Sportingold

[tcno10]

Overlap wrote,Hi, wonder if someone can assist. For first time I sort of followed the Sportingold auction on computer at work but kept dropping out on internet connection. However am sure there were items where the hammer dropped and the item "sold" - but looking at results list today there are lot of these items listed as £0 ie not sold?

38 out of the first 100 lots now recorded as unsold yet hammer fell on every lot.
Not once did I hear the auctioneer mention ' passed ' or we will have to see the vendor's instruction,

[sharrowblade]

tcno10 wrote:

38 out of the first 100 lots now recorded as unsold yet hammer fell on every lot. Not once did I hear the auctioneer mention ' passed ' or we will have to see the vendor's instruction,

Yes, why is that? What could possibly,... possibly be the explanation?

[Vintage Steve]

More than likely the item never reached the reserve set by the vendor. If there's a reserve on an item, which is usually the lower estimate , the auctioneer usually starts one increment down . If there are no takers, the auctioneer may try to induce bidding by making a bid up while looking at an empty chair or a vacant area of the room.Of course you don't see this when you're bidding on the internet, but I promise you it goes on. I don't see anything wrong with it, because he's only trying to get the bid passed the reserve.However, I have been to auctions where the auctioneer, or even the vendor, deliberately bids an item up to get a better price, which is very wrong.

[tommy]

Vintage Steve wrote:

However, I have been to auctions where the auctioneer, or even the vendor, deliberately bids an item up to get a better price, which is very wrong.

What auction was that then?

[Vintage Steve]

tommy wrote:

Vintage Steve wrote: However, I have been to auctions where the auctioneer, or even the vendor, deliberately bids an item up to get a better price, which is very wrong. What auction was that then?

I'm not going to name names on this forum Tommy, but there's a great deal of 'dodgy' goings on in many auction houses. Don't forget though, it even occurs on ebay with shill bidding.I'm afraid real bargains at major auction houses are few and far between now, but can still be got at small provincial auctions, especially those not yet on the internet.

[tcno10]

vintagesteve wrote
If there are no takers, the auctioneer may try to induce bidding by making a bid up while looking at an empty chair or a vacant area of the room.Of course you don't see this when you're bidding on the internet, but I promise you it goes on. I don't see anything wrong with it, because he's only trying to get the bid passed the reserve.However, I have been to auctions where the auctioneer, or even the vendor, deliberately bids an item up to get a better price, which is very wrong.

Steve - what is the difference ? as both examples are the same - or I am being slow and simple again.

[Vintage Steve]

tcno10 wrote:

vintagesteve wrote If there are no takers, the auctioneer may try to induce bidding by making a bid up while looking at an empty chair or a vacant area of the room.Of course you don't see this when you're bidding on the internet, but I promise you it goes on. I don't see anything wrong with it, because he's only trying to get the bid passed the reserve.However, I have been to auctions where the auctioneer, or even the vendor, deliberately bids an item up to get a better price, which is very wrong. Steve - what is the difference ? as both examples are the same - or I am being slow and simple again.

Sorry, I probably worded it a little wrong.What I'm saying is that I believe it's OK for the auctioneer to take 'ghost' bids in order to get the price up to the reserve, but if there are no takers then the item should remain unsold, as it appears in many of the Sportingold lots. However, if by accepting 'ghost' bids real bidding is induced, there should be no more 'ghost bidding to hike the price.To put it simply,an item should be sold once legitimate bidding has ceased and the reserve has been been reached. Unfortunately, I have been to a number of auctions where there is only one bidder bidding, but a ghost bidder is introduced by the auctioneer to hike the price and of course to make more commision for the auction house.

A little lesson for bidders, is never to keep your hand up all of the time, no matter how desperately you want the item. This is an auctioneer's dream, as he'll know that even if there's just you that's bdding, you're going to pay top whack. On the other hand, I've also known the auctioneer to get too greedy, push things too far and end up selling the item to the ghost bidder.

[sharrowblade]

Surely, if the auctioneer asks a price, and a bid is received, then if that bid hasn't reached the reserve price set by the vendor, then surely the auctioneer should state that unfortunately the reserve hasn't been met, and the item passed.

