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M60
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Pablo2019



Joined: 07 Jul 2019
Posts: 107

PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 4:13 pm 
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This is the strangest thread ever, what on earth is going on?
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HM_WBA



Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 4:32 pm 
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This is a con. M60 have been delinquent throughout, ignoring e-mails, holding onto cash, taking months to deliver. Now they go bust and claim they have made complete refunds. That is a blatant lie. "If not, contact your credit card company" -- and if you used a debit card? Theft, pure and simple.
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Dorking



Joined: 05 Feb 2010
Posts: 2226

PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:27 am 
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M60 operated what is a very difficult service to do.

Making a profit margin on current (modern) programmes is very difficult because once a game has happened, they are all over ebay.

Getting people to buy at circa £7 (once you add on postage) is mainly going to interest to people wanting to pre-order.

Modern programmes are usually thick and heavy to post, hence the usual cost (and that is with a pretty small profit margin)

So unless you are obtaining the programmes at a discount somehow (bulk from publishers?) it's a tough business to make a profit on, particularly if people claim copies never arrived or arrived damaged (which does matter for this product).

Big Match programmes (Finals, Internationals etc) might be an area where discounts can be obtained for bulk purchase, but I suspect many clubs just sell at cover price, and so margins for reselling are tiny.

Competition from ebay is fierce - for example at Arsenal some people (fans and stewards) can get hold of plentiful amounts of spare programmes in hospitality 'for free' - ie everybody gets one, and there are piles left over afterwards too as you leave. So those programmes can be sold at very competitive prices compared to the cover price. And also as soon as a game is played, some people will sell programmes alongside the teamsheet, making that a more attractive purchase.

M60s niche was print from digital. All of their print from digital programmes that I got were well produced, glossy and pretty much as good as the real thing. And certainly as good as you could get considering with digotal only clubs, there is no 'real' programme to hunt down a copy of.

The challenge with print from digital is having reasonable production turnaround times. You want to get as many orders in as possible, but still get the item out to people pretty quickly. People don't want to wait months, and be chasing, or even wondering if it is lost in the post etc, so good communication should be vital for this sort of service.

Of course if you are trying to organise print from digital, it must be a faff, every week probably a dozen different issues, all needing printing in different quantities.

Printaprogramme do it very well, fast turnaround, and you can order as little as 1 copy.

Speed, reliablility as as important as the quality of the item itself of course.

I wouldn't like to speculate on the reasons for M60 calling it a day, there are probably multiple reasons.

I do believe it is an incredibly tough business, very hard work. Long hours a killer.
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colchestersid



Joined: 08 Mar 2009
Posts: 529

PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:44 am 
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It's a difficult one

On the one hand I sympathise with anyone who has lost money here

On the other I still think that 99.99% of programme collecting transactions "work" and that the occasional loss is to be expected. In 40 years of collecting I have only been stiffed twice - one was a £12 programme which never arrived and the other was a ticket I bought from Italy (£100 or so) which, when I got round to looking closely, was obviously a reproduction.

So, two duff transactions out of maybe 10,000 programmes & tickets bought and sold, I'm pretty happy with that.

M60 doesn't feel like Andy Lane revisited, I think they did their best and ended up losing money - when that happens you'll get creditors but, given the type of programmes they were selling, I doubt any one collector is likely to be seriously out of pocket

Doesn't make it right of course but doesn't feel like a con either
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Tynie Topics



Joined: 26 Nov 2009
Posts: 3400

PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 12:46 pm 
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HM_WBA wrote:
This is a con. M60 have been delinquent throughout, ignoring e-mails, holding onto cash, taking months to deliver. Now they go bust and claim they have made complete refunds. That is a blatant lie. "If not, contact your credit card company" -- and if you used a debit card? Theft, pure and simple.


Just on this particular point, if a refund has been issued and not received, your credit card company can raise a chargeback to get your money back for non receipt of goods.

If you paid by debit card, your bank can't do anything at all and it's upto the vendor to sort it out.
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martino



Joined: 21 Jun 2011
Posts: 2069
Location: Beautiful downtown Goostrey, Cheshire

PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 2:28 pm 
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You can claim for payments made using a debit card.

My father in law paid for a holiday using a debit card and the Bank refunded him the lot when he made a claim under chargeback when the travel Company went bust.

