REFEREES!!!!

[kenred]

After a week of critical matches ,and some apparent abysmal refereeing decisions,the Men in black as always are under scrutinity .As a former referee with Cheshire FA for 12 years,a player of amateur status for 25 years,and a spectator for 57 years,I like to think I have some knowledge of the great game of Football.I suppose some players of matches I refereed would disagree,and as a player I was a defender,which is in my opinion a bit easier than a forward in some respects.Refereeing is difficult ,and sometimes its an ordeal.The lonely man in Black(no linesmen except S-F and Finals in the Amateur games ) V 22 players ,(and spectators),and you know you cant win ,you just give honest ,split second decisions.You know after the match if you have had a good game or bad .The response of the players after the match with remarks ,handshakes ,comments give some indication .Referees get frustrated too!
The Chelsea game produced a poor officiating performance I would be the first to agree.The emotions of players disappointed after defeat is understandable,but how far is it permissible?
It sets bad examples to young viewers .eg Drogba,and Ballack,and their haranguing of the Ref was not good.Mind you most teams have done it on occasions,and I am not highlighting Chelsea as I think they should have had at least one penalty,and felt robbed I am sure
Sunday Morning football incidents ,and I have had a few ,make a lot of budding referees to pack it in,as they wont tolerate the abuse received .So eventually matches are played without an official .In the Manchester area there is a severe shortage of Refs,and as stated previously,many matches have no official in charge
Is technology the answer to sort out mistakes by the officials?
How many of Forum Members ,have refereed ,or would do it?
Penalties given that werent ,and some that were denied,offsides was he or wasnt he? Over the line ,or wasnt it?Should he have been sent off ,or not?Bad language acceptable ,or red cards for invective?
It is a very contentious topic,and I dont really know the answer in some cases.I do know though as a former Referee I have taken abuse for giving honest decisions ,and likewise I do understand from a former players point of view,and spectators also,referees do make many wrong decisions,and the frustration it causes .However we are all human ,and not infallible ,and is it acceptable? that is how Football is ,and you win some decisions ,and you lose some?Players make as many mistakes as the Ref!
I would really like to know other fans opinions,as it seems the problems are always going to be there in Football.

[Molineux Phil]

I like yourself have been a spectator for over 50 years,and re penos i have never seen a reff change his mind yet, so why argue.

[ToffeeDan]

Molineux Phil wrote:

I like yourself have been a spectator for over 50 years,and re penos i have never seen a reff change his mind yet, so why argue.

Except Alan Wiley at Stoke when he gave Everton one - correctly - then consulted his assistant - and awarded a free-kick outside the box.. Then again he's got form - he ignored a dreadful foul on Andy Johnson at Blackburn when the defender trampled on the back of his leg and gave nothing.

I could go on but, TBH I'd much rather they got it right more often, whoever the sides are - think Chelsea at Anfield when Styles made a ricket. There wouldn't be half as much dissent if the officials could use technology (whatever that means) or 4th official support. FIFA etc. keep citing this "not the same rule in park football" BS - well it's not the same rule in park tennis, rugby or cricket as it is at the higher levels. People are paid large sums of money to perform in these sports and spectators, paying similarly large sums of money to support their wages, have a right to expect the right decisions.

Then again, when did the authorities (in this instance FIFA/UEFA/FA) ever get much right - ticket allocation debate anyone*?


* how about a ballot for the worthies/how about other games instead of denying those who pay the lionsshare of the viewing costs. Might as well give 5,000 tickets to Sky TV eh?

[anfieldpurch]

Molineux Phil wrote:

I like yourself have been a spectator for over 50 years,and re penos i have never seen a reff change his mind yet, so why argue.

Liverpool Roma 2001. Shot by Roma off i think Babbel's arm he gives penalty then hell break loose he gives corner

How do i go about becoming a referee?

