Football Programmes Centre

Pete’s Picture Palace

With the news that the legendary Gordon Banks is 80 today, it started me thinking - was he really England's best-ever keeper? I know what my opinion is, but I thought I'd ask you guys to discuss.

I give you 4 options - I accept that there could be more but I personally don't think any others come into this league. In alphabetical order:-

Gordon Banks

Ray Clemence

David Seaman

Peter Shilton

And how do they all compare with this one?

Pat Jennings

Let's have a frank and fair debate on this because one thing is true, we were lucky to have been alive to witness these guys in action every week.

Flaming Pie · Joined: 26 Nov 2016 Posts: 975

Not English, but the best shot - stopper l ever saw was Neville Southall.He must have saved the Blues many points when they were winning things. .Young Pickford at Everton reminds me of him.Out of your photos Pete, lwould plump for Jennings.Apparently ,Frank Swift was special.

Peterborough Red · Joined: 23 Aug 2017 Posts: 6

Gordon Banks number 1

Shilton, Jennings= number2

The other two should not be mentioned in same breath.

whosbrianwilson · Joined: 08 Aug 2011 Posts: 245

Agree totally with Peterborough red.
Banks was head and shoulders above the rest and like Shilton, played most of his football with dodgy club defenders in front. Seaman was fortunate to play behind the best club defence ever. Clemence ok but no superstar.

beaudog · Joined: 06 Nov 2011 Posts: 300 Location: st11 9rh

I had the privilege of watching Gordon Banks after his move from Leicester until he was forced into an early retirement. In my opinion he was the greatest goal keeper I saw. He made many memorable saves and yet for the most part he was unspectacular and his positional sense was superb. Out of the many important saves that are well recorded and played his saving intervention in the last minute of the League cup final in 1972 when he thwarted the Chelsea attacker, who was given a delightful back-pass by Stoke,s mickey Bernard. He sprinted from his goal and with immaculate timing and bravery managed to win the ball. Happy birthday Gordon from one of the older Stokies.

manchesterunitedman1 · Joined: 17 Jan 2010 Posts: 3349 Location: United Kingdom

Frank Swift of Manchester City was regarded as England's greatest goalie at one time, but if you are going to talk post war only then my feeling is it has to be Gordon Banks-head shoulders above everyone else.

I was fortunate some years ago to buy his programme for the Chesterfield Youth v Manchester United Youth Cup Semi-Final in 1956

https://flic.kr/p/6o9gpY

Wave

_________________
To see 20,00++ original items relating to Newton Heath & Manchester Utd 1878-2023 then visit www.flickr.com/photos/manchesterunitedman1/sets to see entire uploads.

1000's more images to be uploaded, to view the latest uploads go to www.flickr.com/photos/manchesterunitedman1/

Click any images 23+ MILLION views to date to the Flickr site since 2007 growing every day. New Uploads weekly. Thank You to one & all for visiting!

Five and In · Joined: 15 Sep 2015 Posts: 1432 Location: Dawlish, Devon

Great question Pete.
England used to have a wealth of keepers in depth who hardly got a look in and many of them would walk into today's National team.
Joe Corrigan and Phil Parkes were especially unlucky to be around at the same time as Peter Shilton and Ray Clemence.

David Seaman was a good keeper, but not a great and I always felt he was iffy with long range efforts (Gazza, Koeman, Ronaldinho, the bloke from Macedonia etc.)

I always felt Shilton was a marginally better keeper than Banks, but there was a fag paper in it to be fair, and Banks definately had the edge in agility.

That said, I have to back Pat Jennings as the best British keeper I have seen.
I'm probably a little biased, but I did also see a huge amount of his time at Spurs first hand and saw what a superb keeper he was.

After he finished playing, I bumped into him on a few occasions as we lived in the same area and I can confirm that his hands were like a pair of shovels. Nod

New Forest · Joined: 05 Jun 2017 Posts: 151

Isn't it a bit like 'strictly' - Banksy, seven etc? Has anyone worked out the goals conceded against matches played for say the five listed above?

None of us would have seen legends such as Billy 'Fatty' Foulkes playing for Chelsea. How would he have matched up.

Leyton once had a keeper with a wooden leg!

littlewiggy · Joined: 07 Apr 2013 Posts: 1810 Location: Newport

The great Gordon Banks was just before my time sadly.
However many judges better than me say he was the best, so that's good enough for me.

In my lifetime, the two best British keepers were both non-English, in big Pat and the Bin Man (Nev), and in that order.

I may be a little biased, but like Ron Greenwood I find it hard to separate Shilton & Clemence. Both outstanding keepers in an era of fine English stoppers, but both had clear weaknesses too.

Shilton's penalty record for example was (and probably still is) the worst of any top goalkeeper. Did he ever save one?

Indeed, I always wondered what might have happened in 1990 in that semi against the Germans, had Bobby Robson had the audacity to bring Beasant on in the 119th minute, purely for the shoot out. Shilts, as expected, never got near any of them.

The sight of the long, awkward, gangly-looking Beasant galloping on would have at least given the penalty-confident Germans pause for thought.

Sadly we'll never know.
_________________
NEWPORT COUNTY & GENERAL FOOTY BADGES:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/newport-county-badges/albums

Flaming Pie · Joined: 26 Nov 2016 Posts: 975

Thought you would have gone for Elisha Scott , Wiggy. You must have seen the great elisha play during your Anfield days! Neville is a one -off. He posted his own Christmas message recently on the Echo site. A funny man. I like the story about him going on Howard Kendall ' s bonding sessions with the 1980s Everton team.While the rest of them were getting pissed, Neville would have a pot of tea. He never drank.

