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West Ham United v Man United 1926-7 Tonight on Ebay £645!
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West Ham United v Man United 1926-7 Tonight on Ebay £645!

 
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manchesterunitedman1



Joined: 17 Jan 2010
Posts: 3121
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 9:34 pm 
Post subject: West Ham United v Man United 1926-7 Tonight on Ebay £645!
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Can anyone explain this at all?. I bid 365.09 today and was beaten out of sight by 2 other bidders-Fair Enuff but the winners has paid an astronomical amount as the condition was not great-i had reservations but thought i would try my luck.

On seeing the auction was Private one that always sends out the warning bells and the seller is repuatable and sells mostly under normal method, only if MU or another ultra collectable club is concerned does he shift to Private, so this is the bidding pattern. It took 5 days before the first bid which was the starter, a cynic would say that is why u have a private auction so it can be tinkered with and no one can tell-just saying!, so tell me how this all pans out because i am not seeing it!.

private listing - bidder identity protected £645.00 11 May 2021 at 6:32:27pm BST
private listing - bidder identity protected £375.09 11 May 2021 at 6:32:27pm BST
manchesterunitedman1 £365.09 11 May 2021 at 6:32:27pm BST
private listing - bidder identity protected £645.00 11 May 2021 at 6:32:27pm BST
private listing - bidder identity protected £625.00 11 May 2021 at 6:32:26pm BST
private listing - bidder identity protected £312.00 11 May 2021 at 6:32:26pm BST
private listing - bidder identity protected £302.00 11 May 2021 at 6:32:26pm BST
private listing - bidder identity protected £274.00 11 May 2021 at 6:32:26pm BST
private listing - bidder identity protected £269.00 11 May 2021 at 4:02:36pm BST
private listing - bidder identity protected £257.35 11 May 2021 at 4:02:36pm BST
private listing - bidder identity protected £252.35 11 May 2021 at 5:59:39pm BST
private listing - bidder identity protected £238.00 11 May 2021 at 4:02:36pm BST
private listing - bidder identity protected £233.00 9 May 2021 at 7:27:05am BST
private listing - bidder identity protected £225.00 9 May 2021 at 7:27:05am BST
Starting price £225.00 4 May 2021 at 6:32:32pm BST
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colchestersid



Joined: 08 Mar 2009
Posts: 491

PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 7:44 am 
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Bob's Programmes (the seller here) sell all their auctions listings as private

Over the last few weeks they've been selling the best West Ham pre war collection I've seen on the market in years. Prices have varied but all had reasonable starting points and I've picked up some items at well under my maximum bid. The ones where I've been outbid have been the usual suspects - Chelsea, Spurs Manchester United

I had a cheeky bid on the Manchester United one yesterday (£269) but never expected to be successful. I share Leslie's aversion generally to private bidding but nothing to see here - just a rare programme featuring two well collected clubs receiving 4 bids in the last few seconds

Only actual bids (not automatic bids generated up to a bidder's maximum) are shown. Automatic bids may be placed days or hours before a listing ends

private listing - bidder identity protected £645.00 11 May 2021 at 6:32:27pm BST
private listing - bidder identity protected £365.09 11 May 2021 at 6:32:27pm BST
private listing - bidder identity protected £625.00 11 May 2021 at 6:32:26pm BST
private listing - bidder identity protected £302.00 11 May 2021 at 6:32:26pm BST
sidneyl88 £269.00 11 May 2021 at 4:02:36pm BST
private listing - bidder identity protected £252.35 11 May 2021 at 5:59:39pm BST
private listing - bidder identity protected £233.00 9 May 2021 at 7:27:05am BST
Starting price £225.00 4 May 2021 at 6:32:32pm BST
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manchesterunitedman1



Joined: 17 Jan 2010
Posts: 3121
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 7:57 am 
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colchestersid wrote:
Bob's Programmes (the seller here) sell all their auctions listings as private

Over the last few weeks they've been selling the best West Ham pre war collection I've seen on the market in years. Prices have varied but all had reasonable starting points and I've picked up some items at well under my maximum bid. The ones where I've been outbid have been the usual suspects - Chelsea, Spurs Manchester United

I had a cheeky bid on the Manchester United one yesterday (£269) but never expected to be successful. I share Leslie's aversion generally to private bidding but nothing to see here - just a rare programme featuring two well collected clubs receiving 4 bids in the last few seconds

Only actual bids (not automatic bids generated up to a bidder's maximum) are shown. Automatic bids may be placed days or hours before a listing ends

private listing - bidder identity protected £645.00 11 May 2021 at 6:32:27pm BST
private listing - bidder identity protected £365.09 11 May 2021 at 6:32:27pm BST
private listing - bidder identity protected £625.00 11 May 2021 at 6:32:26pm BST
private listing - bidder identity protected £302.00 11 May 2021 at 6:32:26pm BST
sidneyl88 £269.00 11 May 2021 at 4:02:36pm BST
private listing - bidder identity protected £252.35 11 May 2021 at 5:59:39pm BST
private listing - bidder identity protected £233.00 9 May 2021 at 7:27:05am BST
Starting price £225.00 4 May 2021 at 6:32:32pm BST


Sid, No they do not sell all as private, only the items that invlove the well collected clubs or a genuine scarcity or whjere they know the items will get fought over.