However, as has been stated this didn't happen, on the hammer, item 'sold'. If it is the case, that all these items were unsold due to reserve not being met, all I can say there must be a lot of venders being misled on valuations or they are simply being greedy b******s

As tcno10 and myself are just simple northerners, can any of the sportingold banner bearers explain this?

[ashburton-grove]

I've been to plenty of auctions, not just football programmes, and it's really depressing seeing the auctioneer start the bidding at say £50, then drop it to £40, £30 and when finally someone bids and there are no bids after that, he says, sorry not met the reserve. What was the point to all that. Start the auction at the reserve and if there's no bids it doesn't sell.
Why do people want to know if it sold or not?
Also the auctioneer does not influence the price of auction lots, that is down to the bidders and if they get carried away then thats their choice.
I have seen ghost bidders and a friend of mine said the auctioneer was "bouncing bids off the walls". We left soon after.
_________________
"We have a problem with Sol Campbell" Arsene Wenger. 04/02/06

[Vintage Steve]

sharrowblade wrote:

Surely, if the auctioneer asks a price, and a bid is received, then if that bid hasn't reached the reserve price set by the vendor, then surely the auctioneer should state that unfortunately the reserve hasn't been met, and the item passed. However, as has been stated this didn't happen, on the hammer, item 'sold'. If it is the case, that all these items were unsold due to reserve not being met, all I can say there must be a lot of venders being misled on valuations or they are simply being greedy b******s As tcno10 and myself are just simple northerners, can any of the sportingold banner bearers explain this?

I don't think vendors are being misled, but many have unrealistic expectations of the true value of their items.It's exactly the same in antiques as it is in football memorabilia, where vendors are looking at their Miller's price guides, or in the case of football programmes, those price guides that PM have been issuing for a number of years, and not realising that the true values are somewhat less than stated.

I honesty believe that all items that enter auction should be unreserved and sold at the price they fetch. With all the main auctions now selling on the internet as well as in the room, the price that is ultimately reached is the true value at any given time. One of the problems in football memorabilia auctions is that the items being entered are unsold lots from dealers, and collectors who wish to liquidise their assets, selling the programmes that they purchased when prices were much higher. Both of course want to at least recoup what they've paid for these programmes, which is very difficult in these economic times and with the deduction of commission from the sale price.

An auction house has a very difficult balancing act in order to please both the vendor and enable the purchaser to buy at the price he/she wants.Unless a lotting fee is charged, any unsold item makes absolutely nothing for the auctioneer, and in fact incurrs handling and administration costs. The real 'cream' for the auction house is when they acquire a large unreserved private collection or deceased estate, which is of course guaranteed to sell .

[Auchinleckian]

Vintage Steve and Ashburton have both got it right in effect. I'd like to see bidding start off at the reserve, if there is one, and if not item isn't sold. Simple.
As has been noted though, the reserves are set by the vendor, not Sportingold, and these prices are most definitely on the wane. Not only were there a lot of unsold lots, very few out of the 1600 plus lots actually went above the higher end of the guide price. Some people have realigned prices, the majority haven't. That's life though, whether it's at auction houses, ebays, dealers lists, and on here - where there are often run of the mill items advertised as "p.m. offers to..." instead of people having the courage of their convictions and just asking for a price. It's not difficult, and if you get someone saying "I'd like to buy it but.." the vendor then has a choice to make, sell it for a wee bit less or keep it, and probably never sell it?
Lastly, it's al very well to criticise vendors for having reserves which people think too high, but conversely, there's been more than a few postings on here about people getting a bargain at said auction. It all comes down to whether you're buying or selling.

[tcno10]

there is a big hitter on ebay - he's a fan of one of big London clubs,sells a lot of items and some get re-listed a few weeks later though he might have more than one copy

does he employ a ghost bidder do you think ?

if he does - then whats the difference with Thursdays sale .

[sharrowblade]

ashburton-grove wrote:

Why do people want to know if it sold or not? Also the auctioneer does not influence the price of auction lots

Well the taxman might want to know

Honest ones don't, the rest.........................

[Wullie]

At the moment, it is a buyers market. No doubt about that. As people have said, sellers want to(at least) get what they paid for their programmes a few years ago. In the present climate, that is not going to happen, no matter how attractive the items are. So they put a min . bid and if it don't sell, then they hang on to it. It's a battle of wits at the moment, but bargins are out there. Happy days for buyers lol