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Pablo2019
Joined: 07 Jul 2019 Posts: 141
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Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 4:13 pm
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This is the strangest thread ever, what on earth is going on? |
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HM_WBA
Joined: 30 Jan 2013 Posts: 9
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Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 4:32 pm
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This is a con. M60 have been delinquent throughout, ignoring e-mails, holding onto cash, taking months to deliver. Now they go bust and claim they have made complete refunds. That is a blatant lie. "If not, contact your credit card company" -- and if you used a debit card? Theft, pure and simple. |
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Dorking
Joined: 05 Feb 2010 Posts: 2421
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Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:27 am
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M60 operated what is a very difficult service to do.
Making a profit margin on current (modern) programmes is very difficult because once a game has happened, they are all over ebay.
Getting people to buy at circa £7 (once you add on postage) is mainly going to interest to people wanting to pre-order.
Modern programmes are usually thick and heavy to post, hence the usual cost (and that is with a pretty small profit margin)
So unless you are obtaining the programmes at a discount somehow (bulk from publishers?) it's a tough business to make a profit on, particularly if people claim copies never arrived or arrived damaged (which does matter for this product).
Big Match programmes (Finals, Internationals etc) might be an area where discounts can be obtained for bulk purchase, but I suspect many clubs just sell at cover price, and so margins for reselling are tiny.
Competition from ebay is fierce - for example at Arsenal some people (fans and stewards) can get hold of plentiful amounts of spare programmes in hospitality 'for free' - ie everybody gets one, and there are piles left over afterwards too as you leave. So those programmes can be sold at very competitive prices compared to the cover price. And also as soon as a game is played, some people will sell programmes alongside the teamsheet, making that a more attractive purchase.
M60s niche was print from digital. All of their print from digital programmes that I got were well produced, glossy and pretty much as good as the real thing. And certainly as good as you could get considering with digotal only clubs, there is no 'real' programme to hunt down a copy of.
The challenge with print from digital is having reasonable production turnaround times. You want to get as many orders in as possible, but still get the item out to people pretty quickly. People don't want to wait months, and be chasing, or even wondering if it is lost in the post etc, so good communication should be vital for this sort of service.
Of course if you are trying to organise print from digital, it must be a faff, every week probably a dozen different issues, all needing printing in different quantities.
Printaprogramme do it very well, fast turnaround, and you can order as little as 1 copy.
Speed, reliablility as as important as the quality of the item itself of course.
I wouldn't like to speculate on the reasons for M60 calling it a day, there are probably multiple reasons.
I do believe it is an incredibly tough business, very hard work. Long hours a killer. |
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colchestersid
Joined: 08 Mar 2009 Posts: 687
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Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:44 am
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It's a difficult one
On the one hand I sympathise with anyone who has lost money here
On the other I still think that 99.99% of programme collecting transactions "work" and that the occasional loss is to be expected. In 40 years of collecting I have only been stiffed twice - one was a £12 programme which never arrived and the other was a ticket I bought from Italy (£100 or so) which, when I got round to looking closely, was obviously a reproduction.
So, two duff transactions out of maybe 10,000 programmes & tickets bought and sold, I'm pretty happy with that.
M60 doesn't feel like Andy Lane revisited, I think they did their best and ended up losing money - when that happens you'll get creditors but, given the type of programmes they were selling, I doubt any one collector is likely to be seriously out of pocket
Doesn't make it right of course but doesn't feel like a con either |
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Tynie Topics
Joined: 26 Nov 2009 Posts: 3509
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Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 12:46 pm
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HM_WBA wrote: |
This is a con. M60 have been delinquent throughout, ignoring e-mails, holding onto cash, taking months to deliver. Now they go bust and claim they have made complete refunds. That is a blatant lie. "If not, contact your credit card company" -- and if you used a debit card? Theft, pure and simple. |
Just on this particular point, if a refund has been issued and not received, your credit card company can raise a chargeback to get your money back for non receipt of goods.