Why have a Private Auction?-why hide the bidders even though they are encrypted-come on Why?-because a seller can if they wish manipulate the bidding-top and bottom.

I am fully aware how bidding works Sid but you cannot convince me that all these bidders are from individuals with no connection to the seller.
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colchestersid



Joined: 08 Mar 2009
Posts: 491

PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 8:16 am 
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Like this do you mean?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/bfl/viewbids/144028900633?item=144028900633&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2565

I've just checked a dozen of their lowest priced, sold lots - all were private listings
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Posh1959



Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Posts: 1168

PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 9:08 am 
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All of Bob and Rose Winstanleys eBay auctions are private listings and have been for as long as I can remember. They are genuine people would not shill bid. I’m not keen on private listings but have no problem whatsoever with theirs. Your bid is too low, programme has sold for more than £600 in the past at auction.


Last edited by Posh1959 on Wed May 12, 2021 9:17 am; edited 2 times in total
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Super Hoopy



Joined: 19 Apr 2021
Posts: 61
Location: London

PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 9:10 am 
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When I sell on ebay I always list with private bidding and the reason I do it for is to protect the identities of bidders.
Even though without private bidding the bidders id is encrypted in a way, you can still sometimes work out who a winning bidder was. If like me you collect QPR you tend to know who the hard core collectors are and despite encryption still know who they are, at least I seem to be able to...
Now, whilst I'm quite sanguine about losing out on something, someone may not feel the same way and may be able to contact the winning bidder if their ebay id is not hidden.
It happened to me many times in the past and still continues to happen now.
As for the price some programmes are going for now, we'll that's the time we are living in.
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manchesterunitedman1



Joined: 17 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 9:21 am 
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colchestersid wrote:
Like this do you mean?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/bfl/viewbids/144028900633?item=144028900633&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2565

I've just checked a dozen of their lowest priced, sold lots - all were private listings


Maybe I stand to be corrected, i was aware at one point all their listings were not Private less a few selected ones that involved potential higher ticket items.
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To see 18,000+ original images relating to Newton Heath & Manchester Utd 1878-2021 then visit www.flickr.com/photos/manchesterunitedman1/sets to see entire uploads.

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manchesterunitedman1



Joined: 17 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 9:31 am 
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Posh1959 wrote:
All of Bob and Rose Winstanleys eBay auctions are private listings and have been for as long as I can remember. They are genuine people would not shill bid. I’m not keen on private listings but have no problem whatsoever with theirs. Your bid is too low, programme has sold for more than £600 in the past at auction.


I have known them both for a long time also and have spent a good few quid with them on and off ebay via their website and yes i would say they are "good people"
My beef is with Private Auctions full stop as they are there for less scrupulous individuals to take advantage, the official line about not letting bidders see who is doing what is in my opinion a poor attempt as years ago Ebay put paid to this by encrypting everyone.

Why would any dealer use Private Auctions-why do they care who bids.

I do not intend getting involved in a war of words with you about this, it is my opinion of which i am entitled too and i think it is also similar for many other collectors re Private Auctions.

Yes similar items have sold for that price in the past at Auction with commissions, but in a number of cases sometimes they do not reach the same heights on Ebay, not always but sometimes.

We are in agreement with Bob and Rose for sure but i simply like to see transparency on the bids. Now you have a good day.
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kcs



Joined: 29 Dec 2008
Posts: 1633
Location: Ashford, Kent

PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 9:42 am 
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Rose Winstanley is a very reputable seller, and think you probably owe her an apology for your slanderous comments, hinting that underhand tactics are being used without any evidence what so ever.

A couple of recent prices for you involving West Ham v Manchester United for you:

26/27 Sold at Sportingold April 2017 for £650 plus commission £780
27/28 Sold at Sportingold June 2017 for £820 plus commission ££1000
28/29 Sold at Sportingold October 2020 for £800 plus commission £970

Given that the total price 4 years ago was £780, I would suggest that given the condition that £645 was a fair price.

Private bidders - nothing wrong with this, especially from TRUSTED sellers that might not want the world to know who is buying what.
What's the difference between an offers list, an auction house (via online bidding) and a private bidder on eBay?
None of the buyers are necessarily known.

Does that mean all the above avenues are corrupt?

And now you don't want a war of words because you know you are wrong!!
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manchesterunitedman1



Joined: 17 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 10:27 am 
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kcs wrote:
Rose Winstanley is a very reputable seller, and think you probably owe her an apology for your slanderous comments, hinting that underhand tactics are being used without any evidence what so ever.