[ToffeeDan]

anfieldpurch wrote:

Molineux Phil wrote: I like yourself have been a spectator for over 50 years,and re penos i have never seen a reff change his mind yet, so why argue. Liverpool Roma 2001. Shot by Roma off i think Babbel's arm he gives penalty then hell break loose he gives corner How do i go about becoming a referee?

Firstly you need to be desensitised to the spiteful reaction of (up to)thousands of grown men who get pizzed off every time you may what is perceived to be a mistake.

[kcs]

Although not qualified I have ref'd a few games for a sunday league team I was associated with. I thoroughly enjoyed the experience and unfortunately due to other commitments could not take this further.

Through-out all of the games i ref'd there was always arguments or disagreements with my decisions, even from the team I was associated with, but at the end of the game the players came up to me and said well done you had a good game and also said ignore my comments. It's what we do.....

E.g. try to get in the refs head to make him/her change their mind in future games.

There seems to be a lot of comments on how bad the refs in Europe this week (in fairness I believe they were awful, being leeds i hate man u and chelsea) have been.

The process of getting to be a 'top' refereed requires you to go through quite a lengthy process with many observations/assessments taking place, therefore the premiership refs should be there?
Does the blame rest with the refs? or is it deeper and rest with the assessors?

Ultimately even the best get it wrong, Ronaldo does not score with every shot he has, likewise referees will get things wrong. Perhaps if the authorities allowed them to admit this in the public eye after the game then we would be more forgiven.

I also think Technology is the way forward.
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[Auchinleckian]

I have noticed a general decline in refereeing standards at the level of football that I watch, Scottish Junior, over the last few years. I don't know whwether or not this is genuinely mirrored in the professional game, north and south of the border, as I don't tend to watch the game barring MOTD highlights.

There is no doubt now, though, that referees are under the spotlight unlike ever before - pundits on the box, the press, the ridiculous Stan Collymore on Fivelive and his ilk, and many others.

The increasingly petty attitude of prima donna footballers, vastly over rated and over paid who think they are a breed apart. They actually think in their pea brained state of mind that they're important! When I saw the veins pumping in the likes of Roy Keane's neck when he berated referees for their "incompetence" not his, I felt nauseous. Ditto with the childish antics of Drogba, Ballack et al who were they to have a brain, or any kind of moral ethice, would understand what complete and utter prats they are. However, because they are modern day icons their behavious will be replicated on school pitches all over the country, encouraged by their pit bull owning, Sun reading, kebab eating numbskull fathers.

There needs to be a wholesale reassessment of refereeing in our national game. Referees should be more often seen, rather than heard. How often do you see a referee nowadays who is realtively anonymous, relying on an intelligent interpretation of the rules, rather than using them as a stick to beat both teams? How often do you see players at any level accept refereeing decisions unquestionably?

This reassessment needs to start at the very top - managers like Wenger who never see fouls committed by his own players; managers like Ferguson who has certainly encouraged the Keane like behaviour in the past to intimidate referees; others like Benitez who get involved in childish "mind games" with Ferguson that ferments anger both on and off the pitch. The main beneficiaries of all this type of behaviour are the red top newspapers, who actually think it's news and deserves headlines.

Refereeing is all about man management - respect has to be reciprocal between players and refs. Unfortunately, due to the obscene amounts of unjustified finance in the game at the moment the morons who play the game just can not comprehend that they need to be kept in place by someone who earns a pittance compared to them. It's why more and morepeople are leaving the seats of Premier League grounds to watch football at non league level - long may it continue, as things will never change until players are genuinely hurt in their paypackets.

P.S Yes, I am a grumpy old man, don't mind admitting it!!!