If you paid by debit card, your bank can't do anything at all and it's upto the vendor to sort it out. _________________ https://www.flickr.com/photos/footballprogrammes/albums |
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martino
Joined: 21 Jun 2011 Posts: 2166 Location: Beautiful downtown Goostrey, Cheshire
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Tynie Topics
Joined: 26 Nov 2009 Posts: 3509
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Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 3:44 pm
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HM_WBA
Joined: 30 Jan 2013 Posts: 9
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Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 4:57 pm
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That's very useful re the debit card.
The amounts are not that large, but it is the principle. M60 just take in pdfs and pay a printer to print them. It's not rocket science. They pay the printer and you get the programme, or they don't, and you get a refund. Best of all, they get all the cash in advance and then decide to print or not. It's not just incompetence on their part, it's dishonesty. |
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Retrosmith
Joined: 28 Apr 2009 Posts: 78
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Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:48 pm
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M60 programmes from the outset has been awful. 4 months for one programme and some of the excuses on the website were pure garbage. If people were ill that is fair enough but most I suspect excuses for an inexcusable lack of customer service from a piss poor company. If anybody wants evidence more than happy to provide some of the of lame excuses I got from them. Most emails to be fair remained unanswered but got an occasional reply when I pushed but always more bullshit and false promises that failed to materialise. Lets hope we can all find a more reliable honest company going forward for e-programme printing as these were only ever jokers. Still awaiting my Scarborough v Grantham programme I ordered and paid for 10 weeks ago as an example of the 14 day delivery promise...... |
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sharrowblade Forum Moderator
Joined: 03 Jul 2009 Posts: 3598 Location: Beautiful Downtown Bramall Lane
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Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2021 10:12 am
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I must say that I'e never had any problems with M60 programmes.
However, I am still waiting for 2 x Swansea v Sheffield United which were ordered in early August a week before the game, I make that 90 days _________________ http://www.flickr.com/photos/sharrowblade/sets
A Sheffield United Programme guide |
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Super Hoopy
Joined: 19 Apr 2021 Posts: 92 Location: London
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Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2021 10:34 am
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I must say that I think I must've been one of the very lucky ones when it comes to using M60.
In the past 16 months I ordered four programmes from them, one was delayed for a few weeks but all arrived in the end of the quality you would associate with the producing clubs.
I feel sorry for those that are out of pocket and hope that a fruitful resolution will eventually take place. |
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RIKERBCFC
Joined: 22 Mar 2016 Posts: 188
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Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2021 9:12 am
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Web site has gone. |
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se20blue
Joined: 21 Jul 2014 Posts: 853
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Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2021 10:17 am
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How many forum members have received refunds for items not supplied ? _________________ Ipswich Town programmes required,please message me if you are able to help
9/2/46 Norwich City A
29/3/47 Port Vale A |
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RIKERBCFC
Joined: 22 Mar 2016 Posts: 188
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Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2021 10:35 am
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No refund yet being dealt with by my credit card company as of last Wednesday. |
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HM_WBA
Joined: 30 Jan 2013 Posts: 9
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Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2021 9:30 pm
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That's what I mean about a con. There are no refunds because he has pocketed the cash and not delivered the goods. |
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PaulRStoke
Joined: 01 Jan 2012 Posts: 139 Location: Stoke-on-Trent
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Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2021 1:40 pm
Post subject: M60 refunds |
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RIKERBCFC wrote: |
No refund yet being dealt with by my credit card company as of last Wednesday. |
Was your order enough to qualify for a Section 75 refund, or are your company dealing with amounts lower than £100?
My refund would not be covered by Section 75
Thanks.
Paul |
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RIKERBCFC
Joined: 22 Mar 2016 Posts: 188
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Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2021 1:57 pm
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Mine was under £100 |
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martino
Joined: 21 Jun 2011 Posts: 2166 Location: Beautiful downtown Goostrey, Cheshire
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PaulRStoke
Joined: 01 Jan 2012 Posts: 139 Location: Stoke-on-Trent
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grantham
Joined: 20 Mar 2009 Posts: 1026
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