Pete’s Picture Palace · Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:02 pm Post subject:

In answer to one or two blokes, I'm aware of the likes of Frank Swift, Elisha Scott, Sam Hardy and Fatty Foulke but as I never saw them play (like you guys) it's hard to make that comparison.

Bit like comparing Don Bradman with Viv Richards. All you can do is look in the book.

And as regards the plethora of top keepers in the 60's and 70's.........

Bonetti, West, Montgomery, Grummitt, Stepney, Parkes (Walsall/QPR/WHU version), Jackson, Glazier..........

..all of whom would be ahead of Joe Hart.

Got to say though, my own favourite of the top 4 is Gordon Banks, closely followed by Pat Jennings. I reckon those 2 are a class above.

littlewiggy · Joined: 07 Apr 2013 Posts: 1810 Location: Newport

Flaming Pie wrote:

Thought you would have gone for Elisha Scott , Wiggy. You must have seen the great elisha play during your Anfield days! Neville is a one -off. He posted his own Christmas message recently on the Echo site. A funny man. I like the story about him going on Howard Kendall ' s bonding sessions with the 1980s Everton team.While the rest of them were getting pissed, Neville would have a pot of tea. He never drank.

Nah, I preferred the Flying Pig matey.

Very Happy

I've heard some brilliant Nev stories myself, none of which I could put here sadly!

Very funny bloke. Dry as a bone too.
_________________
NEWPORT COUNTY & GENERAL FOOTY BADGES:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/newport-county-badges/albums

Flaming Pie · Joined: 26 Nov 2016 Posts: 975

Another top Welsh goalie was Jack Kelsey. The first game l ever went to as a kid was Everton v Arsenal 1961.All l can remember about the game was this goalkeeper flying through the air pulling off what l thought were stunning saves. Years later l was lucky enough to spend a day with Joe Mercer. He lived not far from me in Hoylake.When l mentioned to Joe that my first football memory was this fantastic keeper Jack Kelsey ( a teammate of Mercer's at Arsenal) he frowned a little and said well Jack was certainly spectacular!

TheSorter! · Joined: 07 May 2016 Posts: 198

Best by a mile Gordon Banks. Worst by a mile Peter Bonetti !! We still remember the 1970 World Cup!! Shocked

DonQuixote2 · Joined: 05 Jun 2017 Posts: 63

New Forest wrote:

Isn't it a bit like 'strictly' - Banksy, seven etc? Has anyone worked out the goals conceded against matches played for say the five listed above?

None of us would have seen legends such as Billy 'Fatty' Foulkes playing for Chelsea. How would he have matched up.

Leyton once had a keeper with a wooden leg!

http://www.englandfootballonline.com/TeamGkprs/GkprsMstApps.html

DonQuixote2 · Joined: 05 Jun 2017 Posts: 63

I will probably have to go with Banks....

...but, Albemarle Swepstone (Corinthians et al) must have the best ever name of an England keeper.

sharrowblade · Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:21 pm Post subject:

As a kid, he was my favourite player, we rarely gave standing ovations to opposition players at Bramall Lane before the game, but he always got one out of sheer respect.

Some of the saves I used to witness were amazing, so I'm going with Big Pat.

It would have been interesting if he had been English.

Banks always came across as a gentleman but I didn't see to much of him.

Shilton edges Clemence for me, Clemence had the great gift of having nothing to do for 89 minutes and then making a match winning save, but felt he never quite captured his Liverpool form for his Country. I still can picture that Scotland goal at Wembley. Shilts played for England too long by the mid 80s he wasn't the same, but nobody can take away his pomp whilst playing under Clough

Although not a fan, its harsh suggesting Seaman was overrated playing behind a very good Arsenal defence, as far as I'm concerned he was part of that defence. A local Rotherham lad who did well for himself. I don't think he was as agile as the others and that ponytail, well enough said.

Its an interesting topic, with the damning conclusion that none of todays english keepers are barely worth a mention. Are their foreign counter parts really that much better? None are with the top sides...no disrespect intended to them but why is that? Tom Heaton, Nick Pope, Jordan Pickford, Jack Butland have all done well, and yet the Top 6 never appear to take that risk, Manchester City aside with Joe Hart, and he appears to have lost his way.

My lad used to train with Bournemouth's Aaron Ramsdale when he was at the Blades. It will be interesting to see how far this lad can go.
_________________
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sharrowblade/sets
A Sheffield United Programme guide

cfcmartin1965 · Joined: 29 Jan 2011 Posts: 533 Location: Middlesex

The best English keeper has to be Gordon Banks. The only one to have or ever likely to have won tbe World Cup.

I would also mention Eddie Niedzwiecki as a top Welsh keeper. Very brave goalie whose career was cruelly cut short by injury.

Karb · Joined: 21 Jan 2015 Posts: 462

Banks was before my time. Shilton was the best of the others listed

derby1884 · Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:46 am Post subject:

I'd probably put Ray Clemence just ahead of Gordon Banks.

Two League Championship medals but Colin Boulton never got a sniff of an international call-up.
Just shows how things have changed.
Nowadays any English 'keeper with a record like that would be a permanent fixture in the team.
_________________
http://www.flickr.com/photos/derby1884/sets/