[Flackwell Lad]

Your right Kcs, video technology is the only way to sort the problem out. When one bad decision can mean the loss of millions of pounds, it makes sense to have a video ref as in rugby or a third umpire as in cricket on stand by, plus no fan will ever be able to say at the end of the match ' We woz robbed'

[Auchinleckian]

There really does seem to be a mindset among some fans about ecisions "costing millions of pounds" Can't folk see that this is the reason that OUR game has been corrupted by suckholing up to the likes of Rupert Murdoch? It's not sport anymore, it's big business. Your argument falls, I'm afraid, because for it to work it would have to be consistently applied. How would referees be able to justify questionable decisions in the non league game at all levels when they wouldn't have the finances for the technology in the first instance?
Human error is a part of all walks of life, and is usually something that evens itself out over the course of the season, unless you believe in ridiculous conspiracy theories like Gus Hiddink who thinks that UEFA didn't want an all Enlish final again, so the referee was deliberately against them. Why did he reduce Barca to 10 players if that were the case? As a neutral who viewed all the incidents, you could say that a different referee could have interpreted them differently. I didn't see any of the claims that were stonewallers though. The reactions happened because of the obscene riches on offer - at least Darren Fletcher had the presence to be sent off without reacting like a spoilt brat. He was a genuine professional, and should be applauded for his reaction.

[Flackwell Lad]

No argument here Auchinleckian, all I'm suggesting is a solution to fixing the problem. Surely it's not to much to ask that a penalty be given for an infringment inside the box rather than just outside, and what about the lino who cant quite tell if the ball crossed the line or not. It's not just about the money mate, it's also about the right team winning on the day because they deserved to and not because some crap ref gave a crap decision.

[anfieldpurch]

No seriously how do i go about becoming a ref then?

[Auchinleckian]

I think judging by some of the comments on here having a full frontal lobotomy is a pre requisite for becoming a referee. If you're genuinely interested, conatct your local Football Association who will be able to advise you appropriately.

[ForestMick]

Contact Lincolnshire FA, they will be able to tell you where the local referee's courses are, and what you need to do. I'd also contact your local council's sports devlopment unit, as they may grant aid courses, like we do in Nottingham. If not, I'd contact local football clubs, asking if they would be prepared to fund your course, in return for some refereeing for them when you pass.
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[James]

I do tend to argue the case for the refs, but some of the decision in that Chelsea game are hard to defend, that said the players need to show a more professional attitude, i know the FA brought in this respect campaign but because of the lack of respect shown to officials in the premier league and the top european competitions, the youngsters etc watch this and do the same at grass roots football and the sunday league games, which is where most of the people who become refs start off.

The amount of people who have officiated at grass roots level and then jacked it in because of the pathetic abuse they recieved from players (verbal and in some cases physical), they decided that instead of giving up a couple of hours of their weekend they'd rather be doing something wher they are shown the respect they deserve or spend time with their family or friends, it's due to this that there are very very limited numbers of officials coming through, therefore the the only ref's coming through will be sub-standard as the numbers are so low, so basically we have to put up with ref's who are unept due to the way they are treated on a weekly basis.

Another thing at the moment is every week Andy Gray will get all of his gadgets out on Skysports and spend 10/15 going through how poor the ref was, I think that this is pathetic, there is nothing he can do or say to change the decision of the ref, why don't the ref's post a 10/15 minute video each week of him, passing straight to an opponent, or missing an open goal from 2 yards or taking a shot that threatens the corner flag more than the goal post.

Drogba the other night shouting at the camera it's a disgrace, it's a disgrace, YES Didier i think it is a disgrace, your paid around £100,000 a week and over 180 minutes of football the only way you could break down an opponents defence was to demand and whinge about penalty deicsion's. I agree that sometimes players do have a case to complain to the ref, but what he did was by far and away above what is acceptable, Drogba is the one of the main men at Chelsea who highlights everything that is wrong with football as it is now, he constantly falls over and acts as though he is hurt, his play acting shoudl get him an oscar sometimes, he is constantly whinging and throwing out his toys, and you quite often see him running 50/60 to confront the ref where a deicsion has gone against Chelsea where the ref was standing 10 yards from the incident and Drogba at least 50 yards. He is not alone in this and most premiership teams have a couple of these players in their squads, all i can say is it just as well that i am not in charge of UEFA or the FA as some of these players would be booted fomr the league.

