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RAF Team 1945

 
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Flaming Pie



Joined: 26 Nov 2016
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 11:25 am 
Post subject: RAF Team 1945
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The photo has a Denmark stamp on the back. Hard to pick out the ground from the picture. Don’t think the RAF sent a team to Denmark in 1945. I know they played some games in Scotland during this era, but Bill Shankly was usually in the RAF line-up. Don’t think it’s an English venue Has anyone any ideas on the ground and what game it was? Also, from L to R back -row can pick out Franklin,Rooke, Hardwick and Frank Soo in suit . Front - row L to R Matthews, Burgess, Mortensen. Can anyone name some of the others? Many thanks.
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Pete’s Picture Palace
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 1:01 pm 
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Keeper may be Jimmy Cowan? Though he was only 19 in 1945. Does the stamp say 1945?

Might help if you scanned the stamp on here too.
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Flaming Pie



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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 3:06 pm 
Post subject: RAF Team 1945
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Thanks Pete, finding it very hard to upload a picture at the moment. The seller seemed to think it is 1945. The stamp on the back is not very clear . Will have a closer look when it arrives. Researching it from the add pics at the moment.
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Pete’s Picture Palace
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 3:56 pm 
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It will be interesting finding out why he thinks it's 1945. Thanks for uploading that stamp, there are a lot of 40's/50's photos around with a British stamp (eg Reuters) and then a second, perhaps later, stamp by a Scandinavian agency. I wondered if it was one of those, but it doesn't look like it.

Let's wait till you get the original.
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Flaming Pie



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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 5:38 pm 
Post subject: RAF Team 1945
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Pete, don’t think the goalie is Jimmy Cowan. Thought it might have been Bert Williams, who was in the RAF, but not sure. Notice the goalie has got a big badge on his jersey, as opposed to the RAF emblem on the other players shirts. Perhaps he was a local keeper( Scottish?) who stepped in last minute? Didn’t realise that Stan Mortensen turned out for both England and Wales during these wartime matches. He took the field of play for an injured Wales player during one of the games.
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Rocky



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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 8:29 pm 
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I think the big badge on the goalkeepers shirt may read RAF FA. Here's a very blurred image.



The squad for the 1945 Scottish tour is listed below and did include Bill Shankly. Looking at match reports in the BNA he did play in some of the games.



Regarding the team pic in the opening post, I believe the player at the back between Hardwick and A.N.Other is possibly Micky Fenton (to the right of Hardwick)

Another team pic from the Scottish tour can be found via the following link.

https://www.thenationalfootballcollection.org.uk/raf-tour-of-scotland-1945-photograph/
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Flaming Pie



Joined: 26 Nov 2016
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 9:38 am 
Post subject: RAF Team 1945
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Thanks Rocky, great research by you as always. It does look like it’s the post -war tour of Scotland. Still don’t think it’s Bert Williams in the picture, even though he is named in the tour party. The photo with Shankly in the line-up is interesting . Looks like Arthur Askey in RAF uniform front row. Perhaps he talked the great man into coming to Liverpool a few years later
Laughing
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Rocky



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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 10:11 am 
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I’ve delved a little further into that Scottish tour and perhaps the picture may have been taken elsewhere. I’ll drop you a Pm.

Meanwhile the stamp on the reverse looks to be 'Hauerslev Atelier' from Copenhagen.
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Flaming Pie



Joined: 26 Nov 2016
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 11:36 am 
Post subject: RAF Team 1945
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Thanks very much Rocky, so it might not be the Scottish tour. Perhaps they did a brief European tour? I know they played some games in Malta, but l don’t know if the calibre of team in Malta was as strong as the one in this photo. I remember picking up an old Army Team photo with the Everton goalie Ted Sager in it. The match was in Germany. There was an interview with him somewhere and he was naming lots of top players who played in these type of matches. When these wartime photos turn up on eBay I’m surprised that they don’t seem to sell for much.
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Rocky



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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 8:52 pm 
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It would appear that there was an RAF Scandinavian tour in 1946 rather than 1945. I found this snippet.



I understand the bulk of the squad sailed from Newcastle to Norway on 18th May '46. I found reference to one fixture v a Swedish Xl on 25.05.46 in Stockholm. However I would think there would have been more than one fixture on a tour.
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Pete’s Picture Palace
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 9:16 pm 
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Albert Brown being the one and only Sailor Brown, of Charlton, Forest & Villa.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailor_Brown
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Flaming Pie



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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 8:32 am 
Post subject: RAF Team 1945
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Thanks Rocky and Pete, two more names to add to the line-up. Micky Fenton in suit behind Hardwick and Sailor Brown in suit next to Frank Soo. I feel l should know the player front - row in kit far right , but the name hasn’t come to me yet. Thought it might have been Albert Geldard, but he was in the army.
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New Forest



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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 12:37 pm 
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The goalkeeper looks like Ted Ditchburn of 'Spurs. His first England cap was 1949 but he played in several war-time games from 1944.
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Pete’s Picture Palace
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 12:47 pm 
Post subject: Re: RAF Team 1945
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Flaming Pie wrote:
Thanks Rocky and Pete, two more names to add to the line-up. Micky Fenton in suit behind Hardwick and Sailor Brown in suit next to Frank Soo. I feel l should know the player front - row in kit far right , but the name hasn’t come to me yet. Thought it might have been Albert Geldard, but he was in the army.


Could be Don Welsh of Charlton?

https://www.google.com/search?q=don+welsh&tbm=isch&chips=q:don+welsh,g_1:charlton+athletic&rlz=1C1FKPE_en-GBGB937GB937&hl=en-US&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjspeG9ysbwAhUINBoKHa6GBpUQ4lYoAHoECAEQGA&biw=1007&bih=608#imgrc=_1ZdEMwq6mSFCM
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ndg1860



Joined: 27 Aug 2020
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 2:09 pm 
Post subject: Re: RAF Team 1945
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Flaming Pie wrote:
Thanks Rocky and Pete, two more names to add to the line-up. Micky Fenton in suit behind Hardwick and Sailor Brown in suit next to Frank Soo. I feel l should know the player front - row in kit far right , but the name hasn’t come to me yet. Thought it might have been Albert Geldard, but he was in the army.


Only been watching this on the side. There is a whole Facebook page for Frank Soo from which there is a web page and e-mail address to head to, all in relation to the Frank Soo Foundation.

https://www.facebook.com/FrankSooFoundation

Perhaps they may be able to assist.
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Flaming Pie



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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 2:28 pm 
Post subject: RAF Team 1945
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Thanks ndg1860, Pete and New Forest. Will look into the Frank Soo suggestion. Frank’s story is really interesting, the first England international of Chinese origin. Don’t think it’s Don Welsh Pete. I think he was in the army . New Forest, you’re correct, looks like the goalie is Ted Ditchburn, particularly as he was in the RAF.
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New Forest



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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 3:42 pm 
Post subject: Re: RAF Team 1945
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Flaming Pie wrote:
Thanks ndg1860, Pete and New Forest. Will look into the Frank Soo suggestion. Frank’s story is really interesting, the first England international of Chinese origin. Don’t think it’s Don Welsh Pete. I think he was in the army . New Forest, you’re correct, looks like the goalie is Ted Ditchburn, particularly as he was in the RAF.


Saw Ted playing at the very end of his career.
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