A couple of recent prices for you involving West Ham v Manchester United for you:

26/27 Sold at Sportingold April 2017 for £650 plus commission £780
27/28 Sold at Sportingold June 2017 for £820 plus commission ££1000
28/29 Sold at Sportingold October 2020 for £800 plus commission £970

Given that the total price 4 years ago was £780, I would suggest that given the condition that £645 was a fair price.

Private bidders - nothing wrong with this, especially from TRUSTED sellers that might not want the world to know who is buying what.
What's the difference between an offers list, an auction house (via online bidding) and a private bidder on eBay?
None of the buyers are necessarily known.

Does that mean all the above avenues are corrupt?

And now you don't want a war of words because you know you are wrong!!


Chill Kenny

Read what i originally wrote-my beef is with Private Auctions, i have not come out and said they were shill bidding, i said "a cynic" could put that together. Rose and Bob are as I have already stated good people but i cannot understand why a dealer cares one iota who buys their stuff so why is there any need to hide identities.

There have been over the years too many sellers who abuse the Private Bidding and lots that do not of course.

Originally i was questioning but perhaps did not state clearly enough that it looked as the graph i posted showing as there were higher bids under mine and of course over it, maybe as all the bids were arriving in a matter of seconds literally it shows up as this?.

Anyway, They got a great price and one buyer will be pleased and the under bidder miffed-but that is how it goes.

Time to move on
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Grumpypants



Joined: 09 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 10:54 am 
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Never had any real opinions on 'private bidders', but can you tell me why it matters to knowing the identites of the some or all of the bidders involved??
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Posh1959



Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 10:58 am 
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Grumpypants wrote:
Never had any real opinions on 'private bidders', but can you tell me why it matters to knowing the identites of the some or all of the bidders involved??


That is a very valid point, who cares who buys what as long as the bidding is legitimate.

One thing that annoys me is the pathetic people who contact sellers asking them to end the auction early, usually to try and get a bargain. When I sell on eBay I always state please do not ask me me to end auctions early. It certainly doesn’t stop them, their offers have always been far lower than the end price.

I am sure Rose received these kind of pleas for this particular item.


Last edited by Posh1959 on Wed May 12, 2021 11:45 am; edited 2 times in total
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kcs



Joined: 29 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 11:09 am 
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manchesterunitedman1 wrote:

Originally i was questioning but perhaps did not state clearly enough that it looked as the graph i posted showing as there were higher bids under mine and of course over it, maybe as all the bids were arriving in a matter of seconds literally it shows up as this?.


My best guess here is that the bidder who won placed an earlier bid than you, which would have registered because it would have pushed the current highest bid.

You (can others) then bid and this is shown, but albeit lower - it was still after the original high bid - meaning that the price matches your bid and and other bids etc.

It could well be that the same bidder put in a later bid close to the end time because they were close to being out bid....

I think eBay used to show bids on from high to low, but now show them based on time I think - I agree with you (rare I know) that the way bidding is shown is not always straight forward and can need deciphering at times!
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cardiff55



Joined: 22 Jun 2009
Posts: 518

PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 12:15 pm 
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Thankfully I am not a fan of West ham or Manchester United (in a collecting sense of course). The money some people have is staggering. Mind you i would spend like that if i could.

I do not like private listings and tend to stay away from them usually , unless I know the seller. A friend of mine does it, for average programmes worth just a few pounds. I know one or two seller who sell run of the mill stuff which goes for high prices via private listings, not huge amounts, maybe £5-10 of lots of items on the same day, when there are lots of the exact same programmes listed for £1-3 with other sellers. So that raises my eyebrows!

But I do know of listings where sellers have had their mates bid items up not without the need to have private listings. So I think that trick can be used anyway. That looks more genuine though. And of course some programmes sell for a high price where two or three bidders are after it. I sold a Backpass Magazine recently for £42! I had another copy and sold that two weeks late for about £8.

There again some strange prices have been raised recently.
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manchesterunitedman1



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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 4:56 pm 
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To conclusively put an end to this posting that i originally made I wish to say that I had commented as to the fine reputations of both Rose & Bob earlier in the posting when i stated this:

I have known them both for a long time also and have spent a good few quid with them on and off ebay via their website and yes i would say they are "good people"

I have further explained why I posted due to the crazy way a bid which was nearly 300 MORE than i offered was below my Bid-i may not have explained myself clearly at first but i did further on with another post.

In conclusion I feel it is important that there is absolutely no inference as to the good character of Rose & Bob Winstanley from myself and that any talk of shill bidding was not intended or meant towards them both and if any hint of such an issue has "appeared" to be that way then for that alone i apologise to them both and i uphold their good name.
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paulobee



Joined: 10 Mar 2017
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 11:20 am 
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Then delete your post.

Sometimes, private bidding goes well. In this instance you lost out. Then you have an issue with it.

I know Bob and Rose too, being Brentford supporters. Your first post suggests you distrust the results. The you back track.

Just accept you lost out.
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