I'm a spurs fan and the amount of times i've seen one of our millionaire idiots taking a corner which goes directly to the first defender continue's to amaze me, I see sunday league guys putting in better corners, yet here we are premiership players on around £50k a year and can;t get the ball past the first defender, and then we come onto freekicks, the amount of freekicks you see from 18-35 yeards blasted into row EE of the stand is unbelievable, i'm sure some of the players would pass the blame onto the referee for there ineptitude.

The biggest problem is that we have a premier league full of spoilt brats and they think that if they throw a wobbly then they are in the right and if the ref doesn't agree with them then they should slate the ref during the game and in the post game interviews, the only people who can try to save the sport in this country is the FA but unfortunately they are also in on this mockery which we call our national game, the money has created a bunch of greedy petulant tarts, from the FA chiefs right through all the club ownership, managers, players etc as long as they have loads of money then they must be right and god forbid anyone give a decision against them.

One of the best examples of this petulant play is you watch any game and you see a player knock the ball out of play, it's clear it came off of him last, yet he turns round with arm in the air appealing for the throw in/corner/goal kick, when the ref makes the decision against him (THE CORRECT DECISION), what does the player do, put his arm down and get on with it, no they swing the arm and verbally abuse the ref, now ask yourself who in their right mind would want to put up with that every couple of minutes every weekend during the season I definately wouldn't, yes the ref's get paid but is the abuse they receive constantly worth the hassle, i think not.

I'm into Ice Hockey and there is a team on the Isle of Wight, during the past season they had a home game against Guildford which IOW won, Guildford fans weren;t happy about losing to IOW (as IOW are the bottom team and tbh suck, and before anyone goes into one, my mate is one of their team owners) on the ferry back to the mainland the thee match officials were also on the ferry and had to sit through verbal abuse being sent their way by the guildford fans who thought the ref's were against them, now i wasn't at the game but speaking to players from both Guildford and IOW they all said that the ref had a pretty decent game and he got the decisions correct. So why was he abused by the fans on the ferry?? Although can you imagine a football ref using public transport with a bunch of football fans particularly as it only takes one nut job to spark something off, amongst certain groups of fans.

[ToffeeDan]

Sometimes I get the impression that refs don't believe some players. It's level going into the last few minutes and the home striker falls in the box (or 0-1 and the losing team's player does likewise).. Going down in the box is a useful way to try to get your team the points!!

Some refs are also frightened (it seems) to give a penalty for stonewall handballs by defenders - or fouls by the home side if they are Man U/Chelsea/Liverpool/Arsenal. They can always bottle it and they often do.

[anfieldpurch]

ForestMick wrote:

Contact Lincolnshire FA, they will be able to tell you where the local referee's courses are, and what you need to do. I'd also contact your local council's sports devlopment unit, as they may grant aid courses, like we do in Nottingham. If not, I'd contact local football clubs, asking if they would be prepared to fund your course, in return for some refereeing for them when you pass.

Well ill be moving to Hucknall within the next few months so ill wait till then and then do it through Notts

[ForestMick]

When you do, give me a shout, because I work for the city council sports development unit, and we work in partnership with Notts FA, so it should be fairly easy to find you a course, and maybe some funding.
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[stodin]

anfieldpurch wrote:

ForestMick wrote: Contact Lincolnshire FA, they will be able to tell you where the local referee's courses are, and what you need to do. I'd also contact your local council's sports devlopment unit, as they may grant aid courses, like we do in Nottingham. If not, I'd contact local football clubs, asking if they would be prepared to fund your course, in return for some refereeing for them when you pass. Well ill be moving to Hucknall within the next few months so ill wait till then and then do it through Notts

Wooo, 2 miles away from me. I assume you will be getting yourself down to Watnall road to see the Mighty Yellows in the Unibond next season?

You could always come along to the game Vs FC United of Bury and abuse the mancs.

2 Hucknall fans are level 2 referees so I could always ask them for you