the matter. The remoteness of Westminster is light years away from what Scotland votes for, time after time, after time - and that's why I want independence. Not because I have any grudges against the English (I can't have because both my sons are English) but because it doesn't matter who we vote for up here, the party that now gets elected to govern in Westminster is decided by a handful or marginal swing constituencies somewhere in the mythical middle England.

It's the same reason why thousands of others in the north of England are also now questioning whether or not they would be better governed with a more regional administration for exactly the same reason. Their votes don't really count any more.

Forget all about the whole Nationalism thing. If it were about dreams of Braveheart and Bannockburn etc I'd have nothing to do with, nor would many others. As Samuel Johnson famously once said "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel"

We do undeniably have far, far, different needs in Scotland based on income per capita, social requirements, and a totally different culture to what Westminster can provide us with. When they're so cynically not being met it's small wonder that there is a drive for change?

ps You can have the square sausage!

[Pete’s Picture Palace]

I would agree with you if it meant no more Scottish Prime Ministers at Westminster. I'd also repatriate all Scots living in England, including my 86-yr-old neighbour and fellow Palace fan who served in the Royal Navy and has pictures of Her Majesty on his staircase.

Have I missed something about a square sausage?

[Auchinleckian]

...and if you repatriated the Scots (which I assume was said tongue in cheek?) where would you stop? Corby would be a ghost town. They don't have a vote anyway, it's about who governs Scotland, nowhere else.

The square sausage I really could do without, it's minging. I'm about the only person north of the border who doesn't like it, but despite it's status up here, I'd be prepared to relinquish it for Home Rule. Can't be fairer than that, surely?

[Drvonshineck]

Pete’s Picture Palace wrote:

I would agree with you if it meant no more Scottish Prime Ministers at Westminster. I'd also repatriate all Scots living in England, including my 86-yr-old neighbour and fellow Palace fan who served in the Royal Navy and has pictures of Her Majesty on his staircase. Have I missed something about a square sausage?

Why would repatriate Scots?

My partners family are from the West Indies and have lived in England since babies would they be sent back under your repatriation scheme?

Note they consider themselves English despite facing overt racism, yet when they go "home" on hoilday, they are treated as English which has its own complications.

Further I think you are too concerned with Scotland for the Scottish and England for the English, quite frankly I would have no problem with an English leader in Scotland if they had Scottish interests at heart.

Why would you?

[Pete’s Picture Palace]

I'd have no problem at all with a Scottish leader in England if they had half a brain. An English leader in Scotland is unlikely though, surely, but that would be of no concern of mine were it to happen, although it would bring a smile to my face.

I was not being serious about repatriation of Scots (and never mentioned anyone else) and would fight for equality and justice at every opportunity, as I have all my life. Let me get that straight.

[manchesterunitedman1]

ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can we get back to tribal warfare, the collector hatred, the meaningfull debates aboiut rsting staples and second hand stamps , steaming open envelopes, recycling every form of postage, the jealousies, the bitcy behavior, the bad manners, the sarcasm, the OTT zealots!

I for one do not give a monkey's where ur from what your colour is and all the rest of it but if you want a political debating society then may i politely suggest that you use some other form of forum as this one aint available for all that kind of stuff.

Anyone who takes any offence at my comments here, i honestly do not give a flying "fig"

Now then let me round up the gang, You there Treble c'mon now send in some email about staples or paper clips, you know get some abuse hurled at the Oldham fella you like to play tennis with, Bazza i will get a couple of new guys to come and and you can drop their strides and give them up the rear as you do-wonderfull whose next oh i could show some images of the widest selection on flickr and i could say now 2.3 million views and piss off some other jealous tossers-yep i can feel the heckles arising from Dundee to Didcot Penzance to whereever else-so please please please can we get back to back biting and bitching and calling each other names and all the liberals on here can eff off so that should get the balls rolling, hurry up hurry up.................

[Auchinleckian]

Get off the Scottish section you Mancunian glory hunter!

[manchesterunitedman1]

Auchinleckian wrote:

Get off the Scottish section you Mancunian glory hunter!

John-you never disappoint! i had you down as 3rd favourite to respond quickly, the only difference is your not Scottish either!

outside lookin in-short story long-i do not care if u unhitched it and let drift or stop where it is either way we Anglish[well just me then] gave up on the rest of the United Kingdom years ago when they failed to send their best players to the football league, so that nowadays no more Denis Laws, Cliff Jones, Kenny D, Georgie Bests types hardly ever gonna show up but Newcastle must have the same theory with them being twin towned with France these days.

[Gorgie JT]

Tynie Topics wrote:

Gorgie JT wrote: Despite this level of ignorance. My vote will be NO Though last bit is correct,this is all about wee eck . and yeah england will always be a plook on our arse This is not "all about wee eck", it has nothing to do with him. It is about Scotland governing itself as an Independent nation.

nothing to do with him!

Tynie..its all about him,its very much self interest



SALMOND does not speak for me and the majority of my Scottish friends.
That will soon become evident.

[Drvonshineck]

Gorgie JT wrote:

Tynie Topics wrote: Gorgie JT wrote: Despite this level of ignorance. My vote will be NO Though last bit is correct,this is all about wee eck . and yeah england will always be a plook on our arse This is not "all about wee eck", it has nothing to do with him. It is about Scotland governing itself as an Independent nation. nothing to do with him! Tynie..its all about him,its very much self interest SALMOND does not speak for me and the majority of my Scottish friends. That will soon become evident.

But we are not voting for him to be first minister indefinitely.

I have no love for Salmond but that don't mean I would forgo independence, that's absurd.

Further if Scotland becomes independent SNP are more than likely going to break up as a political force as they main agenda has been achieved and a lot of the members will defect to other parties.

Thus if you don't like Salmond vote for Independence as it the quickest way to end his career as a politican.

Out of interest which would you prefer as leader of Scotland Thatcher, Major, Blair, Brown, Cameron, Clegg, Milliband or Salmond?

[BAZZABAGGIES]

Rab Nesbit

[Tynie Topics]

Gorgie JT wrote:

nothing to do with him! Tynie..its all about him,its very much self interest SALMOND does not speak for me and the majority of my Scottish friends. That will soon become evident.

If it's all about Alex Salmond, why are people of all political persuasions voting Yes? Why are Labour party members voting Yes?

If people vote No because of Alex Salmond, I just shake my head in disbelief.
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[BAZZABAGGIES]

Alex Salmon has the personality of a fish.

Do you really want independance you already receive free subsides off the ENGLISH tax payers.

[Tynie Topics]

BAZZABAGGIES wrote:

Alex Salmon has the personality of a fish. Do you really want independance you already receive free subsides off the ENGLISH tax payers.

Can you please leave this topic alone from your juvenile and frankly questionable contributions.
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[pastpirate]

BAZZABAGGIES wrote:

Alex Salmon has the personality of a fish. Do you really want independance you already receive free subsides off the ENGLISH tax payers.

Bazz.

This is the 2nd time that you are being asked to leave this alone.
You are not adding to the thread but just annoying people.

I have my thoughts on this subject but as I don't know enough about the subject I have kept out of it.

I think it may be best if you do the same.

Cheers, Jamie.
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