The attached link provides details:

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/somethings-gone-wrong-with-a-purchase/getting-your-money-back-if-you-paid-by-card-or-paypal/
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Tynie Topics



Joined: 26 Nov 2009
Posts: 3400

PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 3:44 pm 
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martino wrote:
You can claim for payments made using a debit card.

My father in law paid for a holiday using a debit card and the Bank refunded him the lot when he made a claim under chargeback when the travel Company went bust.

The attached link provides details:

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/somethings-gone-wrong-with-a-purchase/getting-your-money-back-if-you-paid-by-card-or-paypal/


Interesting, thanks!
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HM_WBA



Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 4:57 pm 
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That's very useful re the debit card.
The amounts are not that large, but it is the principle. M60 just take in pdfs and pay a printer to print them. It's not rocket science. They pay the printer and you get the programme, or they don't, and you get a refund. Best of all, they get all the cash in advance and then decide to print or not. It's not just incompetence on their part, it's dishonesty.
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Retrosmith



Joined: 28 Apr 2009
Posts: 78

PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:48 pm 
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M60 programmes from the outset has been awful. 4 months for one programme and some of the excuses on the website were pure garbage. If people were ill that is fair enough but most I suspect excuses for an inexcusable lack of customer service from a piss poor company. If anybody wants evidence more than happy to provide some of the of lame excuses I got from them. Most emails to be fair remained unanswered but got an occasional reply when I pushed but always more bullshit and false promises that failed to materialise. Lets hope we can all find a more reliable honest company going forward for e-programme printing as these were only ever jokers. Still awaiting my Scarborough v Grantham programme I ordered and paid for 10 weeks ago as an example of the 14 day delivery promise......
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sharrowblade
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Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 3501
Location: Beautiful Downtown Bramall Lane

PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2021 10:12 am 
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I must say that I'e never had any problems with M60 programmes.

However, I am still waiting for 2 x Swansea v Sheffield United which were ordered in early August a week before the game, I make that 90 days Sad
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Super Hoopy



Joined: 19 Apr 2021
Posts: 86
Location: London

PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2021 10:34 am 
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I must say that I think I must've been one of the very lucky ones when it comes to using M60.
In the past 16 months I ordered four programmes from them, one was delayed for a few weeks but all arrived in the end of the quality you would associate with the producing clubs.
I feel sorry for those that are out of pocket and hope that a fruitful resolution will eventually take place.
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RIKERBCFC



Joined: 22 Mar 2016
Posts: 150

PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2021 9:12 am 
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Web site has gone.
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se20blue



Joined: 21 Jul 2014
Posts: 753

PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2021 10:17 am 
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How many forum members have received refunds for items not supplied ?
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RIKERBCFC



Joined: 22 Mar 2016
Posts: 150

PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2021 10:35 am 
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No refund yet being dealt with by my credit card company as of last Wednesday.
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HM_WBA



Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2021 9:30 pm 
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That's what I mean about a con. There are no refunds because he has pocketed the cash and not delivered the goods.
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PaulRStoke



Joined: 01 Jan 2012
Posts: 125
Location: Stoke-on-Trent

PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2021 1:40 pm 
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RIKERBCFC wrote:
No refund yet being dealt with by my credit card company as of last Wednesday.


Was your order enough to qualify for a Section 75 refund, or are your company dealing with amounts lower than £100?

My refund would not be covered by Section 75 Sad

Thanks.

Paul
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RIKERBCFC



Joined: 22 Mar 2016
Posts: 150

PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2021 1:57 pm 
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Mine was under £100
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martino



Joined: 21 Jun 2011
Posts: 2069
Location: Beautiful downtown Goostrey, Cheshire

PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2021 6:33 pm 
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The attached link states:

"You should ask for your money back using 'chargeback' if you:

paid with a debit card or charge card

paid with a credit card and you can't use Section 75"

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/somethings-gone-wrong-with-a-purchase/getting-your-money-back-if-you-paid-by-card-or-paypal/
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PaulRStoke



Joined: 01 Jan 2012
Posts: 125
Location: Stoke-on-Trent

PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2021 8:17 pm 
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Thanks RIKERBCFC and martino Clap
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grantham



Joined: 20 Mar 2009
Posts: 940

PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:23 pm 
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Seen this tweet today from a Fulham collector:

Quote:
Looks like M60 programmes have gone bust. Chased up my outstanding printed copies of @BristolCity v @FulhamFC programme today only to receive E Mail regarding company going into administration. Sad times when you cannot have a permanent record of a game you attended.

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